Nursery asked us to remove our 2 year old - need success stories

[LazJaz]

This is long, thank you in advance for reading.

Our DS 26months has been in nursery since 11.5months
Towards the end of his time in the baby room, he began to exhibit difficulties in controlling his emotions and was biting other children.
He was moved to the toddler room about 6 weeks ago. Seemed to do really well at first and biting behavior stopped, however over the past few weeks the behavior has come back, and ramped up to the extent that nursery had a shadow on him, suggested he may have ADHD, requested a referral for an assessment (which was rejected by the local authority because they need referrals from SALT at the moment) and finally despite some improvements (better communication, naming feelings, several days with no biting attempts,) they now feel that they can no longer sustain the level of support he needs and they have suggested it’s not the right setting for him. They have given us one month’s notice and have been very supportive throughout his time at nursery.

They believe that the behavior is possibly the result of sensory processing disorder as he is not biting in anger but now biting seemingly unprovoked by other children and is uninterested in the response of the bitten child or surrounding adults. They are puzzled as he’s a bright child with excellent speech for his age, and they don’t feel that the biting behavior fits with the rest of his presentation.

They expressed this as a “with regret” decision, they say he’s charming, smart, and much loved but that the current situation is unsustainable for all parties.

I agree with and support their decision. They need to keep other children safe, and perhaps the biting is a sign of DS having needs they can’t meet.

But it’s devastating. He seems to enjoy his time at nursery (he talks about it at home positively and runs in on drop off). I’m also terrified for him - what will a change in setting do to his confidence? (we’re considering a range of options but nanny would probably be a stretch too far) ,what if we get it wrong again?

And I’m also scared and sad and angry for me. Even though I know this is inappropriate.

we’ve started aggressively pursuing appointments with SALT, gp, sensory specialists etc, anyone who will listen. We’re exploring new childcare options.

I’m looking for advice/guidance/wisdom/success stories - has this happened to anyone else? Did you go on to better things? What till did it take on your child? Were they able to go on to another setting with more success and without being labeled? If relevant, What toll did it take on your career? I’m the primary earner and so giving up work to focus on him isn’t a possibility for us without significant life changes (selling house, moving to new part of country etc). DH is brilliant but also at this point not interested in stopping work to become and SAAD.

thank you for reading and anything you may be able to share.

@Kanaloa thanks for your responses.

I had thought childminders had a ratio of 8:1? but I’ll start looking at it in earnest. Might also be a great opportunity to build a long term childcare arrangement that can run through primary school holidays and after school.

I also appreciate your view that he might not be that far outside the norm. He’s what you would describe as intense for sure, and he has a couple of other possible signs (walks in the balls of his feet, does a bit of stimming) but my parents share the view that he’s in the normal range - and say he’s just like me at the same age. But your view that a suggested diagnosis might not be the most appropriate step has helped me see that actually this may be the nursery’s way to say they don’t think they suit each other, and maybe that’s ok. It’s sad, but perhaps there are better settings out there for him.
thank you!

@Sixlittlenightmares
thank you for this answer!
my younger brother was diagnosed with ASD (asbergers as we used to call it) around the age of 4, so it’s a possibility, and I’m learning that presentations can vary more widely than I’d previously realized.
what did you look for when looking for a CM?

@FourTeaFallOut economic model is definitely part of it. They can’t afford to give him a shadow/1-on-1 on a permanent basis without an ECHP (fair enough) but have offered to continue for the next month while we figure out the next step for our DS (which I think is really kind).

For age 2 the ratio would be more like 3:1. 8:1 is for 4 year olds I think?

I'd defo look into a childminder who has experience of ND kids.

@starsparkle08 thank you for your reply. What did you do to fight for the 1:1 support?

I’m interested to know what the process is and at what age you began the journey.

@ZigZagZen thank you!

I've not rtft so apologies but had to come on and say I had a biter and a pusher ! DD also bit not out of anger at all, it was odd. This was in school nursery (I was sahm during this time and at age 2-3 took her out of most other settings due to this). The biting actually stopped when I gave her a meal at lunch ! It was all I could think of! Nursery was in the afternoon.

Roll on ten years and she's doing so well at school , has been perfectly behaved since about year 1 I think.

She had some sensory issues with clothes but all resolved now she is older . I don't think it always points to a diagnosis, some children are just quite sensitive .

@LazJaz I had portage early help involved at that point who helped and I argued with the council that support should be anticipated rather than reacted too. If your son does have autism ( my son was diagnosed at 2 years 3 months ) they are actually discriminating against him

@DayOfTheTripods
thank you thank you thank you!
this is so similar to our DS. We think noise might be a trigger. It’s one of the reasons the nursery suggest we change setting because they are open plan and apparently he’s started complaining to the teachers about the noise. They think he may bite when he’s overwhelmed by loud noises too. And he talks about a noisy incident that happened on a field trip a couple of months ago on an almost daily basis.

