EYFS guidelines around children managing adults emotions

[OpenReader]

I’m looking for some advice from childcare providers or those who work in early years settings regarding the EYFS guidelines and best practices.

My DD attends nursery, and recently she has been told, both by the staff and in general nursery discussions that her shouting and behavior are making the practitioners feel sad. In particular, she has been told that using the word “no” makes them feel sad. While I completely support the nursery in guiding her toward appropriate behavior, I’m concerned about the use of emotional language. Nursery have told us that this is recommended best practice under the EYFS and I’m shocked. I don’t feel that a young child should be made to think that expressing herself, setting boundaries, or struggling with emotions is causing emotional distress to an adult especially whom she is in the care of

Is this kind of language and approach considered appropriate within the EYFS framework? I’d really appreciate any insights from those with experience in early years education as I’m struggling to find anything in there recommending this

Thanks in advance!

But a 4yo needs to be taught what 'boundaries' are appropriate, and saying no to tidying up or coming in from playtime or sitting on the carpet or whatever it is isn't it!

This.

We have not been told what the DD is accused of doing so I don't see how you can list behaviours like that.

I absolutely did. I was on the phone first thing this morning to find out what had happened as nothing was communicated at handover.
Under no circumstances do I support any bad behaviour from her and in the almost 4 years she has been in childcare we have had 1 instance of bad behaviour prior to yesterday.

Exactly - it sounds like the staff are showing a boundary so she can find her own “healthy” boundary. That’s how we learn

Ok great. If you’re not happy with how they manage her “behaviour” then remove her.
But you cannot control how people respond to your dd or whether or not they feel upset/impacted by her behaviour. They are allowed to voice their feelings.
I genuinely believe it is good for children to hear how their behaviour has impacted others, it teaches empathy, consideration for others etc.
this was clearly about negative behaviour rather than her voicing a choice or her own boundary and in that instance it is absolutely appropriate to let her know that it is upsetting for others.

But the reason she needs to do it isn’t because it makes someone sad when she doesn’t. She needs to tidy up so that toys don’t get broken/ there’s space to play a different game. She needs to sit on the carpet so that everyone can concentrate on the story.

This was exactly my point when I spoke with the manger and when she asked me how I would handle this situation at home it’s word for word what I said. There are reasons why we do things and the main one isn’t that ‘it makes grown ups upset’

But actually, it makes me sad when lovely toys at nursery get broken and it also makes me sad when their friends can’t listen to the story because they are pissing about.
why is it unreasonable for me to voice that?

Yes and no are basic words children use to give consent to things. It's autonomy.

If an adult says something like "will you come over here and play with me" and a child says "no" because they're doing something else and then an adult says "aw that makes me sad" that's basically emotional manipulation.

If something is not optional then it should not be posed as a question.

If a child is declining or refusing to do something that is a statement rather than a question, then there are other ways adults can and should redirect that child as opposed to using emotional manipulation.

I was at a soft play where a grandparent said to their grandchild can I have a kiss and the child said no and the grandparent started faux-crying and the child gave in and gave them a kiss, which completely overrode the child's consent and made them feel responsible for making sure the grandparent was no longer upset.

There's a difference between teaching your child that they're responsible for their own actions and actions have consequences, and teaching children that they're responsible for the emotions of others.

I’d consider it acceptable to say we need to tidy up so that the toys don’t get broken because that would make me sad - that’s the possible event that makes you sad. She understands the possible consequences of not doing it.

If you say she must do x otherwise you’ll be sad, she doesn’t understand what it is that makes you sad, so she thinks she has to follow anything she’s told to do.

With the 'it makes me sad' I feel you need the why it made you sad as well.

Whereas with if you give the reason why it makes you feel sad you can chose to share the feeling or not and it still makes sense.

Yes, of course.

Head round to their house, knock door, present a handmade card, punch mother in face, ask for a reward, scream at mother, kick shin and ask how she feels. Is she ‘warm & fuzzy’…..

