Would you as a parent remove child from nursery

[Hyperquiet]

So my one year old has been attending nursery for 3 months.

In that time a couple of major issues have occured:

1. Bitten on the face by a child that has bitten other children before to the extent where the mark is still dark and visible after about 2 months and counting.

1. Slipped on a scarf at nursery and has fractured leg now.

Everyone around me is telling me to remove child because:
-These are 2 major issues in such a short space of time when my child hasn't been attending nursery long (only 3 months).

• The first issue is around the severity of the bite and lasting mark from a known biter rather than the child was bitten at all as I know that can happen.
• The second issue is because of what my child slipped on a scarf which are quite slippery, considering this is a baby room where one year olds are new to walking. I understand they use these for activities etc but it was that it was left on the floor.

Child is around 1.5 years old for context.

Particularly interested in views from other parents whose children attend nursery too as you'll have the perspective of a parent and end user.

Not really sure what to do for the best as they are accidents, preventable or not i don't know? I want to make the right decision but don't want to uproot one year old unless it is in their best interests as they are settled and the staff generally seem kind to the children.

However, my child will be transitioning to the 2 years plus room in a few months so if it is the best idea to move then that would probably be the best time frame.

Do you think they should have excluded the biter? Or that it was preventable?
The scarf incident is a straightforward accident IMO.

I guess I am saying do you think there has been neglect? Or should they be doing more to prevent accidents?

Sorry you've had these issues, it is life with a toddler unfortunately.

I don't know honestly. I just want to make the right decision. I think the timeframe and severity of both issues in the space of 3 months has made me think. Also family and friends who also have children that attend nursery are advising me to leave which is why I am asking here for more perspective from other parents that use nurseries.

I actually asked my DS nursery how I haven't had social referral yet for all of his bruises (joking obviously) and they said "don't worry, he falls just as much at nursery as he does at home" 😅 just yesterday he was running while looking backward and ran into the table, lovely bump on his head 🤦🏻‍♀️

I wouldn't remove him, as long as there is no neglect or other issues.

I read your other thread. I hope she's ok with her cast 💐
I think you are always going to feel uncomfortable with that nursery now.
However in any childcare settings there will be accidents and unfortunately other babies who bite (or hit).
Will she be at home while in her cast?
Maybe use that time to look at alternative childcare settings - child minder or nanny maybe?

Biting is always something that evokes strong reactions. I’ve been in baby and toddler groups where I’ve heard people say they removed their child from nursery or complained to nursery because of biting. It is really common though and difficult to eradicate altogether. My DS was a biter and while 9/10 times I could swoop in and grab him if it looked like he was going to bite sometimes you do miss cues or get momentarily distracted.

The scarf just sounds like an unfortunate accident. But equally it trust has broken down (and it’s understandable if it has) then it’s fine to find another setting.

Go with your gut feeling.
Do you deep down feel she’s safe there? It’s good to gets other parents opinions but really you should go off what you feel is best for your child. 💐

This is why I think childminders are better than nurseries. Less children so they can be watched alot easier. Sorry to hear about the fracture to the leg. I read your thread yesterday about it. Is a childminder a possibility for you?

Honestly I don't think twice signing accident forms about bumps to the head etc. I think it is the extent of these 2 events that I am deliberating.

Depends if they are apologetic or not.

Slipping on a scarf is unfortunate but is imagine it's one of those sensory scarve things. So a baby has probably pulled it out of a box and yours has slipped on it. That's really a true accident imo

Biting is difficult as most nurseries you do have some children that bite or push or hit.. it's usually a phase but I've never really experienced it in the baby room with mine, usually the next room up/toddlers and preschoolers. I would be a bit concerned why the babies weren't more closely supervised. Severity of the bite, well, I don't really know what you can do about that?

Have you looked into childminders? Smaller and more supervision usually. Plus a nicer feel

Thank you. Really struggling as so active usually and it is a full leg one so can't bend at the knee! I am really hoping fracture clinic will change it to a walking one when we get our appointment. X

These 2 events in isolation or over a longer period of time I wouldnt consider removing.

I think with the context of both happening, the severity of the impact in the timeframe since starting nursery (3 months) has made me thinkm

Maybe I need to sit on it a bit more and see what the conclusion to their investigation is as well as any measures they propose if anything depending on whay exactly happened as we havent been told yet.

