Complained about Nursery issues - got a 1 month Notice to leave

[Amy04]

I have been sending my 2yo twins to a nursery since a month now. There have been several shortcomings such as:
No updates on the day about my children - what did they do, what did they eat, how are they, their mood, activities, etc. Out of 1 month of going to nursery, I only received updates for 2 days.
Leaving my child with a bottle of milk from the morning till pick up time without cleaning the bottle, adding fresh milk or even trying to help him eat - my son eats well at home and seems to only have milk at the nursery.
Failing to provide warm milk because they cannot leave a member of staff to warm the milk - though they did mention they could warm milk on Day 1.

• a few more issues.

I raised this matter with them. I requested for a meeting to discuss these matters because I said I am not comfortable and I am worried for their well-being if they go to the nursery without having the opportunity to meet the manager and higher up to discuss these matters and come to a solution.

I spoke with them yesterday about this and requested a meeting. They have now sent me a 1 month Notice telling me that their investigation is over and my allegations about no updates and well being are unfounded and they have decided to give a notice.
They also had the cheek to ask if I wanted to send my kids during that 1 month.

I do not want to send my kids somewhere where the people involved in their care are blatantly lying in my face and fobbing me off. I wonder how many more lies I have been told - especially where I notice a change in behaviour and eating pattern of my child.

I dont think it is fair to be charging me with that 1 month nursery fee where I do not plan to send my kids there.

It seems they kicked my kids out because they did not want to deal with the issues I raised.

Where do I go from here?

What would you have liked them to do?

Not, you just behave like that Mumsnetter instead from your keyboard.

OP, it sounds like the nursery talks a good game but just doesn’t deliver sadly - poor management, lack of resources, who knows what. I think the milk thing is a bit unreasonable at 2, but they certainly shouldn’t have left your child your a dirty cup. You absolutely should have been getting basic daily updates, that’s bog standard from any decent nursery. In terms of paying, they can whistle for it. I’d also raise the matter with the local authority if they’re part funded.

Didn't they change it so updates on app/photos weren't priority now?
We got photos in a bulk every few weeks.

Brief on pick ups.

They are correct that they can't leave the room leaving the ratios incorrect.

Regarding milk, he's 2, can't you give him it before going?

Do what they advised they would do at Registration on Day 1:
"Yes, we can provide warm milk. We will currently warm in the microwave and will later have a hob to do so."

Where do you think staff find the time for daily updates? If a member of staff has 5 key children how can they possibly photograph and send messages every day? Tbh I’d be worried if they were doing this as I want staff with my child not leaving them to send me and other parents photos every day. It’s not necessary. Also you sent them a lot of texts OP. Where will the staff find time to read them and reply? I think a handover brief chat at pick up is more than reasonable. I think your expectations are unreasonable and excessive.

Why are your children still having bottles of warm milk at age 2?

Don't you think the children are better served by staff who do hands-on care, rather than them spending ages updating parents and taking and uploading photos?

You're expecting too much, OP.

Who changed what?
Hmm, I might have not been clear, that milk was what I made for him in the morning at home before dropping him to nursery. So he still had the same milk in his bottle all day till pickup time in the afternoon, the milk I Made for him and gave him in the morning.
Every child is different, my son still prefers his milk and cheese in the morning and that is not an issue (we have been medically advised).

The same milk in his bottle all day?? 🤢

EYFS rules changed a year or two ago that updates in regards to children, so observations and photos and so on on the app or however you receive them aren't a priority anymore, so that nursery staff spend more time working with the children.

I think your getting a bashing here OP unfairly. I presume your paying a shit ton of money for two kids at nursery. I've never not had a update a pickup and a short note in daily book. X had a poo and two wet nappies, ate all his dinner of ... and half pudding of.... slept for a hour and played with ....

It's not onerous when the nursery is keeping records.

I do think that maybe there is a cultural shift where asking anything gets you labeled as THAT parent. We had a lot of issues with our child's EHCP not being followed by school and bizarrely the more we ignore school now ( after being engaged and proactive) the better reception we get from school. You just can't win really. But my kid is 9 so can tell me everything. After being told off by the senco for not waiting 20 months for a assessment like all the other parents (legally the deadline in the send code of practice is 16 weeks) I now wait a week to reply to her emails and only reply yes or no. I wouldn't be so inert with a tiny kid whoever much it releases the stress for a paid adult.

The staff are stressed and want you to be inert as it makes their life easier. Depends on if your paying fees to pay their rent or to meet your kids needs if you can be OK with that. Plenty of nurseries will do better, take your money there

Hmm, I might have not been clear, that milk was what I made for him in the morning at home before dropping him to nursery. So he still had the same milk in his bottle all day till pickup time in the afternoon, the milk I Made for him and gave him in the morning.
Every child is different, my son still prefers his milk and cheese in the morning and that is not an issue (we have been medically advised)

Sorry I'm confused, you made the milk but wanted them to heat it up? Or does he have that bottle you made and another one at nursery for his 0830 bottle?

Or do you mean he has afew bottles a day and they didn't do it?

Yabu

You seem to want 1:1 individually tailored care. So what you need is a nanny.