Yes, completely agree. I think the point I’m really trying to make is that op seems very focused on potentially the wrong thing and not the possibility that there could have been context where it was perfectly reasonable for a practitioner to state that it made them feel upset.

Thank you. Yes I do actually understand that.
however I really don’t think it’s unreasonable for someone to voice that a negative behaviour has made them sad. I wasn’t talking about manipulation and narcissism.

At the age of 3, children struggle to regulate their emotions. If she is having big, intense reactions—shouting or getting frustrated when told no—adults should not say, “You’re making me sad.”

A caregiver should be able to manage their own emotions, allowing the child to feel safe expressing themselves.

However, if she is shouting at others for no reason, part of her learning should include understanding that her behavior impacts those around her.

This is ridiculous. Unlike a child, an adult has the emotional understanding and you’d hope intelligence to explain that a child isn’t able to say no from a point of for example safety if their poor behaviour is a risk ie throwing objects, hitting a child. Not because it’s makes them sad!? What kind of nonsense is this! Teaching a child that they can’t advocate for their own choices or say no when it’s necessary incase it upsets an adult is so damaging. This is absolute woke bullshit at its finest. Feelings over logic and reasoning. How would a child in this setting know how to disclose a safeguarding concern ie sexual abuse if they’re too scared to question an adult because they’ve been taught people’s feelings are more important than having boundaries. I’d go absolutely nuclear over this.

It’s not unreasonable for people to say they’re upset when something genuinely hurtful happens.
I just think this is a different situation. There are better ways to help a child understand or cooperate without using emotional reactions especially when what they actually need is clear guidance and support.
Like others have said, it’s fine to say something like “if these toys get broken, we won’t be able to play with them and that would be sad” because it shows cause and effect. But saying “I’ll be sad if you don’t do this” doesn’t explain anything it just shifts the emotional weight onto the child, and that’s where it crosses into manipulation.

Yes I agree that saying “I’ll be sad if you don’t do this” is not appropriate at all and is manipulative. Context and careful wording is everything.

The EYFS requires teaching children to name and recognise a range of emotions, and manage their own emotions.

I think often, nursery staff use 'you're making me sad' as a gentler way of saying 'that's naughty'.
Staff know they cannot call behaviour bad or naughty, or shout, or punish children or put them in time out. So it has become an alternative type of behaviour management.
"It makes me sad when you hit your friends/throw toys/don't sit on the carpet nicely" - it's just a way of expressing that behaviour isn't acceptable here.

EYFS Development Matters. - Gov. Guidance.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/64e6002a20ae890014f26cbc/DfE_Development_Matters_Report_Sep2023.pdf

Personal, Social & Emotional Development includes expressing feelings and considering how others feel. (age 3-4) and obviously developmentally this increases age 4-5. ( included in the document).

So what is the alternative?
Amy please don’t spit in my face, that will make me angry? Or other harsher word?
Or simply Amy, we don’t spit in someone’s face, that’s wrong? I would argue simply stating that somethings wrong doesn’t land with kids as they have no moral compass at that age, you’re effectively saying “no because no”. So explaining the impact of the action (makes me sad) will resonate more with that child and discourage from continuing said action.

Someone upthread said that context is everything (which as far as I read, OP you still haven’t said what she did) - I agree. If your child was expressing herself by saying ‘no’ to someone invading her personal space and was faced with ‘don’t say no it makes me sad’ I’d agree it doesn’t sit well, but it doesn’t sound like this was the case.

Why are you so concerned about proving the nursery wrong in their approach over a one off incident? Try and move on. There’s nothing wrong with telling someone they made you feel sad.

You need to get to the bottom of why she is angry at nursery. I used to work in a nursery, we didn’t really have angry outbursts because the children were looked after and any stressful interactions or unkindness was quickly defused by an adult carer and the kids felt safe. It sounds to me that your child doesn’t feel safe and she is getting angry when other children are behaving poorly around her or encroaching on her boundaries while the staff ignore the situation.
To be honest I would pull her out. It sounds like she is not being protected from the other children and the staff are chastising her for standing up for herself. We are living in interesting times.