Do I have to pay for the supervision lunch charge if my son (4y.o.) is eligible for free school meals?

[reablaz]

Hello,

Do I have to pay for the supervision lunch charge if my son (4y.o.) is eligible for free school meals?

I have applied for free school meals recently, and received an email saying my child is eligible for free school meals.

The school charges parents £382 per academic year for the supervision at lunch time between 11:30 and 12:15 every day (45min), which is £2 per day (£10 a week, £382 per year in total); doesn't not matter if a child eats school meals (free or not), or bring their own lunch boxes with home food (schools still have to supervise and charge for it).

Google AI says if a child is eligible for free school meals, parents do not have to pay for supervision charge. We also receive 30 free hours.

Google/AI:
"Yes, if your child is eligible for free school meals, the supervision charge during lunchtime is typically covered, as the school is required to provide proper facilities and supervision for all pupils to eat their meals safely, regardless of whether they pay for lunch or not; this includes children receiving free school meals."

Government website:
"Facilities to eat the food that they bring to school must be provided free of charge for pupils not taking school meals. As a minimum these facilities should include accommodation, furniture and supervision so that pupils can eat food they have brought from home in a safe and social environment."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/standards-for-school-food-in-england/school-food-in-england#:~:text=Facilities%20to%20eat%20the%20food,a%20safe%20and%20social%20environment.

I am confused, do we have to pay for the supervision or not?

Is it allowed by law for the school to charge for the supervision?

I am looking for calm and relevant answers with no criticism, arrogance, sarcasm or irony. If it is not the right place, please let me know, if there are any communities, forums, groups where I can ask these questions; or possibly, should I call to my district council, school itself or citizens advice?

Thank you.

Your reply is calm, which I can tolerate comparing to other commentators. I can apply, and pass the form to school.

But, a logical question, why would you run a school if you schools all over the UK are underfunded, and then brag for money from parents? If I were a school principal, I would not run it in the first place, because I do not want to harass parents and beg for money... It is government's and school's responsibility to get the money, not parents. I have lots of other things to do in my personal, family life.

What an odd thing to say. If they didn’t run the schools you would just be complaining that there were no schools! As pp said, nursery is not compulsory so if you don’t like it, don’t go.

the reason they ask you to apply is frankly so simple - they don’t know your personal circumstances, only you do. Therefore only you can determine if you are eligible.

I am okay with that, does school have to show parents, how did they use the fund for their child? If I don't see the clear picture how it would benefit my child, the results, I do not bother to apply. I don't need this fund to save money, but if it was possible to cover the supervision lunch charge cost, I would use it. If not, I am okay without the fund. It is my opinion, you have your own opinion, apply for the fund yourself to benefit the school if you want to help the school, and you have time for that. I am focussed to help my family, not the school.

By helping your school, you will also be helping your family. Your attitude stinks.

It sucks. And as so many people say - their EYPP policy will be on their website or attainable.

im genuinely disgusted someone wouldn’t want to help their child by not filling out a form.

What kind of lawful notice you would give? Hahaha! :D For asking questions??? MIND YOUR BUSINESS! Tell to your children and parents what to do, GIVE THEM a notice for your behaviour! I don't discuss your opinion, so please be respective and tolerate my opinion. Conversation finished with you!

Not sure how you can be entitled to 30 hours and fsm (unless talking about all the fsm reception -year 2) you need to earn under 7.4k a year for fsm. That's less than about 12 hours a week on minimum wage in that case you would not get 30 hours nursery because you need to work a lot more hours than 12 to receive that

Your one of the demanding parents who tell other how to live and what to do. You like to harass other parents for their lives and opinions. I was just asking a question about EYPP if we can use it towards the cost, which school created, and which might be unlawful. Why unlawful? Because some of the commentators in the forum said the school should use the guidance released by the government and not to create artificial breaks in between the sessions, which they clearly don't do.
Your rudeness is over the limits, that is why I wrote a comment at the end of my first message for such people with extreme critics as you are. I will block you if it is possible in this forums. If not, I will try to report your harassing comments. Have a "wonderful" life!

This confused me too but think there are some other use cases like asylum seekers.

I am not moaning. I have asked questions, and received replies. The other person explained the acronyms and abbreviations, which I did not understand. Thank you for this to the person who tried to help.

The government created funds and benefits. They don't tell you how to use it, but they are for the people who live in the UK. We have to discover how the system works on our own. I apply for many things, and then I see what's going to happen. If my application is rejected for x reason, which I understand, I am fine with that; if it is accepted, oh, it is good, why not. I don't go into details, why my family was entitled to something, I did not decide, it was LA decision.

Do not worry about supervision lunch charge, I will sort it out.

Thank you for your message, and explanation. There is no clarity how the school spends the money, I don't see the results, I am not informed about the outcome, about how the school helped children with disadvantages. I don't know even what kind of special needs my son would need, and what school would do for him directly. They never say. If I want to go for a parent meeting, there is non available after 17:00 (when I finished my work). I have my health issues, so I can't come before work (before 9:00 in the morning). The only times they give these are while I am at work. To go on a such meeting, I have to spend half a day of my holiday entitlement, which is not good, it could be spent for family holidays. So, the only way is to make a phone call appointment with a teacher, to check how the things are going, or my wife only can find time to go on parents meetings, because she is flexible in regards to work/school.

