Tea room 16 welcome to Shangri-la

[UniS]

Shangri-la = a hidden valley with beautiful views and crystal streams of course, and some inter-far eastern type of chalet things set around a Serene Courtyard with ever-blooming Japanese cherry trees, lots of refreshing fragrant teas, silk cushions, tinkling tiny waterfalls and bonsai trees, Gardens of Tranquillity etc.

Home to teh 16th Tea room, a haven for those with one or more or less children who like cake, tea, talking nonsense and oggling Mellors ( our handyman/ butler). If its your first vist, pull up a cushion .Mind out for the guinea pigs and other pets and do take care not to squash the teeny tiny naked mowhawk babies ( nmbs
, no longer naked and now toilet trained you will glad to hear)as they go about their duties helping Mellors.

Confused... come on, jump in and have a hot chocolate.

Amber, you really do have a wonderfully expressive way of explaining things - I am starting to sound like a one-woman fan club (although I'm pretty sure everyone on here would be in it too) but I do love reading your posts.

Have to ask you though - what's an AQ? Is it autism quotient or something similar? I know that SQ = systemising quotient and EQ = emotional (or similar) quotient but haven't seen AQ before. My score in SQ and EQ is far more typical of males than females - says a lot about me, and also bears out one friend once telling me I "was a good bloke to go drinking with". Before you all start wondering if I'm a hairy trucker/plumber, I'm not - I was a tomboy though and do have some very stereotypically male traits. And lots of female ones too!

A&O's DH should pay heed to Amber's view on whether or not people with ASD can feel love as she is inside the head of an Aspie and he is only an observer - you can work 100 years with something and still not know as much as someone who is the something.

RS - am still that M. Snake is so mean to you sometimes. Perhaps he saves all his unexpressed-to-others annoyances up and unleashes them on you later - but you should not be his verbal punchbag, that's a shocking thing to do to someone, especially someone you profess to love!

CMOTD - I used to dread going home at weekends when I was younger - back to loss of freedom, other people's rules, Mum nitpicking at me etc. etc. When I went back to the UK in Jan, even that was hard for the first week because I felt like we were intruding and had to walk on eggshells - almost to the point of me saying to Dad "do you actually want us to stay somewhere else?" He would have been so upset if we had but he had troubles adjusting to us being there for a few days. for miniThumb because Grandpa had a face on him all the time to start with - but a frank and open discussion sorted it out, thankfully!

I'd just like to say, I admire you amber, very much so.

My experiences with autism/the spectrum have been with children (though I do wonder about a couple of adults in my life). One boy is the brother of one of my former Girl Scouts back in the States and I remember talking with his mom and she very off-handidly/openly said that he'd had a diagnosis at aged 6 months. Is that really possible? He was such a lovely little boy so cuddly but he very much liked things in it's place. He knew that when he came to my apartment there was a crate of toys/games in one area of the living room. I only ever brought it out when I knew the girls and/or their siblings were coming over I didn't have children then so normally stored the box in a closet -- and once he came over (around age 5) spontaneously to drop something off and went immediately for where the box was supposed to be. He got VERY upset/adgetated (spelling) when it wasn't there and only calmed when I got the box out and put it where it "should be", even though there wasn't time for him to find a book or toy to play with. Took me AGES to understand his speech, but suddenly I did, even when other adults (the parents of other girls) around didn't. I remember the mother working hard with him and she always seemed so grateful that I would happily catch him (he had a thing for running down the long hallway at the school where we met and the mom just couldn't keep up) and include him on trips/activities that were family friendly (trips to children's museums, the cinema, etc).

Anyway, that's enough about C. (I still remember his name, that's how much of an impact he had on me, but I don't remember all of my Girl Scouts' names because I had so many over the years.) I guess, though, I've always wondered how they got a diagnosis so young?

BabyScout got his first sticker today. The dentist gave him a big "I was a good patient" one today even though he wasn't a patient. He happily sat in the corner playing with his truck while I had my appointment. Went to the supermarket and got him some tee-shirts and shorts since he seems to have rapidly out-grown just about everything we got him in the States. I bought the next size up in vests, thinking they'd be a bit big, so light to sleep in and get through the summer. WRONG! I'm going to have to go exchange all of his tops and bottoms if I want them to make it through camp at least!

