Re-usable Nappies - Want to be greener but help needed to get going

[Wills]

I've always wanted to be a little greener, unfortunately though with dd she was in disposables all the way. With only 5 weeks to go I'd really like to get myself kitted out to use re-usable but I'm completely lost as to where to start. Ideally I would like to find a company that clean them for me as I'm "not good" with pooh at the best of times hence why I failed first time round. I have a number of questions but would be grateful for any advice.

1. My dm is adament that disposable allow the baby's bottom to "breath" better thus preventing nappy rash. She's full of doom and gloom that if I use cloth nappies I will constantly be fighting the dreaded nappy rash. True/False.
2. There are sooo many different types and they are rather expensive - what in everyone's experience where best?
3. How do you go about finding a company to do the cleaning for you? Are they dependable? Do they supply the nappies or do you have to buy an initial load? (images of sewing names tags into nappies comes to mind).
4. If you are using a company to do the cleaning did you ever have qualms about using a piece of cloth that other babies could have poohed on?
5. Are cloth nappies any good for b/f babies? With dd her pooh was shooting out the ends and I get the impression that cloth nappies are far looser than dipsoable.
6. If you do clean your own - how the heck do you cope with that on top of everything else

Would very much like to hear from people who are using re-usable nappies to hear their experiences.

Erm, but if my memory serves me correctly there is no elastic up the back of a disposable - that's why they leak upwards instead of outwards.

Oh and dadslib, I am another one with cloth sanitary pads and a mooncup!

As Enid says, it's nice to have a man's point of view (there are a couple of other men around - seem to be staying well clear of nappy debates tho ) but not if you're just out for a row.

what on earths a mooncup? i, too, am intrigued.

anyways back to the sunject of nappy liner bins not smelling. do u not have a sense of smell? mine blinking reeks, i hate emptying it, i hate using it, but at least when the lid is down the smell is cintained, just when i have toi actually put a nappy in a gag. and yes i do disinfect it regulary, i've noticed on the nappy wrapper refills they now recommend using febreeze, the stuff that couldnt rid my trainers of their pong yet will apparently work on nappy smells. maybe i should squirt my kids with the stuff...........

and disposibles not leaking if u put them on right, every single day my dd2 ends up with poo up her back, i definatly know how to put on a nappy, just even if they are put on tightly they seem to bag slightly round the waist, and there is no way i can put them on any tighter.

so maybe soon i'll be joining these clothie fan mums.

Welcome Bobsdad, I, for one, like having dads on Mumsnet - adds a certain.....erm, something!

Misdee, the mooncup is a form of reusable sanitary protection, a cup worn internally - very cool they are too, do a search and you'll get loads of threads come up

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Just thought some of you might be interested in Leo Hickman's Search for an ethical lifestyle He's looking for greener life suggestions and has a five month old daughter...

To return to a question from the original poster on the upfront cost of them, my local council do a £30 cash-back on nappies, so I initially bought £60 worth and got half my money back and am now building up my stock a couple at a time. It doesn't give me enough to just do re-useable so I do some disposables, but reducing ammounts. I wash nappies with other stuff in the machine, so it's not an extra washload on it's own. I use mother-ease one size and LOVE them, as does dh. I thought that using a mix I would tend to the disposables, but actually, that's not the case.

I am v. squeamish and thought I'd hate the poo, but I find it easier and less smelly with the reusables than the disposables.

And to join in the great arguement - my professional life has brought me into very intimate contact with active and closed landfills and their contents over the last 10 years, and little biodegrades fully in timescales of decades - the conditions aren't right for rapid biodegradation, due to the need to prevent pollution leaking out. I've seen newspapers that have been in a landfill site for 30 years, and a basically sodden masses of paper, not degraded. While something might degrade well in theory, they don't in practice in actual landfill conditions. So my personal concern with throwing stuff away is one of volume, not biodegradability, unless I'm composting it myself or putting it in my septic tank.

Interesting article, WWW; it will good to find out the end result. I think I try my best to be green but it isn't always easy. I recently bought some runner beans, only to find that they have been imported from Zambia, of all places, which is ridiculous when runner beans grow perfectly well in the UK and don't have to be transported using tons of jet fuel and all the consequent pollution. I stopped separating out all my paper waste when I found it all gets thrown into landfill anyway. Luckily, my local council has recently improved its recycling facilities and has been rated no1 in Scotland for recycling - a pathetic 17%. I'm darned sure a lot more than 17% of my family's non-compostable waste is recylable.

