Nursery asking us to come and change nappy

[fari2014]

Hi,

My son has place in nursery connected to school. The nursery saying they don't have nappy changing facilities and if child soils themselves or nappy needs changing. They will call parents to come and do it.

Is this normal? Do all nurseries connected to school do this?

This isn’t what my Health Visitor said. My local authority insist on an NHS diagnosis or use any excuse to bounce the application.

i know of people this has happened to as well

Both school nurseries my DS attended were fine changing nappies. Children could attend from 2 and a half. There were a number of children still in nappies including my DS.

My DS did not come out of nappies until he was almost 4. He is autistic but we were not aware of this at the time and he had not had a diagnosis.

A LOT of children are still not diagnosed at this point so it does discriminate against disabled children and make life harder for their parents. Although as PP pointed out there is not a lot they can do if there are not facilities and I guess a lot of it comes down to funding (or lackof)

Not a great situation though

Disability support is not part of a standard teaching job, regardless of what the child’s specific needs are. Normally a separate professional would be hired to provide specialist care, including intimate care or individual supervision or special educational support as required.

Schools can’t reject pupils because they aren’t toilet trained. That’s disability discrimination. However the teachers can refuse to change nappies if it isn’t part of their job description. In which case the school would have to apply for funding to pay for a specialist staff member to handle intimate care needs for the disabled child.

Children all used to be potty trained by 2 BECAUSE they had to be to go to nursery. The alternative was to keep them at home. It 's lazy and neglectful to keep them in nappies rather than spend a couple of days on potty training.

The OP’s child is non-verbal at age 3 and awaiting a diagnosis of autism.

I know this happened to friends but not at our school thankfully. DS wasn't trained by Reception so the agreement was nappy pants and he did most of it himself but certainly in nursery (so 2-4) they were changed properly

My kids pee for England. Imagine being called in every hour to change a nappy and the logistical nightmare of them calling me, letting me through, signing me out just to rinse and repeat.

Except they weren't ALL because the kids who had learning difficulties or physical difficulties would have just been kept our the way or left to wet themselves. DS wasn't dry at this age, and given the reason why, he wouldn't have been dry if he'd had better parents either.

OP, I am happy for you to PM me if you want as my son's needs sound similar to yours. He attended school nursery last year and will start Reception this year. He had funding in place from the beginning of the school nursery year which was assessed and awarded by the Early Years Support and Assessment Team at the local authority. This put in place funding for a 1:1 while his EHCP application went through, which we now have. It is not necessary to have a specific diagnosis to get an EHCP - my son does not.

The school should have an intimate care policy and the SENDCO should be happy to discuss your son's needs with you. If they are not I would seriously reconsider whether it is the right setting for him.

And do you think this approach miraculously cured disabilities, or do you think perhaps disabled children were just disbanded from educational settings? We don't do that any more, at least not legally.

debarred not debanded

It's illegal for them to refuse to change your son

I helped paint a nursery a while back and it had rooms for changing.

But I don't have kids and from what you all say they have different rules for different ages. I don't know what ages they had there.

@fari2014 I hope it gets sorted out somehow ASAP. Please keep us informed.

Are you actually joking??

You obv have no experience of a child with SEN

He's autistic. He hasn't the awareness to use the potty. He's just as entitled to be there as any other child.

He doesn't need to be in nursery for this. If he is likely to be specialist setting appropriate than just sending him into a mainstream nursery setting without any plans or additional support is going to be pretty awful for him and the setting. Better to find a more appropriate setting for him whilst you apply for the EHCP, which is based on need not diagnosis. Why are you only bringing these issues up with the school now?

Hi. My son is almost 7 but started pre-school and then transferred to school nursery at 3. He is still doubly incontinent and showing no interest in toilet training but I’m told by the incontinence team this is common in children with SN’s and autistic children. He was diagnosed just after his 5th birthday.

Have you had any contact with the inclusion team at your local social care/LEA office? My son had inclusion funding at pre-school and this transferred to the school nursery and this is where his Early years health care plan was finalised. Then from that they compiled his EHCP for when he started in reception. The inclusion funding is used for exactly this situation so that it allows someone to take time out to support your child with their personal care and educational needs. The local council also have a grant available if you claim DLA for your child, to help with educational and sensory equipment for the setting. My son has always been changed standing up and for this reason they prefer nappies as pants require taking shoes and bottoms etc off. My son uses the NHS provided ones and this was set up just before he turned 5, but this is different in every area.

My son now attends an ASD provision within a different mainstream school with up to 8 other children that are autistic and some other needs with EHCP.

The bottom line is, they can not refuse to change him as above its disability discrimination. It’s a them problem not a you problem.

I’m just chuckling to myself because when we spoke initially with his nursery teacher she said there was no issue with the toiletting needs but they would be looking to get him toilet trained ASAP…😂🤣😂 I’m not changing him for the laughs tbh 😬🫣 I can’t wait for the day that he feels he can use a toilet and ditch the nappies.

What a stupid post. There is no reason that an unstatemented child joining a nursery should be awful for anyone. It happens all the time. The nursery should be equipped to cope, to assess his support needs (something that's hard to do for a classroom setting outside of the classroom) and help apply for an EhCP.

This isn't 1970. Children with disabilities are part of mainstream society now.

We started the journey 2 years ago and even SALT which could be done at this age isnt being done, we have been on the wait list for over 2 years, they keep blaiming COVID.

We had to pay out of pocket to attend private sign language lessons (not that they worked, he instead developed his own signs that no one other than us understand).

When we got refered to CAHMS and they wrote back refusing the referal saying its a 'health visitor issue'. My DS hasnt even had a health visitor since before COVID, I had to get him refered through the midwife who dealth with my last pregnancy.

Its all a shamles right now.

If OP applies for an EHCNA assessments such as SALT, OT and MH assessments can be undertaken as part of the EHCNA without the need to sit on the normal waiting lists.

And, if the LA agree to issue an EHCP, therapies can be part of the provision in said EHCP, again without the need to sit on the normal waiting lists and often more frequently/for a longer period of time than otherwise typically available.

But they may well take them. Many of us have had additional training and are full Sencos. I'm portage trained, pecs, Attention Autism, signing etc. And have raised EHCPs and referrals.

Where I live, it is certainly not a prerequisite for nursery children to be toilet trained. My daughter goes to a private school nursery and the staff told me they have some children up to 4 not trained and no SEN. Whilst I think 4 is very late to still be in nappies, they most certainly do not expect parents to come in and change them. How disruptive for all the children!

Wow. Bigots alert on this thread!

This thread was deleted as apparently it was reported for trolling by someone. I complained and had it reinstated.

Thanks everyone for your messages, opinions and support. I will speak to the nursery next week when my son does his first day and take it from there. Will report back what happens.

My comment was based on the fact that his own parent has indicated that his needs are of a level where he is likely to need to be in a specialist provision from YR. in light of that there is merit in asking whether it is going to be beneficial to him to attend a nursery that will be unlikely to be able to meet his needs as the OP seems to be wanting to send him as she believes that it is necessary in order to apply for an EHCP. Many many children are assessed for EHCPs pre school and this allows them to have the right provision from the start rather than having a 6months to a year in the wrong type of provision often, but not always leading to a level of distress for the child.

Worked in nurseries in 10 years and never heard this, definitely not standard. Seems a bit ridiculous tbh!