Do I have to pay for the supervision lunch charge if my son (4y.o.) is eligible for free school meals?

[reablaz]

Hello,

Do I have to pay for the supervision lunch charge if my son (4y.o.) is eligible for free school meals?

I have applied for free school meals recently, and received an email saying my child is eligible for free school meals.

The school charges parents £382 per academic year for the supervision at lunch time between 11:30 and 12:15 every day (45min), which is £2 per day (£10 a week, £382 per year in total); doesn't not matter if a child eats school meals (free or not), or bring their own lunch boxes with home food (schools still have to supervise and charge for it).

Google AI says if a child is eligible for free school meals, parents do not have to pay for supervision charge. We also receive 30 free hours.

Google/AI:
"Yes, if your child is eligible for free school meals, the supervision charge during lunchtime is typically covered, as the school is required to provide proper facilities and supervision for all pupils to eat their meals safely, regardless of whether they pay for lunch or not; this includes children receiving free school meals."

Government website:
"Facilities to eat the food that they bring to school must be provided free of charge for pupils not taking school meals. As a minimum these facilities should include accommodation, furniture and supervision so that pupils can eat food they have brought from home in a safe and social environment."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/standards-for-school-food-in-england/school-food-in-england#:~:text=Facilities%20to%20eat%20the%20food,a%20safe%20and%20social%20environment.

I am confused, do we have to pay for the supervision or not?

Is it allowed by law for the school to charge for the supervision?

I am looking for calm and relevant answers with no criticism, arrogance, sarcasm or irony. If it is not the right place, please let me know, if there are any communities, forums, groups where I can ask these questions; or possibly, should I call to my district council, school itself or citizens advice?

Thank you.

Contrary to what some posters have said here, children of your son’s age who attend both morning and afternoon sessions of a school nursery class, and meet the benefit or other free school school
meals criteria, are entitled to free school lunches.

The charging for lunchtime supervision is a separate issue and I would suggest you ask the school why they can’t use the early years pupil premium funding to cover your child’s ‘supervision’ cost. They really should not be seeking £40 per month from a family with earned income of less than £7,400 per annum.

Also, this is a school nursery. They are not going to be restricting the number of funded places they offer.

Oh come on. That’s really unnecessary. For all you know, this person could be an asylum seeker or a refugee or just … unfamiliar with the English system and a relatively new arrival.

Many countries including several in Europe actually have completely different structures for early years and schooling. Whether it’s called ‘nursery’ or ‘reception’ might not seem like a significant distinction to this poster. And to be honest, it’s not that different actually: both nursery 1&2, and reception year, fall under the early years foundation stage. That is, they are part of a common phase.

Says the one who couldn't count to 4.

I can find a few reasons.

Maybe the parent is an immigrant and English is her second language and 'nursery' means something else in their home country.

Maybe she is from Ireland and the system there is different.

There are different education systems in England (Scotland has a totally different system) I moved as a child, so I went from an infants' school to a first school then to a junior school and high school at 11.

My brother attended the first two schools but then had a year at a middle school before going to a high school when we moved again.

High school for us were comprehensive schools, I know in grammar areas high schools are secondary modern schools in all but name.

@sashh

Neither my partner or I were born in the UK but minimal engagement with the process should mean you know if there are in nursery or reception after 6 months.

Particularly if your English is good enough to navigate other govt guidance and claim forms.

I also can’t work out how you could be eligible for both the 30 hours and FSMs at the same time, regardless of whether some nurseries apply FSMs in the second year.
There is a minimum earnings threshold for one and a maximum earnings amount for the other and they are quite different!