Given that you have twins a nanny won't be that much more expensive than 2x nursery places.

Nurseries cannot provide the level of individual customisation that you want. Each staff member is caring for 4 children. They are not going to wash out your child's bottle for you, or warm up milk (why are you dropping off a child that is hungry?) or any of the other special requests. The updates you can expect are the verbal info given each day at pickup time, and a termly browse through their learning outcomes folders. That's not what you want so it's best to terminate the arrangement.

It's perfectly reasonable for them to charge fees during the notice period as they cannot fill the spaces immediately.

Presumably you have a handover at the end of the day and you have a conversation re nap times at drop off? Why do you need constant updates during the time they're there?
I wouldn't be impressed with leaving them with a manky bottle of milk all day but then again, I wouldn't be sending my child to nursery with a bottle of milk in the first place. It isn't necessary and like they said, they don't have the staff to swan off and warm bottles of milk up for children that don't need a bottle of milk.
Why aren't you asking questions re what they've eaten etc at pick up time? Just a quick, 'Did they eat ok?'
If it's a private nursery then they clearly see you as 'that parent' and they can serve you a month's notice.

I wouldn't be sending my child to nursery with a bottle of milk in the first place

Why not? They said they could warm it.

The adult to child ratio in toddlers for children from age 2-3 is 1:5. A member of the team cannot just leave the room to warm up milk because that would mean the room is out of ratio and potentially unsafe for the children including your own child.

A venal hand over of your child's day should happen when you arrive to pick them up. However, if you are arriving a few minutes before the nursery closes then expect to be v brief.

updates regarding the learning and development requirements of The EYFS and how your child is progressing do not need to be given daily.

it is much better for the staff to be interacting, playing with and supporting the children, rather than doing app updates and paper work. Staff can promote learning in the moment it does not always need to be documented or put on an app.

The reality is that room based staff do not have the time to sit on apps updating parents when do you think they would find the time to do that? It is not safe or professional to be updating an app when you are working directly with the children.

A typical scenario in 2-3's 3 staff with 15 children. One needs to change their key child's nappy they go and do that and another member of staff comes into cover until they are back . One member of staff is in the garden with 5 toddlers, the other member of staff is engaging in sensory play to support communication, fine motor skills etc. The staff need to concentrate fully on the children for their safety and wellbeing.

in my experience barring any SEN, it is unusual for an over 2's room to encourage bottles of milk and offering to warm it up - a milk kitchen is usually incorporated in or next to the baby room.

The key person , every child must have a named person and rightly so, but that does not mean their key person will be at nursery all the times your child is. This due to shift patterns, holidays, illness etc.

What did you want the nursery to do with regards to not warming milk?

you may find another nursery, but it may be a similar scenario- because the ratios and and EYFS are the same in an 0-5 setting .

Contact Ofsted and your LA.

If they've lied it can easily be proven.

But they were unable to do so due to ratios as a member of staff would have had to go and do this.
They shouldn't have told you they could do it though, they are probably only set up for this in the baby room.

Yes to this.

It does sound like there's been some poor communication and they haven't managed your expectations, but now the relationship has broken down so best to move on.

@bugaboo218 Excellent post, I hope the OP reads it carefully. You clearly work or worked in nurseries? I worked in a preschool and what you are describing is spot on. I recognise the bit where one member of staff comes in to cover the staff member doing a nappy change, it was like a weird kind of dance to ensure ratios were kept - our boss was very strict about this and rightly so. So add into that mix leaving to warm bottles, it's only a few minutes but it's disruptive.

Daily written updates / photos - no chance. A quick update at the door yes

Why does he need warm milk, and did the nursery tell you he was crying for it for an hour and a half?

It's hard to get across just how busy it is in an early years setting, completely different to being at home with a couple of young children. Imagine supervising 5 toddlers by yourself!

I was wondering that.
Was he really crying for milk for that length of time, or did you just surmise this?

And can't you give him his milk before you drop him off? What time do the children have breakfast? I'm struggling to see why they'd need milk so soon afterwards, especially as milk isn't really required at that age.

You sound like the awkward high maintenance parent with unrealistic expectations. Nursery workers are too busy looking after children to be taking photos and sending them to you. Handover time is when you should be asking questions about how been, what they’ve eaten etc.

I agree with @bugaboo218 's post.

I have to say, I requested more updates from my DS's nursery because there were days with none and I found that unsettling so I sympathise to some extent, OP. My friends have children in nurseries who do provide updates on everything - but you have to wonder is it at the expense of actually looking after the children if they have so many updates to make per child? Swings and roundabouts tbh. There is a happy medium there, it doesn't sound like your nursery offered it. I wouldn't be happy with no updates at all, ultimately you pay for this service too as part of their offering.

I don't quite understand the milk situation - surely if your LO had the same milk in his bottle all day it was gone off? That's unacceptable if so, for sure. This sort of things should be reported to Ofsted.

But then YABU expecting them to warm up milk for 2yo toddlers, really? They can't just walk out of the room to do that at any point. Your children should be offered milk in room temp in beakers in the morning or with snacks, not warmed up on demand.