I'm babbling now, so I'm off to sleep under the shade of the trees.

I'm so sorry to have upset you Amber . I feel now that I should not have raised the topic. I felt that from the way you speak here in the tearoom that there was no doubt you love your dh and Fine Lad, but dh had said otherwise, we disagreed on it and I had been wanting to raise the question with you for some time but felt scared to do so, I'm not sure why I suddenly asked it really.

But I am very glad of the response. It just goes to show that what a person shows on the outside is not necessarily representative of their actual feelings at all. I shall let dh know. I don't think it negatively affects the way he works with his clients as supposedly he is very good at his job and I guess they don't focus much on emotions but instead day to day practicalities (e.g. shopping practise, transport practise etc) in his line of work. But it saddens me to think that he is disregarding a group of peoples feelings by not believing these feelings exist. It must be horrible for you to think that there are people who view autistic people in that light though. I'm really really sorry to have caused you upset. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

TW, get ye to Google or a search engine of your choice and ask it "AQ test online". Verily, thou shalt see before thee a teste of some repute by Ye Olde Autism Research Centre people measuring the "Autism Quotient". It's not diagnostic, but it gives people a clue as to whether they should go for a diagnosis if they so wished.

Strictly speaking I'm autistic rather than aspie, but aspie sounds more pleasing to my ear

In theory autism can be diagnosed at any age, with the right brain scans etc to detect function, but in reality it's bloomin' hard before age 18 months and often for higher functioning individuals may not be picked up until way later. They are still only identifying half the cases in the schools, according to the research. If someone's misbehaving, they get diagnosed. The quiet ones generally don't.

Oh lordy lord, I so need to stop talking about autism before people actually die of boredom!

AandO you didn't upset me ((((proffers virtual hug))). I just get a bit worried when I hear of people working with some of my peers at the lower end of the spectrum and who think they don't and can't love. (I work with people on all parts of the spectrum.) But I have to respect that it can look like that, and that most people go on looks, appearance, gesture, eye contact, touch etc etc. All things we're rubbish at displaying.

I watch supposedly emotionless people with profound autism and yet, to us, their 'language of emotion' is absolutely clear. It's just our language, not your language. We speak it. But it takes skill to listen and interpret it, unless we learn to use the exact right words or to use hugs etc (which can hurt like mad if we have sensitive skin).

I was almost non-verbal for most of my young life, but I never doubted that God loved me, for example. It just made perfect, silent sense.

The music of love is on the inside It can't always be heard on the outside.

Good morning all. (Morning here.)

(((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))) to Amber and a 5000 piece puzzle of a bunch of roses that I saw in a toy store when we were in California.

Thumb, how's the nipple-cream-covered nose? Sorry you had such a rough night. I suppose you wouldn't want to take a decongestant with pseudoephedrine just to dry up the snot for a night?

Re meet-ups: I was nervous before meeting CMOT in Anaheim last year... very!! ("Oh no, will she actually like me in person?") And I'm sure I babbled like the proverbial idiot... but it was lovely to put a face to the screen name.

Oh, I'm, supposed to tell you all hello and much love from Catita. I chatted with her on Facebook last night. She apologizes for being absent from the Tea Room but she's hip-deep in her research which must be submitted in another month and says she daren't go on MN because she'll get stuck. She's up until midnight working on the book most nights. But will be back come September. Kittenito and Gatita are well, G is 8 months old tomorrow, and K should be able to have the testicular op soon. Temps in Mexico are in the 40s so UHJ!!!! And things have been a bit tense because some drug lords have recently shot the man running for governor in the province she lives. [EEEEEK] emoticon. Otherwise, all is well...

One more question before I have to get ready for work - I've recently read about a product called Vicks First Defence, a nasal spray that you blast up your nose at the first sign of a cold and it's supposed to clear up a cold practically overnight. Have any of you heard of it? When I Googled it, it wasn't available here in North America, only in the U.K.
Anyone seen/tried it?

