Is this my sons fault or nursery’s fault?

[Mummymummymummyy]

I just had an email from my 4years old pre school saying there was an incident today and I need to sign the form when he next comes in- as they didn’t mention at pick up. The incident is that he opened the fire door which leads to the nursery main door which opens onto a busy road. The tone of the email is all about how bad it is my son did this and how shocked they all were. It says they they had a talk with him about safety and how bad it is to open the door, and can I also talk to him. I’m glad they took it seriously and mentioned it, but I’m kind of annoyed and wondering if I should be. Surely the issue is that a nursery isn’t properly child proof, if a door can be opened by a child. It’s not like I have taught him to open doors and although of course I will talk to him about it- surely they themselves need to address this. a precious nursery he went to had buttons up high to press to open doors, and buzzers etc.

am I unreasonable to be annoyed?

Ratio can be 1:13 if there's a member of staff with a level 6 qualification.
Realistically 2 or 3 adults (who are also helping children in the toilet and doing activities and dealing with fights and first aid) are not going to be watching 24+ children at all moments.

He’s nursery not primary or secondary! It’s absolutely ludicrous to expect children of all abilities to understand they must not open a fire door with a very tempting and easy push handle. Even if they keep that room for the “ oldest children “ some will still only just be 3. The building is not fit for purpose if they cannot rearrange so a firedoor that opens directly onto a main road is either monitored or relocated. How do they plan to evacuate a whole nursery with tiny tots and babies via a main road? I would be taking this further as it is 100% a serious safeguarding issue , your son is not to blame at all. Do they brief all the children in that room to never go near that door ?!! Bizarre!!

It doesn't open on to a road, and 3 and 4 year olds in nursery are definitely told not to do things like open doors (or climb furniture, or turn on all the taps in the bathroom, or touch the fire extinguishers).

I would assume that there would be a high catch on a fire door of a nursery to stop children opening it. Surely you just have the push bar or pad at adult height? The fact their wasn't is a massive safeguarding risk and the doors need changing.

I could understand in a school you would make the doors so that kids could open them
a) the kids are older and sensible enough to do so
b) you can have one teacher to 30 kids so it might be safer for the kids to go first and the teacher to watch that everyone is out.
c) the teach might have stepped out of the room for a few mins, with an ill kid or something

In a nursery though, anything that means the kids are left in a room on their own should NOT be happening. Even in an emergency.

When I worked in a preschool we just had a push bar emergency exit that opened on to the garden and the children were just told not to open it. That seems pretty normal to me.

Literally would be contacting the la and Ofsted on this matter! Under no circumstances is your son to blame!

This

What would the actual complaint be?
"A child opened a door they shouldn't have, never left the building, an incident report was recorded and parents informed, child was corrected/reminded about the rules".
I can't imagine that would get more than a phonecall from Ofsted since nothing happened and the nursery presumably has followed it's own procedures.

He did nothing wrong, I would be so angry OP, imagine he opened the main door and went onto the main road - this would have been awful 😞

I would definitely take this further, ask for it to be investigated and an apology is owed - to you.

They need to make sure that particular door cannot be opened easily by a child - perhaps by a button high up.

Also are fire doors not usually super heavy and strong that a 4 year old would struggle to open one?

They are clearly at fault, I wouldn’t sign any paper, it’s a major safeguarding issue they need to deal with. Can’t believe they’re blaming a child for their incompetence

Parent of four and twenty years plus experience in childcare here. It’s pathetic that the collective staff of a nursery believe that a four year old will never do something they’ve been told/asked/pleaded not do, regardless of how many times the instruction has been repeated and the implication of danger warned. They’re four year olds. They have limited impulse control. That’s why we place them in childcare to be supervised and kept safe, as opposed to leaving them to take care of their own safety 🫣🫣🫣

disability legislation / building standards means you are not allowed to have a high catch on a fire exit.

If they didn't teach him (and the other children his age) to absolutely not ever touch that door without an adult present, then no, it's not his fault. Especially nurseryworkers should know children are curious, always exploring, opening every door. At home we have a key on the door to the basement but when our grandchildren are here we also put on the chainlock that's high up where they can't reach it 🤷🏼‍♀️

Read the OP - “ opens directly onto a busy road “. Of course children are told not to touch stuff - but there’s a reason why, for example, sharp knives and boiling kettles are ( by regulation as well as common sense) kept away from tiny hands. You CANNOT rely on 3 and 4 year olds to follow rules - if you could nobody would hold a child’s hand crossing the road 🙄!!

There seems to be conflicting views here…on the one hand because it’s a fire door a child must be able to open it ….and…. 4 year olds should be taught not to open fire doors. So if the children are taught not to open the fire door then it might as well be unopenable for the children since they won’t trying to open it anyway…. In what circumstances would a 4 year old be leading the exodus from a building ablaze? There must be some sort of fire drill taught to the members of staff which I’d hope would include instructions for an adult to lead the children from the building rather than leaving that job to a 4 year old. My feeling is that if the fire door in question does lead onto a busy road then the likeliest danger to the children lies there.

You literally missed the bit of the quote saying it didn't open on to the main road 😂
"The incident is that he opened the fire door which leads to the nursery main door which opens onto a busy road."

This thread has got a bit hysterical, it's not a case of anyone really being 'at fault'
A child opened a door they shouldn't have and got into an area of the building they shouldn't be in - child was told not to do that.
Adults should have been ensuring no child messed with the door and I'm sure they have been told to be more careful of the door in future and particularly to watch this child!

At the end of the day though, nothing bad happened and no one was in danger?

Is there a law that says every door in the nursery needs to be locked? I've never come across that.
Lots of nurseries have unlocked internal doors.
That isn't a problem if the building is secure.

I was a Nursery Nurse for a long time in various different child care settings. Your son was in their care.
Of course speak to him about what the door is, what it’s used for, and when it’s meant to be used. What’s the context regarding your son opening the door? Was it a genuine mistake? Did he do it on purpose knowing he shouldn’t? This is relevant to the action you take with the nursery.

I worked for a long time in a nursery as a Nursery Practitioner. Mainly for younger children but worked sometimes in preschool and some doors are opened but the next door wasn’t something the children could have reached. Instead of moaning at you about this especially your innocent 4 year old, they need to look at their own safety practices! They are twisting this to be your son’s fault instead of taking responsibility!! Why was your child not being watched so they can’t do things like this! I personally would be complaining to the preschool!!

Actually looking at legislation for childcare you ARE allowed to have a high catch on fire exit provided, it can be opened by a simple touch, and in that setting it actually only prevents people exiting who would not be safe to exit alone.

If there were older children using the setting (who would be able to exit alone) or was a member of staff with short stature, or using a wheelchair, the catch would have to be in their reach, using another method of securing the younger children.

Ours blew open on windy days.
Nightmare.
Someone used to zip tie them shut.

That's not the interpretation our local fire services and building standards use. It must be accessible to any wheelchair user which may include a visitor or visiting professional. I would love it if your interpretation was the one our local enforcement used - it would make my life so much easier!

I work in education so don’t try and gaslight me into thinking that I am wrong on this.

One..who was actually responsible for supervising the child to ensure that he didn’t get somewhere he shouldn’t have been!

two…why is a door to a main road so easily accessible?

three…how is it so easily opened by a four year old

four…in what universe did the nursery think it was relevant to blame the child, when there should be better safeguarding procedures in place!