Is 9am to 6pm five days a week too much for a (nearly) 4 year old? Decision time tonight please help

[choucroutegarnie]

Our son, aged 3 1/2, is meant to start nursery full time in September. Until now he's been at home, though with lots of other kids around so he's very sociable.

We have 2 options: a great (but rather expensive) nursery attached to a primary school, which means 9am-6pm days, or our local (but so-so) school, which means we could afford to have him looked after at home or at a childminder's after school.

I tend to prefer the first one because the teachers are great and the class sizes smaller, but do those things really matter if your kid is exhausted and just wants to go home?

I know it's pathetic because we are lucky to have these options but I'd welcome some advice from someone who's gone down the full-time route.

What was it like? Any advice?

The deadline for admissions is tomorrow morning...

'as middle class values'

Some of us would not have a job if we relocated out of London. You live in a pie-in-the-sky world IAPT.

ima-here,here! We relocated too and our life is fab although apparently we are a children in poverty statistic,though it doesnt feel like it.
I read The Times

There is a world outside London you know Spicemonster, with things like..er jobs

Imaparentoo - it is admirable and I'm sure all would agree - that you are prepared to give up luxuries to spend time with your dcs but as other posters have said sometimes it absolutely necessary for both parents to work full time to make ends meet and your comments are not helpful! And many employers are not as flexible as yours seem to be.

I was the main wage earner and my dd went full time to a nursery at 5 months. She was very well looked after and loved (proved by the reactions of staff, children and me) when she left aged 2 when we emigrated. Last day at the nursery was the hardest thing even compared to leaving my home, my friends, family and job! Fortunately dd is less of a wuss,,,,Here she has been full time in kindergarten since 2.5. She loves it, is really stimulated and happy and has lots of friends. She knows how to socialise and share and behave well when there is 1 teacher to 20 kids. She does not want to stay home all day with mummy and daddy because that is "boring". But of course I would say that wouldn't I

I would not criticise your choice because that is exactly what it is. Others make differnt choices based on their circumstances and that is OK too. With regards to the OP, I think it may be harder to go from zero childcare to full time and maybe a bit of school and then CM maybe more appropriate for the beginning at least - though only OP knows her child. Maybe the continuity of full day care maybe better if a bit of shock to the system to start with. Is there the option to put dc in part time in advance and build up to it a bit>?

You can always retrain, go self employed..possibilities are endless, properties are also cheaper so homeowners would have a lot of equity to play with. Perhaps even enough to 'buy' a year off work.

Fairymum, you rock!!

I needed to work - not for the money - but for my sanity. I could not and did not want to be a SAHM (I can hear the sharp intakes of breath and tuts from here, thank you)

The kids loved nursery and TBH I was and am a better parent for them being in nursery.

MmeBovary, I am sad and shocked that your child finds you boring, at this age parents should be teaching values, exploring the world with their child, enjoying books, nature, physical activity and daily life. The role of a parent is massive not minute and if either party finds it 'boring' then not enough creativity is being used.

OneLieIn - no sharp intake of breath here, many many parents like to keep their children at arms length. I am the minority, you are the norm!

Obviously you are a perfect parent IAPT.

I don't think there is any such thing, Spicemonster, although some are better that others!

How many children do you have, IAPT?

Ooh I just knew you were going to come out with something like that! My dd enjoys many things with us "boring" parents! Books, playing, trips to museums, discussions about different countries, swimming, bike rides, walks in the countryside, colouring in, learning the alphabet, telling jokes, planting seeds and watching them grow etc etc etc. I didn't say that we had absolved ourselves of all parental responsibilty and that dd never wanted to do things with us - just that she really enjoys being with her own peer group - not stuck home with mummy or daddy all the time.

Probably best to reserve judgement on perfect parenting until they hit the teens and come out the other side, IMO.

Gold star to IAPT.

To the OP - ds3, my 3 and a half year old does those sorts of hours up to 4 days a week (sometimes I can pick up earlier if I have help in to look after ds1) and sometimes goes to a childminder for 4 hours on the 5th day. He does find it quite tiring, but he seems to enjoy himself.

Now I'm a bit cross and apologise to OP as we seem to have gone off the subject of whether a full time nursery/school and CM is the best option and turned it into a SAHM vs childcare in general issue....So I am going to stick my head above the parapet and say that all this "quality time" stuff with kids is such a recent invention Not so long ago there was no state education, no NHS, no bathrooms, no labour saving devices, little contraception - unless you were amongst the fortunate few, I'd hazard a guess that even SAHP did not spend much "quality time" with their offspring - far too much to do scraping together a life. Kids were minded by the "community" and had a much rougher time of things than our kids will (mostly) ever have to deal with. Strangely enough they weren't all out getting pissed and stabbing strangers (actually I have no evidence for this bit really so feel free But god knows how the human race has managed not to implode so far... Sorry OP - soapbox rant!

PS - in case anyone says - I spend lots of quality time with dd. Just get cross when others get all high handed about how others manage their lives....grgggh. Going to bed now to seethe....

Don't seethe. Breathe.

IAPT doesn't seem to live on the same planet as I do, just love his list of 'sacrifices' Bubble and Marina are the voice of reason (as usual)
to get back to OP, some of your views may depend on what you mean by full-time nursery, if you are talking about 'education' in a school-like setting wiht older children then I agree to go from home all the time to full-time will need some adjustment.
If however you are talking more about 'childcare' then it will be easier for him with more down-time etc.
I also would echo the difficulty of finding someone you would like to do just some after-school/part-time nannying not easy and changes are unsettling and difficult for you.

What Marina said. All of it!

And also to second MmeBovary - a family where children are in the devoted care of their parents 24/7 is not the historical norm and can't be assumed to be the ideal - an assumption many on this thread seem to be making.

It's far more "normal" for small children (toddler age and onwards) to be away from their parents for most of the day, being cared for in the wider community.

You could (if you were so minded) argue on that basis that being cared for only - or even mainly - by their parents is not what children are adapted for.

Personally, I think that I couldn't possibly judge what is best for someone else's child. So I don't.

FWIW, I work part time and have a foot firmly in all possible SAHM/WOHM/childcare camps (yes, I am a centipede, since you ask), so I've no personal axe to grind here.

It's personal choice really, isn't it? For me though, it was a no-brainer - I didn't want my kids looked after by a servant who was paid to attend to their every whim. Ok, I'm biased - I own a nursery. But I'm telling the truth when I say that kids who have been in daycare are the nicest kids in the world - unspoilt, unselfish, undemanding, happy, independent and completely sociable (these kids start school knowing how to make friends and how to get on in a group situation). It's a far, far healthier choice than having a nanny in my opinion.

Your nursery sounds great bobbysmum and your post about the pluses of good daycare largely reflect my own experiences of what they have given my dcs in terms of useful life skills.
But tbh it's not always a free choice. I had no alternative to returning to work full-time, so I diverted my energies to doing my utmost to get the best care in place possible, and working hard on keeping a close and constructive relationship with the carers.
I found that left me little time for forming asinine generalisations about other people's circumstances, as per elsewhere on this thread

IMVHO it's irrelevant whether they're at nursery or at home, the most important thing is for your child to feel loved and cherished.

As the 'bad mother' who started this thread I was amazed to see the size of it when I returned to MN after a few days offline.

That I should have been surprised by the extreme self-righteousness of some comments shows how inexperienced I am on this forum...

But thanks to Marina and like-minded others for their words of wisdom - your constructive comments helped me make a more informed decision.