Nursery asked us to remove our 2 year old - need success stories

[LazJaz]

This is long, thank you in advance for reading.

Our DS 26months has been in nursery since 11.5months
Towards the end of his time in the baby room, he began to exhibit difficulties in controlling his emotions and was biting other children.
He was moved to the toddler room about 6 weeks ago. Seemed to do really well at first and biting behavior stopped, however over the past few weeks the behavior has come back, and ramped up to the extent that nursery had a shadow on him, suggested he may have ADHD, requested a referral for an assessment (which was rejected by the local authority because they need referrals from SALT at the moment) and finally despite some improvements (better communication, naming feelings, several days with no biting attempts,) they now feel that they can no longer sustain the level of support he needs and they have suggested it’s not the right setting for him. They have given us one month’s notice and have been very supportive throughout his time at nursery.

They believe that the behavior is possibly the result of sensory processing disorder as he is not biting in anger but now biting seemingly unprovoked by other children and is uninterested in the response of the bitten child or surrounding adults. They are puzzled as he’s a bright child with excellent speech for his age, and they don’t feel that the biting behavior fits with the rest of his presentation.

They expressed this as a “with regret” decision, they say he’s charming, smart, and much loved but that the current situation is unsustainable for all parties.

I agree with and support their decision. They need to keep other children safe, and perhaps the biting is a sign of DS having needs they can’t meet.

But it’s devastating. He seems to enjoy his time at nursery (he talks about it at home positively and runs in on drop off). I’m also terrified for him - what will a change in setting do to his confidence? (we’re considering a range of options but nanny would probably be a stretch too far) ,what if we get it wrong again?

And I’m also scared and sad and angry for me. Even though I know this is inappropriate.

we’ve started aggressively pursuing appointments with SALT, gp, sensory specialists etc, anyone who will listen. We’re exploring new childcare options.

I’m looking for advice/guidance/wisdom/success stories - has this happened to anyone else? Did you go on to better things? What till did it take on your child? Were they able to go on to another setting with more success and without being labeled? If relevant, What toll did it take on your career? I’m the primary earner and so giving up work to focus on him isn’t a possibility for us without significant life changes (selling house, moving to new part of country etc). DH is brilliant but also at this point not interested in stopping work to become and SAAD.

thank you for reading and anything you may be able to share.

@Tillsforthrills ❤️Thank you

I am interested to know how people assessed childminders and found those they thought were good fits for their family? I have no experience here.

OP not sure what UK country you are in but childminders in England can only have 3 under 5s and only one of them can be under a year.

For nursery the ratio is bigger.

Anyway the main criteria I used is the same for a nursery. Experience and seeming to like children. However it helps that I have family and friends who work with children including under 5s and enjoy doing it. So was looking for provider(s) who display the same attitude.

It also helps that I live next to a private nursery and a school nursery and have done so for a decade before I had my DD. I've also seen them, other nurseries and CMs taking their charges out and about in the local area. I would never advise any parent to use that private nursery as the workers clearly don't enjoy their jobs and can't be bothered to engage with their charges. There as with all the other nurseries and CMs - at least in public - they engage happily with their charges.

My DD now goes to both a CM and a nursery. The CM has looked after her PT from 10 months. The rest of the days since she was 3 she spends in nursery, which is near her dad's work.

We’ve always preferred CM’s to nurseries. Smaller setting and focused attention. If it’s a sole childminder there’s never been any cause for concern as the children thrive and have warm relationships. In nurseries, there’s been many instances that. the workers tend to ‘protect’ each other when it comes to whistleblowing and turn a blind eye anyway.

It may be as simple as the open plan layout with (I assume) a high ceiling and sound reverberating all over the place being too much for him. 2 year olds tend to prefer quieter spaces in my experience. Open plan nurseries are over stimulating for a lot of kids, and in the course of a full day, they all need access to a quiet area for a bit of rest. Often that just isn’t available in an open plan setup.

It doesn’t sound like he has additional needs, honestly, though something is triggering the biting. Children this age with social communication delays/disorders don’t tend to have good speech and language skills. I would try him in a quieter environment and see if it helps.

@LazJaz I happened to know my childminder a bit before I had DD2 as she lives very close to me and I had chatted to her at a local playgroup. I only managed to visit her once before going with her as was during 2020. Initially I had planned to do a mix of CM and nursery but in the end decided would be easier for DD2 to just get used to one setting. The other nice thing is that she takes DD1 after school a few days a week and also during school holidays so they are together some of the time.

Where I live most people seem to find CM through our local facebook group. I did also ask around a little bit about her as knew friends of friends would have used her. I had similar reservations to you about CM but honestly have been much much happier with her than the nursery DD1 went to. She really knows DD2 and understands what makes her tick. DD2 has a real relationship with her, when something happens she often talks about telling the CM. I would look for someone with a lot of experience and just someone you feel comfortable with.