Go and do your thing, I will go and do my thing. Your behaviour is disrespectful, because I DO NOT TELL YOU WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO WITH YOUR SCHOOL!
I am not helping my family, show me. That is why I never support any charities, or TV ads, where they ask to donate. There is no clarity, nothing is clear, where exactly the money goes. And as I mentioned, I am focussed on my family, not the school. If most of the family and personal issues sorted, then a person can focus (and have a with, desire) on something what is happening with schools, charities, etc.

You know that teachers also have children and lives as well? They don’t get paid to hang around after hours to accommodate your health and work problems.

Why should they spend their free time well beyond school hours so that you can meet with them?

You seem to want to be spoon fed everything by the school. You need to take some accountability for your child’s education and work with the school not view them as at fault for not delivering information perfectly at a time that suits you.

EYPP goes directly to the setting your child is in, to support their education. The setting decides how the EYPP is spent, for which your child would benefit. When your child is school-age it is called PP or Pupil Premium and again, it goes directly to your child's setting and they decide how it is spent. It goes towards things that make sure your child is not disadvantaged or penalised by coming from a low income family. (Example being things like school trips, after school clubs - you contribution to the costs of running these activities will come from the PP, so your child doesn't miss out).

So when someone says 'apply for EYPP to support the school', this is what they mean: support your school by applying for funding so that your child will benefit from the EYPP. If you don't apply, your school won't get the funding and your child might miss out.

Edit to add: you can ask your child's school how they will use the funding to support your child.

So the school staff need to be flexible in their working hours but you can't be?

And it is okay. School does their business, I am doing my business. And it is fine. Nobody has to do anything for parents or for schools. Only what is required. That is it. Teachers live their school lives and work. I live my life, and I care about my job. They have no time for parents, parents have no time for schools. It is normal. Just do what is required by law to do.

If nobody is flexible, it is better to organise a phone call within their and mine working hours.

I don't know even what kind of special needs my son would need, and what school would do for him directly. They never say.

If your child has special needs, the school will communicate this with you and your child would be put on a register of children with special or additional needs, called the SEN register.

If your child is on the SEN register, the school will receive extra funding in their budget to provide support to meet your child's needs and all the other children on the SEN register. This funding will be for the school to use and your child will benefit. It could be used to fund more resources, more teaching assistants, or specific interventions (like play therapy or whatever is required).

The funding the school receives for special needs is separate to the EYPP funding.

Hi @reablaz,

The system is hard to navigate for sure… and sometimes it does seem deliberate, to make it hard for people to question their rights.

A couple of answers from me:

1. Children in nursery are not entitled to free school meals, because they are not technically in school yet (it is confusing when the nursery class is part of school premises!). Once your child starts in Reception, free school meals become available. I suspect maybe the person who told you you were eligible meant that you would be eligible from September based on your income or other status, and hadn’t realised your child was still in nursery.
2. All children are entitled to free school meals in years Reception, Year 1 and 2, so you don’t have to apply for this. However, if you would be eligible for other reasons, such as income or asylum status, it is worth doing, because then the school gets extra money, and that will indirectly benefit your child further.
3. I think they are unlawfully applying the lunch break rules, and in fact I don’t know any other state schools who charge for supervision like this. If you are willing to share which Local Authority you live in, someone might be able to tell you who to contact to challenge this.

I hope that helps. Good luck:)

With regards to number 2 he’s already said he doesn’t want apply for EYPP as he doesn’t get it directly and if the school doesn’t get the funding that’s not his problem, nor does he care.

Just catching up on this thread and am feeling vindicated about my first post now I've read op's further posts.

Good afternoon, MolluscMonday

Thank you for your polite and respectful answer and explanation. I don't know why some people are rude in the comments.

I would be unable to accommodate your child due to a change in personal circumstances. A perfectly acceptable, and lawful, reason for giving notice.

Thankfully I don't need in my setting, I have delightful families, one of which is eligible for EYPP and I have used the money to directly help this child in my setting. This is the reason the parent sends the child to me, so I can teach and nurture and help the child and family. Luckily, the parents are happy for this as they know the child is the priority, not spiteful like you to prevent the EYPP funding being paid to me.

Luckily, I don't have to deal with your setting when you discriminate families and children who ask questions, and find acceptable by law, but fake in reality reasons (because the reason behind is - I don't like parents who ask questions). Tell me the name of your nursery, so I better spend some time to write a bad review, and make a complaint to the authorities.

I see, you like to argue similar to some other people in this forums, and shout the mouths of parents (NO questions!). :D

I did not say I don't want the nurseries to use EYPP. I said I don't see the clarity, and nobody is saying to me how would they accommodate my child. From my perspective is, I apply, and that is it, I see no change, no contact from nursery, nothing. I don't need EYPP to be mine, I have just asked if the nursery/school can use it towards supervision lunch charge. And some people are saying it is unlawful to make an artificial break between sessions, providing a lawful reason why - the government guidelines. And I would be thankful to you if I see the results of why did I apply for EYPP, and if you helped my child, or organised something beneficial to all children with EYPP (including mine), but I just need to be aware of it.