Is this an illegal exclusion? Nursery

[MumTeach88]

My 3.5 year old son was kicked out his nursery. We have been working closely with the nursery throughout and he has additional needs. We have a SEND support arrangement in place as well.

We were called in for a meeting and they informed me they don't feel they can meet his needs and that he isnt coping and is "impacting the other children". My hand was metaphorically twisted and I said "is this you saying I need to find another setting?" Long story short, yes, this was what they were doing. I agreed i would and they agreed they were happy to have him until I found one.

2 weeks later (him having only been back a day and a half as we were on holiday), they called me. They were beating around the busy and I said "so you're kicking him out?" They tried to say words around it and that it wasn't they were kicking him out, I asked "So he can come in next week then?" They said no. My husband then called them later and they confirmed they were terminating his place immediately.

I have documents with that they have done (or not as the case was) against the Support Plan. Their main issue is he was impulsive and where he has SAL issues, he can grab and hit. Now, I totally understand that's difficult, but having received rhe behaviour logs under an SAR and shared with someone working in another nursery, they feel that it is actually fairly standard 3 year old behaviour to snatch a toy or hit a child when you can't communicate. Obviously I understand this is an issue, and would never want to have my son hurt someone, but we were working with them (so we thought) on this with social stories, support plan etc. Among other things, they have issues that he cant sit still for 20mins, can't use cutlery proficiently and needs his suncream applied 1st due to allergies. They also take issue that he is not potty trained (despite us trying twice and working with them on this).

The long and short of it, is this a legal exclusion? As far as I am aware they have not submitted to LA. The nursery is independent but under OFSTED. Thanks

What are you going to gain from going after them though? If you don't want him in the nursery now in any case, what's it for other than to cause them grief because you're upset?

Your priority needs to be finding a more suitable setting for your DS and ensuring things are in place for when he starts school. Trust me, as a SEN parent, you learn to pick your battles, and sometimes you have to accept that a setting isn't suitable for your child and they can't thrive there. You will need your energy for the school years.

No as we cant find a space anywhere. I had to sign him up at 1month old to get a place at 16months due to the area we are in

Thank you, it is really helpful getting perspective from parents who have been dealing with the SEN system

Because no availability anywhere?
or because the nurseries are saying no?

My complete focus would be sorting out my child in an appropriate childcare setting rather than challenging this

Because there is no space anywhere. I am looking into childminders instead currently and, as you say, focusing on getting an EHCP to try and get the right setting for school. I only intend to challenge them if they have done something illegal as would be logical to do.

I am currently dealing with a SEN child targeting my child and their friends on a daily basis within a nursery setting. Hitting, biting, hair pulling. They are an otherwise brilliant child. I felt terrible when I first raised this as being an issue to my child’s key worker and feel hugely for the other child’s parents, however my job is to protect my child. This is not simply “typical behaviour” of a young child. Your nursery have been very honest in advising that they are unequipped to handle this behaviour and have had no option but to let him go. I don’t think this could be described as not being legal. Sadly, it was the most appropriate decision at this time.

I suspect they came under incredible pressure from other parents

Don’t know the answer to your question but the nursery sounds like they have some totally unreasonable expectations so are likely being unreasonable about this situation. I don’t know any 3-year-olds who can concentrate on anything for 20 minutes or use cutlery well! Also, they’re a nursery, they should be experienced at dealing with kids who aren’t potty trained yet. Many 3-year-olds are still potty training and some haven’t got the hang of it yet. It’s not something a nursery should be complaining about, it’s something they should be helping with. I think you’re better off somewhere else regardless

As others have said, no illegal as he’s not compulsory school age.
Were you fined for taking him on holiday during term time? If no, it’s for the same reason.
Ask for all their evidence and for them to contribute to the EHCP process. It will be helpful to have this because you want that in place for primary.,

Sorry to hear your child was targeted that way and I would never expect a parent to not share their concerns. I would hope their parents would feel that way too. If a setting can't support, they cant support. It is just insane that there is no legal protection or things need to be in place for the child before they can just kick them out with nothing lined up to offer support after. As a parent, we feel completely left out in the cold despite having done everything we were supposed to do. I genuinely get other parents views, it is the fact that it appears legal to just kick children with additional needs out with nothing lined up (for example, we can't contact his support worker from LA as he is no longer in the setting and they are attached to the setting, not the child) that blows my mind.