Good afternoon,

I phoned the school, I didn't want to, but... I was advised here and wanted to clarify some things... I am a parent... kind of "pain in the a*", but, I assume, questions asked here would annoy anyone in any school/nursery... I hope they won't refuse giving my son a place in their school, because I have asked them these questions. Can they use another reason (lawful, so there is no discrimination) to refuse my son going to their reception year, because of parent annoying questions?

a) FSM - lady said, my son is entitled to FSM but they do not offer any for nursery kids at all. They said I have to give him home food in his lunch box. That is it. They said he would get the meals in September 2025 when he stars reception. I am not sure if it is allowed by law to refuse to give free lunches to nursery kids because they just "do not provide them for nursery children"... can you comment on this? Me and my wife are okay to give our son home meals, that is fine.

b) Supervision lunch charge and EYPP. The lady from finance said as my son is eligible for free meals, he is also is eligible for EYPP, and they can see it on their system. They have received a confirmation from the OFSM Team. I just have to complete the form and bring it to them. BUT, they said the government pays it directly to them, and it cannot be used against supervision lunch charge. It would be used to more direct support for my son, more 1 to 1, any additional needs, something like that.

c) I have also mentioned the government guidance towards 30 free hours to this lady as well:

"A1.43 Local authorities should ensure that providers work with parents so that parents understand which hours and sessions can be taken as free provision. Not all providers will be able to offer fully flexible places, but providers should work with parents to ensure that as far as possible the pattern of the entitlement hours are convenient for parents’ working hours. Local authorities should ensure that children are able to take up their free hours in continuous blocks if they wish to, and there should be no artificial breaks in the entitlement hours. For example a provider should not offer 10am to midday and 1pm to 3pm as entitlement hours and offer only private paid hours in between."

Early education and childcare (effective from 1 April 2025) - GOV.UK

She said the supervision lunch charge is for teachers (staff) lunch. They cannot make 6 consecutive hours. It is how it is. There is not enough hands to supervise kids while they are on a 45 minutes lunch, as I understood from the conversation.

---

At the end of the conversation I have asked if I can ask those questions via email just to confirm. She said yes, different people would have to answer my questions. She said they an put it in writing if needed.

So, I assume, I can just call my local authority to question if school is complying with the law.

1. Can they split 30 hours or not?
2. Can they charge for 45 min or not (in between the sessions)?
3. Why can't they use EYPP towards the yearly cost of £382 for supervision lunch charge?
4. Why can't my son use his entitlement of FSM in nursery? Do they have to abide what the OFSM Team said?

I assume, it is not worth to bother about all of the questions above. It is just wasting of time, don't you think so?
The only thing I can do is to make a complaint about the school/nursery to my local authority; my son will start going to reception year when the complaint is going to be resolved. And the deadline to pay for supervision lunch charge, I think, it is until end of July or August 2025, so I would have to pay for it by then. Also, I can apply for EYPP, but it won't be useful for us at all, they will just take the sum of £388 to use for the school/nursery purposes, how can I check what they are going to use it for?

Yes, call the LA and tell them exactly what you’ve put here. They will be able to help BUT as I’ve said previously, if your school week is longer than the 30 hours of funding AND you need that extra childcare, you WILL have to pay for it even if you get your meals paid for.

Think you might be better directing your questions to the LA who provides the funding for Early Years and Pupil Premium. It may well be that pp has to be applied for educational opportunities. Is it same staff supervising lunch as teaching?

How are you working full time but entitled to FSM and EYPP? It makes me think something has gone wrong in the system. You can only earn a max of £7400 a year. In which case you wouldn't be entitled to 30 funded hours.

As far as I'm aware EYPP is spent on education and extra experiences or staff to help support the children who come under this. Not regular costs. The providers have to show what its been spent on.

EYPP is as they said money paid directly to the school which is used to support ALL children who are eligible. I am very sorry to tell you this but resources in schools are very stretched and to expect individualised attention on to how the funding used is just untenable. The money will be pooled and used for certain projects - it is not a case of Child X receives this much and we will spend that amount on child X. you can ask for a a copy of their EYPP policy.

i am also very confused how you are eligiable for fsm and have 30 hours to support working parents as you must each be working at least 16 hours a week but also you earn less than £7400 a year??

Also - please fill out the EYPP form. This is vital money to support the school. The attitude of ‘they don’t spend it how I want’ sucks.