So initially I didnt consider childminders as I thought a nursery has more staff so more accountability, more records etc. But may be worth looking into some in my area just to see.

Honestly, I think my decision would be made on the basis of how the nursery responded to the incidents not on the incidents themselves.

One of mine got concussion after a fall at nursery close to the end of the day - the staff member messed up all the processes so that when we ended up in A&E we didn't have anywhere near sufficient details to give medical staff to allow them to assess him properly. When I spoke to the nursery manager about it the following day she was enormously apologetic and properly upset and angry about what had happened, and kept in close touch with the steps they'd put in place to prevent anything like that happening again.

How a nursery reacts and responds to a problem is as important as the nature of the problem itself - as others have said sometimes you can just have an unlucky run of stuff.

There aren’t as many children at a childminders but also there aren’t as many staff! It does depend to a large extent on the concoction of children there. If you have a small group of children who are all prone to biting or hitting or even are just very clingy and demanding it can be nursery works better for them because there are more staff to manage the situations. And there are nurseries and nurseries and childminders and childminders as well.

Thank you. Will see how they respond.

Hopefully this is the end of our unlucky run!

Yes good points

To be honest, if you have no other concerns, it sounds like your daughter has just been very unlucky.

Biting can happen incredibly fast. Even if a child is in an active biting phase and the nursery are basically shadowing that child, it can be hard to intervene quickly enough. And shadowing like that is incredibly hard to maintain because if a member of staff is glued to one child, there's a million other things they're not doing.

Slipping on the scarf – again, it could happen in an instant. Do you have general concerns that the floor is left dangerously cluttered? Otherwise, the scarf could have been being played with seconds before, and unfortunately your child has slipped on it. Even more unfortunately, she's broken her leg.

That said, if trust has broken down, that's very hard to get back.

I think it’s important to separate the two incidents (though I can see how that’s hard, given they’ve only been there a few months).

The biting - what did the nursery do in response to it? My child was bitten at nursery at a similar age, and they put the biter on a 1-2-1 regime so that they’d never be without a staff member. Have they done anything like that?

Sounds like two genuine accidents/incidents and you have been very unlucky, but personally I would be feeling very nervous as a parent having both happen so soon after starting and close together.

The scarf thing, while awful for you, is why premiums are so high with businesses now, people don’t acknowledge that accidents are a part of life

What’s your alternative childcare? Have you somewhere in mind that is nurturing, caring, safe, tailored to your individual child? Are the staff consistent? Is there turnover? How do they manage incidents? No one can tell you what to do - I’ve seen you ask advice here on what medication to give your child (you need a health professional!) and I really would suggest that only you will know all the nuances. Look up Sarah ockwell smith for things to consider about childcare and go through list and see if nursery are matching or would someone else be a better option. Do drop ins, pick up early, get a feel yourself.

One to one supervision isn’t realistic. DS was (is) my first child so during his baby shark phase I could follow him around and I still occasionally missed things. Then if you have multiple biters in the same settings (which isn’t unusual at this age!) then you could potentially have staff doing literally nothing but 1-1 with the biter!

I saw your other thread OP. I don’t think I would remove mine no. But if you feel like the trust is gone I equally wouldn’t blame you for wanting a fresh start elsewhere.

Some thoughts:

The scarf slip sounds like a really unfortunate accident.

It’s not nice but young kids do bite sometimes. Nursery staff, same as a childminder, are looking after multiple babies/toddlers and they can’t pre empt everything and they especially can’t control how hard a biter bites. There’s a also good chance your DC might do it at some point. Between them my kids have been to 4 nurseries in 2 countries and there were biters at all of them, and mine bit once or twice too. I think the only way to avoid would be with a nanny until preschool because by 3 most kids have grown out of it.

I also think it’s not easy leaving a little one who can’t communicate much yet at nursery the leg break must have been pretty traumatic for you both, even if it was an awful accident. I presume baby is home with you for a few days whilst they recover and get used to the cast? So I’d take that time to think about it, don’t rush into a decision, watch the CCTV and go from there.

Something you could check is whether the incident has been reported to Ofsted, it's a requirement for nurseries to report serious incidents (regardless of it being an unfortunate accident rather than negligence). It's a good sign if the nursery responds appropriately and is open with you and Ofsted about what happened. Ofsted also use the information so if a nursery is having incidents at above the expected rate it should trigger an inspection.