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I wouldn't be happy sending my small child somewhere they are likely to be thumped and scratched on a daily basis and would be taking him out. Multiply that by many parents - they would probably rather lose one than the majority.

It may not be an illegal exclusion but it sounds like disability discrimination to me.
My DS former school was found guilty of this for failing to put his EHCP in place leading to him having multiple meltdowns and ultimately being excluded.
If you want to take this further with the nursery, you should talk to IPSEA.

This does sound like a difficult situation but it maybe that nursery just isn't suitable for your son. I think they can be tough going even for a child without additional needs.
As others have suggested, a childminder might work. Equally, it could be worth looking at a preschool setting or having him at home with you.

Thank you. Yes, a lot of this has come out in paperwork I have received after and I agree. He can apparently sit for 2-3 stories and then will get agitated, but with fidget toys can sit longer...
Not saying his hurting people is linked to this at all - he does have additional needs - but there is an element of "perfect child only" wanted in the setting.

In all my years teaching in early years we only had one child excluded.

This was mainly because the parents were downplaying his behaviour and wouldn’t work with us.

We had staff members crying as he would punch them. He would punch children. We couldn’t do certain activities as he would weaponise the equipment. He only did half days as well, afternoons.

Being told that your child needs one to one, doesn’t instantly mean that the nursery can provide it. They don’t have the funds it needs to be something that is funded from your side.

This is crap Op and I get what you mean. What is focus on is you could fight it but to what point? You don't want him there. You don't want him at a place that isn't going to support him and value him. Not being potty trained at 3, even without SEN isn't that unusual. Not being able to sit for 20 minutes definitely isn't unusual at 3. Yes the hitting is an issue but it sounds like they're not able to put the resources in to manage it and his dysregulation.
For now, I'd focus on trying to find a new placement. What infant school are you wanting him to go to? Does it have a nursery attached?

I'm sorry this has happened to you, similar happened to my friend.
Thankfully she was recommended another nursery and their attitude was chalk and cheese. They actively worked with her family and her DD had a 1 on 1 support. They were fantastic.

Original nursery it came down to staffing numbers (also highly rated nursery) and them not wanting to deal with it. They have high staff turnnover. I won't recommend that nursery to a soul.

Is there a local SEN charity nearby? They might have a list of the nurseries which are proactive and work with parents.

Thank you for this. This is absolutely not our situation at all. Yes, i appreciate they can't offer 1:1 support.

Yes that’s your view
but the nursery clearly are in the same page as this poster

Oh OP this sounds so difficult!
but try to think of it as an opportunity for discovering the type of setting and support which works best for your son for when he starts school? X

They really aren't. The behaviour logs are things like pushing children when he wanted a toy, or hitting when he couldn't communicate, not weaponising activities in the environment. I also have agreed they wouldn't be able to support 1:1 with their funding.
With respect, you seem like a parent with no empathy for children or families fighting the SEN system and have commented on the legality, so I'm not sure what you are trying to gain. I hope you never have to fight a legality with your child's setting

The rules on exclusions don't apply to independent schools or nurseries, so this was not an illegal exclusion. It's just possible you could claim disability discrimination, but that would be a complex action, the onus would be on you to prove the case, and frankly I wouldn't hold out much hope.

I think your time would be much better spent getting your EHCP application entered. At this point you are only asking for assessment, and you simply need to show that your child might have SEN and might need provision via an EHCP. Events with the nursery will go a long way towards making your case on both fronts. The local authority must respond within six weeks to tell you whether they are going to assess or not, and if they refuse, you have a right of appeal. parents win over 90% of these appeals.

There's a lot of useful information on the SOS SEN and IPSEA websites. Go for it!

Op
a private nursery has obviously come under enormous pressure from parents and staff to exclude your child

and you are downplaying hugely

sadly it is only you that suffers because it’s distracting you from the bigger picture…. Your son and his next setting and, most importantly, school

As others have said, this is not an illegal exclusion. The rules on exclusions apply to children of compulsory school age. They do not apply to nurseries of any kind. Ofsted's involvement is irrelevant.