Is this an illegal exclusion? Nursery

[MumTeach88]

My 3.5 year old son was kicked out his nursery. We have been working closely with the nursery throughout and he has additional needs. We have a SEND support arrangement in place as well.

We were called in for a meeting and they informed me they don't feel they can meet his needs and that he isnt coping and is "impacting the other children". My hand was metaphorically twisted and I said "is this you saying I need to find another setting?" Long story short, yes, this was what they were doing. I agreed i would and they agreed they were happy to have him until I found one.

2 weeks later (him having only been back a day and a half as we were on holiday), they called me. They were beating around the busy and I said "so you're kicking him out?" They tried to say words around it and that it wasn't they were kicking him out, I asked "So he can come in next week then?" They said no. My husband then called them later and they confirmed they were terminating his place immediately.

I have documents with that they have done (or not as the case was) against the Support Plan. Their main issue is he was impulsive and where he has SAL issues, he can grab and hit. Now, I totally understand that's difficult, but having received rhe behaviour logs under an SAR and shared with someone working in another nursery, they feel that it is actually fairly standard 3 year old behaviour to snatch a toy or hit a child when you can't communicate. Obviously I understand this is an issue, and would never want to have my son hurt someone, but we were working with them (so we thought) on this with social stories, support plan etc. Among other things, they have issues that he cant sit still for 20mins, can't use cutlery proficiently and needs his suncream applied 1st due to allergies. They also take issue that he is not potty trained (despite us trying twice and working with them on this).

The long and short of it, is this a legal exclusion? As far as I am aware they have not submitted to LA. The nursery is independent but under OFSTED. Thanks

Yes, he thrives as Forest School. I attend with him weekly. We also do not see the behaviours in this setting but it is smaller, outside and no sitting still required. I will look around for more options around this. Thanks for your helpful response.

That sounds amazing, I'm sure you son will benefit from all this, especially forest school. With basic foundations in social skills and support when he starts reception, he will do really well with such parental support.

Thank you for this. We hope so x

So what ism your suggestion then
How do you think the staff should stop him hitting other kids?

Seems pretty reasonable to me tbh. Your child has special needs that cannot be met at this private nursery and they cannot guarantee the other children's safety from 'normal risks' associated with children's interactions.

Down to the parents of SEN children to either pay more for their children's care in specialist care or do it themselves. The other children's childhood experiences should not be compromised for the growing number of children who cannot control themselves.

Other than 1-2-1 care for one child ?
You really expect a member of staff to follow one child around all day - every day ?
Really

Wow. You definitely win on least understanding, inclusive and compassionate response. Whilst I never wish this on anyone, I hope you somehow have an experience that makes you realise how that comment sounds.

Wow. So SEN equals cannot control themselves?

Educate yourself please.

I worked in a nursery and we did just that. Staff would take it in turns. It’s quite simple. Obviously need the staff to be able to facilitate that though.

I don’t think it’s an easy situation but the nursery hsve to consider the safety of all the children. It’s a balancing act between inclusivity and a child’s right not to be hit.

As a parent my first priority is the safety of my child. Obviously hitting does happen but there’s a difference between a one off and an every day event.

I'm just sick of reading (There are plenty of examples on your own thread) about how its ok for these children to effect everyone elses childhood experience negatively. Children hurt in class because the SEN child cannot be controlled or monitored properly. The country has no money, the days of throwing more money at issues are grinding to a halt now. Its not nice but these children with special needs are going to find support harder and harder to come by.

I'm sorry, OP, it's shit being a SEND parent sometimes

Unfortunately, if the setting can't meet his needs they are right to exclude him - they have a duty of care to all the children they care for, and if he's hurting other children the nursery will be getting complaints from other parents (and may even have had parents remove their child because they consider it unsafe). This happened at DS's primary school, another child with significant needs kept lashing out, and in the end two families left the school because they were understandably upset that their DC were being hit and were scared to come to school.

Getting an EHCP isn't limited to only children already attending a setting - you can apply for one yourself. If you can afford it, get a private ed-psych appointment to bolster your case, and keep on with all NHS appointments to get a formal diagnosis.

Thanks. I didnt reply to win friends, i dont know you from Adam.

I talk truths. The truth is people are starting to realise that the majority are being negatively effected by the minority. In the past there was enough money floating about to provide the 1-1 care needed to cope with the issue. This private nursery highlights the issue perfectly. They are a business. The perfect solution is for them to employ more staff to provide 1-1 care for this child. But that isnt cost effective for a private nursery. Even nursery care workers have said the same, they had to have enough staff to provide the care. So if a private nursery makes a BUSINESS decision that its more cost effective to remove the child then that makes sense. I am also trying to highlight that in general the country hasnt got a lot of spare cash either. It is going to result in a lack of provision all over.

This has been a undercurrent from loads of threads recently on similar topics.

Tbf I’d rather a SEN child than a “truth teller” who lacks empathy.

Even 121 is sometimes not enough, especially with a child who is very fast. It's an impossible situation for most nurseries, schools and SEND families, as special school and nursery places are like hens' teeth, and kids with significant needs are shoved in to cope as best they can in unsuitable settings without enough support.

There are services, funding and safety nets in our society to support people with disabilities. As upsetting as it is to see the opinion of a bigoted, uninformed person with low intelligence, please know that almost everyone else doesn’t harbour harmful feelings towards children with disabilities, no decent human being would want to separate or exclude them from having as close to the same childhood experience as their peers. The services right now are far from perfect but they are doing their best to make this possible.

Let me know how far empathy gets you when there is no provisions for these SEN children.

Facing truths gives you the ability to see the bigger picture and try to help resolve the problem

Yep, it’s a shitshow. And then there’s people like @Tessasandersonas well just to add to all the shit. It’s great!

Again with the truth teller shit. 🙄

I am bored of you now.

If there kicking him out for SEN make a disability discrimination claim against them. It doesn't have to be an illegal exclusion for it be to discrimination.

Well in an ideal world yes but more and more Nursery staff are leaving the job due to the long hours and poor pay, my nursery has been advertising for staff for what seems like an eternity, no takers at all and it's easy to see why when you see the job description they put out there, it's truthful but not attractive...

Yes one little girl we had was rapid! Blink and you’d miss it. Unfortunately in early years stuff like that will happen even in the absence of SEN, though obviously the rate at which it occurs can be different.

Yes I agree it’s a shame really as on the whole I do find it an enjoyable job! Private nurseries are charging extortionate amounts and that isn’t passed down to the ordinary folk who are actually looking after the children.

7.30-6 was a killer for me. I had barely any time for my own kids when I got home.