Goodness you sound like a nightmare! Literally out for anything you can get but won't apply for EYPP unless they knock it off your bill. It's not for that, there's obviously social issues why you are eligible (as opposed to financial) so pay your bill!

I'm here to ask questions, not to support the school. Mind your business, and support your school, don't tell anyone just yourself what to do.

I'll decide myself what to do with my bill and with EYPP, mind your business, and don't tell anyone what they have to do

Nursery is not compulsory. There is no requirement for a nursery to provide a meal. They are within their rights to ask you to send a packed lunch.

Reception is the name given to the first year of compulsory schooling (i.e. starting in the September that children are 4).

If you're in England, all infant (reception, y1 and y2) children are entitled to universal free school meals (i.e. no need to apply). However some children will also be entitled to income based free school meals.

If a child is eligible for income based free school meals then please do apply even though you may not see a difference personally, as this generates pupil premium, which is extra income for the school. Schools are massively underfunded and really rely on this income.

It's not for parents to decide what the school spends EYPP on.
It's for the school.
They have to prove how it is spent to benefit the child's educational outcomes.
It's not a fund to help parents save money.

I would imagine that you are entitled to EYPP due to either your child having SEN or due to being an asylum seeker.

This money is for the school, not to save you money.
Government website says "Early years pupil premiumYour child’s early years education provider could get up to £388 per year to help with your child’s education. This will be paid direct to your provider."It is clear that it is for the school, not for you.

I'm assuming he did the early start in nursery and is in his second year of nursery?

Our school offers option to pay £2 per day of pick up an hour earlier

Thankfully you don't get to choose. You sound awful. I'd have given you notice at my setting, I feel sorry for your nursery.

I woukd apply for EYPP. Our school is using some of it to fund instrument lessons for children who receive the funding. You don't know what might become available to you.

Our school also ran sessions the way yours does - 8.30-11.30 and 12.30-3.30 with 30 hour children having to pay for the middle hour or go home to eat. I can see they are not meant to. It is probably worth it for most people to avoid complicated pick up times where half the class goes home before the other half. There are generally much higher costs in private nurseries, so £2 per day for nearly 7 hours of childcare sounds reasonable to me.

It generally get simpler in Reception!

No, I’m a foreigner and I understand perfectly well how the UK system works because I’ve bothered to learn about it.

You can’t move to another country and moan it’s not set up for you.

I also can't believe someone would actually complain about paying £2 a day for someone to look after their child properly while they eat lunch.
People have to go on first aid courses to make sure that children aren't choking for example and notice allergies. They have to pay them to work. Pay them to clean up after etc. Not just let a bunch of kids let loose and eat unsupervised.

This whole post doesn't make sense and the OP doesn't answer any questions. I am not even sure if their child is eligible for FSM as they claim to work full time which doesn't correlate. Surely you would be just grateful for free education and childcare all day!

This is exactly why many nurseries will be closing, or limiting the funded hours to a certain amount of children.

To really simplify the process;

School only becomes compulsory for reception aged children, it’s is completely optional for your child to attend nursery. So you send them there at your own expense. There is a childcare element when they work out your universal credit claim, so you could add the £2 a day to your claim and see if you qualify for additional universal credit.

All children in reception, year 1 and year 2 are given free school meals, however some children, who’s parents are receiving certain benefits or help from the government are “eligible for free school meals”, for all of their school years (as long as there parents are receiving benefits etc), the majority of these children come from disadvantaged backgrounds, so the school can apply for extra funding from the government to help support those children. The money they get for each child is put in one pot and used to pay for additional teaching assistants, special learning materials to collectively help all disadvantaged children.

nursery = childcare, paid for by parents, but the government helps with providing free hours, universal credit claims and other schemes like tax free childcare
reception = compulsory school age, some children are from disadvantaged backgrounds, so qualify for things like free school meals and additional funding from the government that is paid to the school directly for them to spend on their education, as it is likely they need additional support with their learning.