I think we all have to make choices and do our best, taking into account our personal needs and the bigger picture. Look at this article on the Ecological Impact of Bottle Feeding . I wonder how many people take the green issues of feeding into account?

Having used both, personally (for my babies, not myself, you understand) I preferred disposable nappies to terries and didn't have any of the problems some folks have. For me, the convenience outweighs the green issues, just one more load of washing would be the straw that broke the camels back. I guess if I had a baby now, I'd consider using the modern clothies part-time - using disps when it suited circumstances.

Just in case everone thinks I'm a Philistine, I do use terries. They are wonderful to mop up dd's nosebleeds, much better than a disposable nappy and come in handy for all sorts of other sundry uses. I don't know about their biodegradabilty credentials. Some of mine (and some of my pram/cot linen) are more than 30 yrs old and still going strong!

Thank you for the compliment Dadslib. However just out of interest which nappy wrapper do you use? I used a Sangenic and although I suppose the smell was nicer than unwrapped dirty nappies it was still pretty gross. Is your baby very young? I found that before introducing solids the bin did a very good job but struggled after solids were introduced.

My new fridge is being delivered on Monday and is CFC free !

I made a decision a long time ago that if the world goes to pot environmentally it's a group decision; ie., I don't feel the need to go to heroic lengths when most folk don't.

But I'll do as much as I can comfortably....Since Dadslib asked:

We don't own a car. Deliberately planned where we live and how we live to minimise car use.

There's a place in Leicester that takes all of our old computer bits for rebuilding/redistribution.

Detergents: Use 50% soda crystals (which have less env. impact than detergents) in the wash.

Plead guilty on the plastic vacuum cleaner & fridge. Fridge was purchased 2nd hand, though. Only open the door when I have to. Try to sweep rather than vacuum, and turn off the fridge (& shower & clock radios & stereo, etc.) off whenever possible. Always turn off the PC at the wall because it goes into standby mode, otherwise (grrr). Only bought a freezer to store breastmilk because I was a milk donor; it's been turned off for months, now. Will sell it after next baby. Also, DH has managed to do own repairs to the VC, the washing machine, saving env. damage of buying new.

We save bath & dish-washing water for watering the garden & flushing the loo, too. We recycle about 70% of our household waste. There's so much that people can do if they're willing.

Our big sin is foreign trips; my family live thousands of miles away. Probably our otherwise green lifestyle just gets us back to being average.

I think the smell issue is down to personal strength of sense of smell. I grew up with extremely poor sense of smell and have changed dramatically in last few years. Something about breastfeeding caused it. I can smell a dirty bottom 20' away. I can smell scent on flowers that supposedly have virtually none. Husband walks in the room and says something to me (several feet away) and I reply "You've been eating chocolate!" So my first baby's bottom never smelled in disps, but I can hardly believe how much disps smell nowadays. And Nappy Sacks are the most revolting smell of all; gave me a coughing fit once!

Zebra I think you've got the right idea. We do everything we can to be green. We are guilty of the car but that is because we live in a rural area, but we do everything else we can to be that little bit greener. That said I'm not going to start doing anything which is going to make life too hard. There are so many things we can do though and every little bit helps in my opinion.

REgarding the family holidays thing. Well I don't think its a sin to want to visit your family but if it makes you feel any better about it, that articles in the guardian mentioned below mentions a charity which planted trees to "counter" the ecological impact of the family holiday. Not suggesting you need to get someone to work it out for you but the thought of planting a tree or something to commemorate a holiday it quite nice in itself.

I think that "disposable" lifesyle has its place for those times when we need something to make life a bit easier. Disposable nappies when on holiday etc. But I think we've just got too lax as a society and "abuse" these disposable products now to the point when they've become a major problem. Since desciding to use washable nappies I've come across loads of tips for greener living. Some are just not practical for me but others actually make life nicer, such as the washable sanpro I use now and giving DS cotton hankies instead of him stuffing his pockets with tissues all the time, tupperware pots instead of cling film and string bags instead of plastic ones. I started doing all these to be greener but now actually prefer them and I just think its sad that so many people see doing lots of these things as hardship rather than just giving it a go first. How many people say they won't use washables because they can't cope with the extra washing when they haven't even tried it?

I'm probably someone who gets classed as a pick and choose green.

I'm trying to be more green but I appreciate I'm not going to be able to change overnight, so I do the little I can, increase it bit by bit, and know that every little I do helps in the greater scheme of things.