Oh, one more thing - Scout, you're from the US, right? How old is Baby Scout? DH and I go across the border very often to shop at the Outlets - read: when Jackbaby was outgrowing vests and stuff once a week we got dirt cheap clothes for him at Carter's, OshKosh and the Children's Place. Would you want to let me know Baby Scout's details and I could pick up the basics for him so you have some on hand and post them to you? The Harmonized Sales Tax kicks in here in Canada today (grrrrr ) and Washington State is waiving the sales tax for residents of British Columbia... so even less reason to shop here and more to go down over the line. Friends of mine are going today and stocking up, they said Carter's is advertising their $3.99 sale.
Let me know.

and re. Catita's news

Me and pseudoephedrine Do Not Get On. It's in Night Nurse - supposed to help you sleep? Not me. Awake all night. The GP told me about 5% of people have that reaction to it. I tried using decongestants once - the cold lasted 3 times longer than any other I've ever had, so I work on the principle now that it needs to run (ha!) its course without interference. Ditto any form of diarrhoea (which I don't have, btw). I do seem to have a cold in my bladder as well though - that seems to be on the go an awful lot too!

I tried going to bed. I was tired (nothing to do with having googled AQ and trying to do the test, oh no) - I was there 10 minutes before the coughing started. 20 minutes later I was back on the sofa with my spare duvet again, having lost half a lung on the way somewhere. If anyone sees it, can I have it back please?

Vicks First Defence - I remember the ads for it in the UK. Haven't seen it here in Oz though. I wouldn't use it though, just in case it has pseudo-ephedrine in.

My nose is A Mess - that's all you need to know.. But it will get better. I'm just shockingly dehydrated but drinking loads too; the skin on my hands is like sandpaper!

Thanks amber!

Amber, you do contradict everything I have always heard about autism!

I taught a boy with asbergers once (actually several boys, but this one sticks in my mind). I always wondered how he could without, according to what we had been told, any sense of emotion or empathy whatsoever, say such terribly unkind things to the staff. He always seemed to hit on the most hurtful thing to say. Surely he would need a good understanding of others' feelings to do that? I remember once we did the staff play with a Bob the Builder dance in it and the next day I asked him if he had enjoyed it, and he said loudly to the class, 'Yes, the funniest thing was watching Miss Snake trying to dance.' He told the secretary in assembly to iron her face, because it was so wrinkly and baggy.

Put me down as another Aspie who knows about love! And DS too!

I was told by an autism expert that it wasn't possible for people on the autistic spectrum to have a faith. This was from someone senior in the church, with 2 autistic children, and who had worked for 30 years in autism. Well, in my mind it only takes 1 person to disprove that theory. He went VERY quiet when I told him I had Aspergers - initially we'd been talking about my son and helping him with his faith. But I can't help but worry about these so-called experts who think they know it all, who people listen to because they have so much experience!

(sorry for my minirant )

I always thought that people with ASD had difficulty with empathy etc because they had trouble decoding the visual clues that people without ASD respond to - I didn't realise that there were 'experts' in the field who extrapolated that to say that people with ASD had no sense of empathy! That's such an illogical leap!

Lol at Mary putting the 'expert' in his place.

I've learned to empathise, to the point that I've been told I'm often more considerate and understanding than someone who does it 'naturally'. I heard someone refer to it as 'cognitive empathy', and I like that idea. I tend to always think "If I were that person how would I feel", and I think life has given me experience of a lot of things, so that I have more of a clue how I would feel - and hence how they would feel.

Prime example of me being a quick learner: During my diagnostic interview with the specialist, she said to me "did you know that when your DH speaks you don't turn round to include him?". Well, I didn't turn round because I knew he was there. However, from that point on I couldn't help myself, every time he talked I turned to listen rather than just listened. There were a couple of other incidents like this during the interview as well. It was quite enlightening for me!

I admire you, too, Mary!

Wow, me too. I like the concept of cognitive empathy.

RS, as young people we are horrible literal and will say absolutely anything that we observe without a single thought for the social consequences. To a child with an ASC, a wrinkly face needs ironing because that's what you do with wrinkly clothes. Perfect logic. Just totally . Even now I have to remember Not To Say Things Like That , because I've learned that it's rude and people are upset by it. It's perfectly possible to learn that as a rule, and then learn to re-route emotions-for-me to thinking about emotions-for-them. Just takes us a while.