Your story and will be something to discuss at the SALT appointment next week and helps me start to stitch a few different things together.
indeed, I struggle with my hearing too, as does my mother. You may be on to something!

I hope your son has been able to get appropriate support following his diagnosis?

With asd in the family and indicators (toe walking, stinking and nursery noticing development isn't within norm) it's much more likely he does have some ND differences.

However I always remind parents a diagnosis isn't a prognosis. It's a way to know how to support.

My autistic ds is 17 now and has just finished college - will return for a foundation degree next term and has been offered a job with a start up company after a placement with them developing new computer ware that's being sold internationally.

6 years ago he couldn't even manage attending school. So I found a better placement and the test is history as they say

DD also bit not out of anger at all, it was odd.

I always think of it as like when you see a kitten and have an overwhelming urge to squeeze its head. It isn’t anger or malice, just like an overflowing of feeling. Plus a bit of the fact that kids will put anything in their mouths. I once saw a little boy eat a worm. And he didn’t even look grossed out as he chewed, just like ‘hmm nice.’

Why are you pursuing SALT if his speech is great for his age? Sounds like OT would be more appropriate

If he's noise sensitive have you tried ear defenders? My ds was really bad for noise until he was about 14!!!!

@stillherenow thank you for sharing your experience. You are right that we mustn’t be too quick to diagnose.
becoming an SAHM would be my last choice because I am the primary earner and we would need to sell the house and move to a more affordable part of the country etc. But it’s an option that is available and that wouldn’t be terrible if it came to it.

@itsgettingweird like the headphone looking ones? We have a pair but haven’t used much yet - only at concerts. perhaps we will try them more often

@123derbyshire we have been advised by the HVs that it’s the only way to get an appointment with paediatric psychologist or similar. Apparently they are the gate keepers in our area. I also found it weird.
But now I’m wondering if they may also have something to say about the noise sensitivity.

Yes those.
It may be worthwhile saying to him when the noise is too much to put them on. He sounds very able to know what's bothering him and request it.

@itsgettingweird thank you! Such an important message and totally agree that diagnosis is not prognosis. My younger brother mentioned upthread is married to a great woman, lives abroad, had a career he loves and is great at, plenty of friends etc.
He was lucky enough to have good interventions at a young age.
I know it doesn’t work out like this for all children with ASD diagnoses, and we’ve always felt fortunate as a family that appropriate support was available early on because of his diagnosis and the area in which we lived. So whilst I feel sad that the nursery we chose for him have decided he’s not going to be able to stay with them, I’m now able to see that it’s a kick we needed to see if there may be anything else that he needs support with and to get that for him if it’s appropriate.
thank you and congratulations to your DS!

Oh right ok I'm a private SALT so don't know the ins and outs of how to get things in the NHS. I wouldn't have anything to do with noise sensitivity apart from noticing it and it helping in my decision regarding a diagnosis and possibly suggesting ear defenders but sensory issues are more what OTs are experts in

@Savemysoul21 …. Um lol?

@123derbyshire thank you this is helpful! We’re also looking at a private pathway so will look at seeking out OT!

I can’t believe that a nursery has tried to diagnose a child and said that they think it’s this or that, they’re not qualified to do that and I’m pretty sure (not 100%) that they aren’t meant to suggest this?

I have a son that’s 17 now and when he was that age he was the same, he didn’t speak at all though, only baby language up till starting school, then he was totally normal, speech and behaviour.
He has has no issues all through school, he works and going to college now.
The point of telling you this is, 2 is far too young for these concerns, it’s sounds like they’ve had enough of dealing with him and is using excuses to get him moved.

Probably they’ve had parents complaining and he is hard work so they just are picking the easy option, I would get some help with how to deal and talk to the nursery and go from there.

Is there any Playgroup type childcare near you? I always feel like they’re much better, the one my son is in now is amazing and they deal with all situations so well.

@LazJaz SALT don't just look at language but they also look at social communication and interaction, attention and listening, early play and joint attention, so it sounds appropriate in this case.

@LazJaz

My son has had okay support, his primary aren’t renowned for their support of SEN and don’t actually consider him to have them, but because the hearing aid and other measures such as where he sits had such a noticeable effect on his behaviour, individual teachers have realised that it makes their lives easier to make sure that he’s wearing it and the measures are followed. We have a really good audiology department locally though, and he’s doing great academically and socially, so if your son did get a similar diagnosis, it shouldn’t impact his life too much.