I tried reusable nappies, and it didn't work for me. Yes, I used several types, used nappy lady but ds got really really bad nappy rash and for me it was hassle using them, so I'm back to disposables seeing has how ds will be starting potty training in a few months anyway. All that said, there's a very strong possibility I will try clothies again for a second child. I'm glad I tried them, did like the feel of them - and am pleased that the times I used them meant less disposables in a dump somewhere.

I have just started using a mooncup. Although, that's primarily due to tampons being uncomfortable for me, and fears of tss and only secondary concerns about the environment, if I'm honest.

I'm now recycling as there's a door-to-door collection scheme in my new area which makes life easier. I'm not recycling glass yet as they don't collect, but I'm intending to build up to that.

I do try to be energy efficient.

I try to educate myself and build in improvements in my life to be more green every now and then.

I'm not saying all this to say "hey, look at me, I'm green" but I'm saying this to say "if I can do this, then other people can make a difference too". By small steps I'm improving and hopefully making a difference. By small changes, it's not much effort. I think it's a major crime to suggest that there's no point in trying to be green unless you go whole hog - that will just deter people from making any effort at all, and realisticly we can never be completely green in our current modern society.

Each step we take to be more environmentally aware, decreases the damage. If you think negatively then you'll probably be too depressed to do anything at all as you'll think "why bother".

GeorginaA - I have to ask - what's a mooncup?

See the Mooncup thread .

I waffle on too much, must apologise. But Dadslib seems to think that pick and choose green is worse than not trying to do anything green at all. I'm not a green saint, but do what I can. Cloth nappies are worth a try because they do create benefits and for most of us, are not big effort.

Thanks Dadslib for suggesting we contact our MPs to give support for wind power; just done it!

I've been lurking and had to add a few comments to this debate

1. dadslib said "the vast majority of parents in the UK are very happy with disposables and the related products, judging by nappy sales alone" - this isn't quite true!! A lot of people use disposables because they think a) they have no choice and b)if they know cloth still exists.. that they have to soak, boilwash and sterilise! Many people do not know that cloth has moved on from "just" terry squares to all sorts of fitted nappies (which are just brill - yeehaa to TOTSBOTS!!!! )

2. I didn't actually choose to use cloth for green issues but more for money issues (especially since I knew I would be having a 2nd child (soon I hope ) but my nappies are already being used by a 2nd child!). I bought a mix of new and 2nd-hand nappies - thus reducing my costs further! To me, being green was a bonus rather than the reason. I have had so many leaks with disposables - whoever puts them on ds; whatever brand I use and yes I did check size; elastic etc!!! I have had no leaks with tots and the occasional wet leak with terries - when MIL/SIL put the wrap on wrong!

Dadslib, re:"I take it you only like men joining in if they agree with you, judging by your praise for Bobsdad and lack of praise for me? "

Firstly I'm not going to 'praise' your post if I disagree, am I? Refer to my post of 24 July, 2003 9:38:28 PM "As Enid says, it's nice to have a man's point of view (there are a couple of other men around - seem to be staying well clear of nappy debates tho ) but not if you're just out for a row."

You seem to be sticking to the view that if you can't do everything then there's no point doing everything. If everyone took this view then the world would be in an even worse state than it is now. Not everyone can be eliminate every environmentally unfriendly action in their lives (can anyone, in fact), but if we all do a little, do our bit, then that is a start, surely? I don't believe that's letting big business off the hook - surely that's putting more pressure on. IMHO that's just an excuse not to do anything. I agree that the government needs to take more responisbility and big business need to take more responsibility, but IMO we all have a responsibility to the environment and we should all do anything we can, no matter how small.

anais... been desperately trying to think of a coherent, calm and sensible thing to say back to dadslib... and you've said it perfectly for me me!!! thank you!

Dadslib, I'd like to take anais's point one step further. Agreed we should all do our bit even if what we feel we can do is small every little bit helps. However it was your comment about Governments that I also wished to tackle. When I was growing up my mother's local council never supplied "green bins" and recycling runs. Now not only are there recycling bins but recycling days. This has happened because of pressure from people like us wanting to have these changes. Agreed I'm only one voice but I do have a right to speak and make myself heard. Its actually up to us to tell our government what we want. When said loud enough they do hear and they do respond, hence why things have changed. Further changes are necessary and yes it would be great to see them over night but thats not very realistic - but that shouldn't stop us from a) doing whatever we feel we can and b) from letting our voices be heard.

I'm not as green as I would like. Reading the posts on this thread puts me to shame however its not going to stop me jumping into my car and using a plane to go on holiday. No the thing that prompted me to ask my initial question was the thought that as my dd enters her 20s her first nappies will still be around .

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