Btw I don't think the biting is your parenting (bloody hope my DD2 biting isn't because of my parenting!). Lots of kids go through this kind of phase. DD1 went through a scratching phase (thankfully it was short lived).

We had a similar thing happen to us and we moved him to a school nursery and what a difference. He was like a different child.

Far better quality of staff, more understanding and better kid to staff ratios.

It’s worth trying a different nursery first. Be honest about the behaviours so they can let you know if they can manage. If they have an experienced staff base they should be willing to try to work with him. We’ve had bright children who have no other issues go through quite an intensive biting phase at 2yo. It is difficult needing to have a member of staff shadow and parents of the children being bitten may have been making complaints which is why your current nursery may have felt they could no longer care for him.

Hi everyone,

I wanted to come and thank contributors to this thread again and also to share an update. (Long, apologies)

On the recommendation of a family friend we took him for some occupational therapy sessions at an early years autism specialist centre. The OT provided us with some really useful strategies to help us manage the sensitivities she saw to noise and a mismatch between the speed of his thoughts and his little body’s ability to do these things - in effect she helped us stretch his tolerance for challenging tasks or tasks not directly related to his special interest area.

we also improved his sleep using the Batelle method. This is a very holistic method, non CIO, and as part of the fees you have access to an early years behavioural specialist. She was fantastic and occasionally still provides support now months after the programme wrapped. This specialist advised that we continue (and improve!) with the gentle boundaries partnering methods (Dr Siggie, Big Little Feelings etc) and that we now do all possible to break the biting habit- prevent him from biting, name the feeling, provide an alternative. Do not react with a big “no biting” instead only “teeth are for smiling” etc if we couldn’t ignore it.

while we searched for a new childcare setting, nursery suggested a 1-on-1 shadow and reduced hours. The thinking was minimise disruption and see if we can “train him out” of the biting habit in the meantime.

this was expensive, but we decided to go with it knowing it was temporary. We met with nursery for regular reviews.

I did ultimately find a childminder I quite liked, and a nursery I would be happy with, But we agreed that we would keep the 1on1 in place until December. This would be the final decision deadline for all parties - aiming for one smooth transition to a new setting over the Xmas holiday if needed.

I’m absolutely delighted to say that not only did our son stop biting not long after the OT sessions finished, but he is now doing a brilliant job of sharing and taking turns, and has made good friends in the room. The nursery room staff in particular were passionate that this was the right setting for him and that he is thriving there, and we have all agreed that he is now ready to continue without additional support.

I really wanted to thank everyone who gave such useful advice here. I couldn’t stand up and advocate for him in the beginning because I was so overwhelmed with my own feelings of shame about his behaviour. I couldn’t see any failings in the nursery side. I couldn’t understand that he probably would grow out of his frustration and find better ways to express himself. All in all, I couldn’t see a way forward and was rather ineffectual! Comments here helped me turn that around, and helped me start to see how I could take action and make plans. Thank you!!

He’s biting kids for seemingly no reason or in anger, am I right in thinking that’s literally the only issue? It’s absurd anyone would want to diagnose something based on that alone. It could be down to any number of things - he likes the way it feels, he gets a compulsion to do it, he secretly enjoys the attention, there’s something the other kids do that may not be obvious but really annoys him and he can’t articulate it etc.

I would be tempted to ditch all the referral stuff, and just spend as much one on one time with him as possible. Like a reset button. Just do nice things together, read books, talk a lot. Then maybe start off slowly with a childminder and just one or two other kids so she can closely monitor him. Good luck.

Sorry didn’t realise this was an old thread.

What a great update OP. So good to hear a positive outcome. Best of luck for the future.

What a lovely update OP, so pleased 😊

I just wanted to say one of my children went through a terrible biting phase and nursery said some awful things. He moved nursery’s (and is now mid primary), neurotypical, loved by loads, surrounded by friends, the one who always wins awards and is chosen for lines in school play - no issues at all. I also have an autistic child who had all kinds of struggles but was mostly pretty compliant toddler.

All of which is to say that 2 years old is very young. Absolutely get whatever help you can, but don’t panic.

Sorry! I missed your update. Great news.

As a nursery worker, the workers in your nursery shouldn't be attempting to diagnose or suggesting what he has at all. They can suggest additional needs and provide support but they cannot and should not say "he has adhd". Even "he might have adhd."

I work with a child who is absolutely autistic, the SENCo believes he is, his parents know he is, but I am not allowed to say yes he is despite it being very much a known fact between us all.

I've not read the whole thread yet and appreciate its 6 months old but what is your son's speech like?

Just read the update - brilliant news!

What a wonderful update - I am so pleased for you, OP