EYFS guidelines around children managing adults emotions

[OpenReader]

I’m looking for some advice from childcare providers or those who work in early years settings regarding the EYFS guidelines and best practices.

My DD attends nursery, and recently she has been told, both by the staff and in general nursery discussions that her shouting and behavior are making the practitioners feel sad. In particular, she has been told that using the word “no” makes them feel sad. While I completely support the nursery in guiding her toward appropriate behavior, I’m concerned about the use of emotional language. Nursery have told us that this is recommended best practice under the EYFS and I’m shocked. I don’t feel that a young child should be made to think that expressing herself, setting boundaries, or struggling with emotions is causing emotional distress to an adult especially whom she is in the care of

Is this kind of language and approach considered appropriate within the EYFS framework? I’d really appreciate any insights from those with experience in early years education as I’m struggling to find anything in there recommending this

Thanks in advance!

Ask them to show you where it says that. Although saying it makes them sad is hardly saying it causes them emotional distress!

It does sound like her behaviour and shouting is challenging for them and perhaps for the other children and they’re trying to reason with her.

She needs very clear boundaries at nursery and at home and needs to know that just as she has boundaries she wants others to respect she needs to also respect others boundaries.

How old is she?

I would not be happy about this. She is not responsible for their emotions.

If they are teaching early years they should be aware that you don’t want them to stop the behaviour because it “makes them sad” but because that behaviour is not appropriate.

It is not EYFS best practice. They are lying to you, so I would be incredibly concerned about their other failures.

The EYFS doesn’t recommend particular language or not!
I think it’s perfectly reasonable for someone to say so if your child is displaying a behaviour that upsets someone. your DD will come across people talking to /responding to /managing her behaviour in many different ways and you are not able to control that unless you never let her be looked after by anyone else.
also more context is needed really. For example “dd will you help tidy up please?” “No” “well that makes me feel a bit sad, it would be really kind if you would help please” would be absolutely fine imo. Your dd hitting/hurting an adult “please don’t hit me it makes me sad and it hurts” again, fine.

How do you think it should be approached?

(bearing in mind that the suggestion from a previous poster on ‘not appropriate’ is clearly not a meaningful explanation for that age group).

I never understand the phrase “not responsible for others emotions”
if I punch someone in the face, I accept that I have probably made them sad, angry and have also physically hurt them. How am I not responsible for making them feel that way?

if I have massively inconvenienced someone by being late or not turning up at all, I accept that I have probably annoyed them, made them feel like they have been let down, maybe rejected etc etc. Again how am I not responsible for that?
if I hadn’t done those things, they would not feel that way?! They should, I agree be able to control and limit those emotions but only to a certain extent surely? Am I missing something?

But why is the behaviour not appropriate? Because of the impact it has on others? It does depend what the behaviour is but understanding how you behave impacts others is a pretty key life lesson, imo.

How are this generation going to learn the impact that their behaviour has on others if we are not allowed to voice how it has made others feel?

No you're not. It's a faddy new age 'We must not upset our children' way of parenting. Fine at home, unsustainable in group setting childcare.

I don’t think that trying to get her to understand that her behaviour impacts others is a bad thing. Presumably her shouting and ‘behaviour’ is upsetting other children? What is she saying no to? What exactly does ‘setting boundaries’ mean in this scenario? Choosing not to play a particular game is different to refusing to come inside when asked to to stop throwing things etc etc…
Is it alright to say ‘that makes me sad’ when she’s hit someone for instance?

Hang on, “we must not upset our children” are we responsible for their emotions then but not the other way round? Are they allowed to tell me I’ve made them sad or will that upset me and I might accidentally tell them back? We’d be in a bit of a pickle then.

Context is everything.

I can almost guarantee they aren't telling her she's making them sad because she doesn't want to play a certain game or similar. Her behaviour is probably disrupting the class, hurting other children or property and generally not doing as she's asked. Saying no to a preference is one thing, saying no to coming inside at home time or whatever is quite another.

It depends on exactly what is happening and exactly what they're saying, but generally learning that your behaviour impacts other people is an absolutely vital part of social development so I can't see why it would be wrong in principle.

Having boundaries and being able to say no is extremely important, but so is working together and being cooperative, so again it depends.

If they're asking her for a cuddle and she says no and they're telling her off/saying they're upset etc. then that's completely out of line. Her boundary needs to be respected.

If she's slapped someone and they've told her that her behaviour has upset the other child/member of staff then that's absolutely fine because a) it's true and b) wanting to hit someone else isn't a boundary/want that we respect in society.

Absolutely👏

I would be worried that they’re telling her she can’t say no because it makes them feel sad, because it will teach her that she can’t have boundaries if it makes someone sad.

How old? I'd be more concerned about my 4 year old's behaviour if she were doing this than finding fault with underpaid staff trying their best. At what age does it become acceptable to say it is upsetting? Because quite honestly, for the class teacher when they get to Reception age it IS upsetting if they've planned an activity for 30 children and 29 are impacted by one saying they don't enjoy it. If there are SEN to be considered, that is fine but even then a better response can be taught. If it's simply a case of a child needing to learn that sometimes their needs aren't going to be prioritised in a group setting then the sooner they understand that the better I'd have thought.

And here is the reason why children’s behaviour is increasingly challenging.

I don't want to be unkind here OP but I honestly think you're being ridiculous. Children need to understand other people's boundaries and how their behaviour impacts on others. She won't be being told that for asserting a boundary but for unacceptable behaviour.

I’m an early years teacher and my rule of thumb is whether or not the statement is true. If a child has slapped another person in the face, or snatched something out of someone else’s hand, then it is reasonable to explain that that makes the other person feel sad, angry etc.It’s a good opportunity to encourage empathy and naming emotions etc. If an adult is spuriously claiming that they will be “sad” if a child doesn’t finish their peas or hold the scissors the right way up, that’s manipulative and poor practice.

I actually see where you are coming from with regard to the saying no makes me feel sad. I would hope there is much more context around it in reality though.

Children do need to learn what they do and how they behave, has an impact on others. But they are supposed to be supported to express things in a better way. And actually it is OK to upset others sometimes In terms of your own boundaries.

This ⬆ Children being expected to manage the emotions of adults comes up as a mode of abuse in all the books I've read so far about narcissist parents.

It's possible to tell a child to stop hitting, help tidy up, etc by appealing to fairness towards others and asking "would you like it if I did X to you?"

She’s 4. Her behaviour normally is amazing, everyday we are told at handover what a lovely, well behaved, kind child she is. Then yesterday we were told she was so badly behaved she made all the staff upset. She is Very upset even today that she’s made them sad. I’m cross that they are saying this is best practice when I can’t read anywhere that it is

It would be perfectly reasonable if for example the child is asked to help tidy up after an activity, and they refuse.

Thank you, this is exactly my concern. She obviously wasn’t an angel yesterday but this absolutely isn’t the way to improve her behaviour

And actually it is OK to upset others sometimes In terms of your own boundaries.

☝👏 This. Little girls need to know that they can say "no" when a boy asks them out (or for sex, etc) and that his disappointment is not her fault nor her problem.

“she was so badly behaved” did you ask what she did? Do you even care what she did? Do you feel any empathy for the poorly paid staff that had to deal with that? Or any other children her behaviour might have impacted?
I feel like you’re deflecting and focusing on the wrong thing here completely!