I've fixed fencing, put shopping away, wrestled laundry...is it time for a pre-holiday glass of something?

Drink! (she says in her best Father Jack voice)

Scout and Jacksmama, and thank you

Its true what Amber says, its a bit like "out of the mouths of babes", but like Amber, I've learned not to say what I think. Personally I find some not-ASC politeness to be incredibly rude. Like "Hi, how are you" when you've not got the slightest interest how I am, is one of my pet peeves!

Amber... your post is so interesting!

There is a boy I know who never looks at me rather around me or behind me or most the time not anywhere near me all. His eyes often move from side to side. He speaks with a slightly unnatural high voice and is often sort of self comforting with his hands. He rubs his own leg or cheek or is often rubbing his fingers together. He is very distant from the other children. The other adults say "He is sweet, dreamy and quiet" and have not mentioned the "a" word at all. No-one seems to have thought of it but me...

On the otherhand there is a lad who is loud and 'all over the shop' - he is suspected of having autism but I can't see any classic autistic ways of going about things.

hot chocs all round??

And gin if you prefer, with a straw.

Its raining at last. Hurrah, one waterbut full, one filling up.

Gin, too hot for hot chocs! No rain here as yet!

ah well, maybe your rain will come later. its been sheeting down for hours up here in teh hills.

night all, sleep tight and no deep philosophical staying up late chat stuff...

Rain? Are you joking! UniS you need to put away your pretty chinese lanterns!

JM thanks for update on Catita, please send her love, great to hear all is well, just busy....

Mary and Amber what is so interesting is much of what you say about learning empathy is, I had always thought, what everyone has to learn. I mean, I think "how does that person feel" or "what do they feel" when I want to empathise - what is interesting is that you have consciously learnt social codes and tricks that many people are perhaps not taught when they ought to be? I can think of many people who utterly lack empathy because they just didn't stop to think....

what I mean is not to disparage all that you have so insightfully said about spectrum behaviour and your own thoughtful learning process but we don't have to look far to see many examples of non-empathetic behaviour or behavioural patterns that are destructive, learnt of undesirable amongst non-spectrum people.... (I don't think I am saying this right but I hope you sort of know what I mean?)

Racing, I am so sorry to hear about your DH, he may well have some issues but he does seem to visit it on you to an unnecessary degree, you do seem to have to absorb all the negatives in your family set up - I think Revenge Cake Eating was very wise and eminently sensible

Scout - did you see my question about going to the Outlets for you?

Hiya Jacks! Sorry, yes, I didn't get a chance to come back on last night. Yes, I am from the US (Pennsylvania! wahoo!!) and live in the UK now (that English hubby of mine has a lot to answer for! HAHAH) Thank you for your offer, but my Mom beat you to it. Hehehe. When we (BabyScout and I) went home we (Mom and I) stocked him up for what we thought would be the summer, and a little into the fall -- to get us through until Thanksgiving when we (BabyScout, HubbyScout and I) go back for our annual visit. HA! BabyScout's had other ideas and seems to be growing at a phenominal rate. He was 8 months on Monday (who said my baby could grow up?!?!) and has already outgrown most of his 12 month clothes (for height/weight) from the States. I got him some new things yesterday in the 9-12 month range here (going by height) and have to return them because he'll only get a couple weeks max out of them and I was hoping to get him through Guide camp. Mom's in the process of stocking him up for September/October and will be shipping a package off soon. We have a Carter's store, a Children's Place, a Carter's outlet, a Children's Place outlet and an OshKosh outlet all within an hour of my parents', as well as Target everywhere (and with a sister who works for them, so a discount even on discounted items!) which is good for stocking up on onsies and diapers/wipes when we visit (I only take what I need for the plane when we go back).

Just curious -- do you ever get stopped at the border/made to pay duty tax? I've been to Canada a few times but not since they've "tightened the border" and you actually need a passport to get over. I've had (British) friends fly into California and get hassled because they were then going into Cananda and flying off from there.

How old is JackBaby?