Do I have to pay for the supervision lunch charge if my son (4y.o.) is eligible for free school meals?

[reablaz]

Hello,

Do I have to pay for the supervision lunch charge if my son (4y.o.) is eligible for free school meals?

I have applied for free school meals recently, and received an email saying my child is eligible for free school meals.

The school charges parents £382 per academic year for the supervision at lunch time between 11:30 and 12:15 every day (45min), which is £2 per day (£10 a week, £382 per year in total); doesn't not matter if a child eats school meals (free or not), or bring their own lunch boxes with home food (schools still have to supervise and charge for it).

Google AI says if a child is eligible for free school meals, parents do not have to pay for supervision charge. We also receive 30 free hours.

Google/AI:
"Yes, if your child is eligible for free school meals, the supervision charge during lunchtime is typically covered, as the school is required to provide proper facilities and supervision for all pupils to eat their meals safely, regardless of whether they pay for lunch or not; this includes children receiving free school meals."

Government website:
"Facilities to eat the food that they bring to school must be provided free of charge for pupils not taking school meals. As a minimum these facilities should include accommodation, furniture and supervision so that pupils can eat food they have brought from home in a safe and social environment."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/standards-for-school-food-in-england/school-food-in-england#:~:text=Facilities%20to%20eat%20the%20food,a%20safe%20and%20social%20environment.

I am confused, do we have to pay for the supervision or not?

Is it allowed by law for the school to charge for the supervision?

I am looking for calm and relevant answers with no criticism, arrogance, sarcasm or irony. If it is not the right place, please let me know, if there are any communities, forums, groups where I can ask these questions; or possibly, should I call to my district council, school itself or citizens advice?

Thank you.

@reablaz they can’t insist on a forced break in the 30 hour funding. Families should be able to access the full 30 hours without incurring any additional costs.

As I said earlier, the school is within the funding agreement if it puts a chargeable session at the beginning of the day eg 8.30am to 9.15 am, but then offers a full 6 hour day 9.15 to 3.15. Parents can then do 6 hours per day, 5 days a week.

Lots and lots of settings find ways to generate extra income - having a paid session at the beginning of the day is just one of them.

As I suggested earlier, contact your local authority funding team and tell them that the school is insisting on a forced, chargeable break in the middle of the day, and you are unable to access your 30 hour entitlement without paying the charge. They will be able to look into it and challenge it, if necessary.

There are some nursery "schools" with actual nursery school teachers and an actual headteacher, as opposed to a childcare type nursery/preschool. When my children were at one and we were briefly in dire staits our children received free school meals in "nursery school". The op's child appears to be at a nursery at an actual school. Therefore I believe the child IS eligible for fsm. Just to be clear I have never been in a famous band, btw......

My son brought his lunch from home, and while eating it for 45 min, they charge for this time. So, I assume, we have to pay, no matter if we bring our own meals or pay/get free school meals (in nursery)...

I suspect so because it falls outside the funded session times. It might allow the school to access pupil premium funding rather than specifically a fsm. Will he eat the school meal?

Ate you sure the email isn't referring to when he starts school in September? It might just be poorly worded. As in: your child is eligible for free school meals, make sure you apply, ready for September so that he will get them.

@reablaz please do as I suggest and contact the local authority funding team. You SHOULD NOT be forced to pay for a supervision charge. You SHOULD be able to access your 30 hours without forced breaks and without charge. The school IS allowed to ask for a voluntary contribution if you are only accessing your 30 hours, but not a mandatory charge.

I'm also confused.... if you're eligible for 30 hours funding, it means you're both in work earning £183/each per week.

So this would mean you earn too much for free school meals which is a household income under £7400 or thereabouts.

Ie you can't be eligible for both.

Beginning to feel this thread is a wind up because something just doesn't add up.

This screen shot (yellow text) taken from the statutory guidance makes the position clear with regard to forced breaks.

Nobody explains how the educational system works in the UK, and you can ask every foreigner, and most of them will say to you they do not understand it. So don't blame, because you never been in foreigner's shoes. It doesn't matter if the person has to pay for something or not.

I wasn't born in the UK either. But if you can manage to deal with applications for funded hours and FSM I'd say you've capable of understanding the difference between nursery and reception.

@reablaz your son is in nursery not reception if he only turned 4 in December. I hope you know that you have to apply for a primary school place for September because he does not automatically get to stay in the school unless you apply and get allocated a place there.

He'll get the free school lunch from September 2025 when he joins Reception. They all get free school meals in Reception, Year 1 and Year 2.

This isn't true. The school can put a chargeable session at the beginning or end of the day. They are currently going against the statutory guidance by having an artificial/enforced break in the middle of the day.

ahh I didn’t realise this! I worked at a school where we did charge but it was in the morning and didn’t realise it wasn’t possible in the middle.

Ive reported my post as incorrect hopefully will take down.

This might be helpful to you in understanding the England/wales school system dates for your child. Scotland is different.

https://schoolwix.com/uk

I am also not from the UK, however the department of education resources available are crystal clear so there should be no barriers to understand the system if you have access to the internet

https://www.gov.uk/schools-admissions/school-starting-age

Some people replied with abbreviations, which makes it more difficult, and confuses. I had to Google it, to find out what it means. N1, N2 - nursery year 1 and 2, R - reception, E1, E2 - Early year 1 and 2...

I assume, the local authority will say the school gives access those 30 hours (8:30-11:30, 12:15-15:15, 6h). They just make a lunch break for the staff, and some staff are supervising children at the same time (some children eat their lunches too either brought from home or paid at school).

I assume, the school is allowed to do that, because any parent if they want, can collect their children 11:30-12:15 for a lunch and then come back with them at 12:15 to continue the school day. They don't have to make these 45 minutes in the morning... They did it in between. Every child still gets 6h per day funded. If parents do not want to pay for the supervision lunch charge in between 2 sessions, they can collect their children and bring back after 45 min. I assume z this kind of loop in a law is allowed, and also staff have to eat their lunches between the sessions, which is not funded by the government.

You still think it is possible to challenge with the local authority the supervision lunch a charge?

Have you spoken to the school about it? Before going to the local authority I would start there. The school themselves will be making the charge as they will be using to pay the staff so seems like you should start your conversation there.

I want to ask my child's school about free school meals and Early Ears Pupil Premium on Monday.

Yes OP, the local authority will be able to challenge the school. You have the working parents funding of 30 hours. Working parents cannot break off at lunch time to bring their children home.
Although if you need more than 30 hours childcare a week, you will be required to pay for those extra sessions on top of the 30 hours.

@reablaz no, the enforced break should not be happening. Did you read my screenshot? It’s taken from the government guidance.

@reablaz - I think my screenshot is still under review.

The statutory guidance says...

'Local authorities should ensure that children are able to take up their free hours in continuous blocks if they wish to, and there should be no artificial breaks in the entitlement hours. For example a provider should not offer 10am to midday and 1pm to 3pm as entitlement hours and offer only private paid hours in between.'

They said it is mandatory charge if I want to use 30 free hours (both, morning and afternoon sessions). Or the other option, they said, is to take my son away from school for 45 min, and then bring him back (then I would not pay for lunchtime supervision charge). No other options are available.

Do staff have to make their own breaks for lunch withing 6 hours a day (funded)?

I presume you mean he was born on 17/12/20, in which case he turned

• 3 on 17/12/23
• 4 on 17/12/24
• and will turn 5 on 17/12/25

He will there be in nursery now and will go in reception in Sept 25 turning 5 on 17/12/25. At Nursery you will get the 30 free hours, but anything above that you will pay for. You may also pay for "extras" above the basic care, which could include consumables (food, nappies, wipes etc), or extras such as trips. No free school meals.

He will go on to reception in Sept 25, and after that he will get free school meals in for the first 3 years. You won't have to pay for supervision/teaching for any of the statutory hours (9ish-3ish mon-fri term-time) and you won't have to pay for extras on a normal day. You would have to pay for trips if they were going somewhere with costs such as a coach or entry fee, and maybe for any clubs he wanted to do. They might also run a breakfast and afterschool club which he could go to if you work longer than 9-3 and you might have to pay for these.

They are absolutely not allowed to have a mandatory charge if you want to access the 30 hours.

Hang on, I'll find the reference to that in the statutory guidance...