Serious Accident at nursery

[Moma1821]

Hi everyone,

Just looking for some support really.
My daughter was attacked at nursery on Tuesday by another child (as were several others) the child ran at her with an empty cable reel toy on purpose and has cut her head open badly. It had to be glued
This child had only that day been reintroduced back into the group of eight teacher child ratio due to ongoing issues where they lashed out and staff and couldn't cope with nursery life.
The footage was so distressing. I will never forget.
Im really distraught it took a lot for me to trust anyone to look after my child and she had been doing so well there. Now I just feel angry and upset and unsure what to do. I've had a meeting with the nursery and the child is excluded they have apologised profusely and given me all the assurances and explanations they can. But I just feel what the hell are you doing putting a child who is violent in a group of 8 with one nursery nurse who was fairly new. The child basically went on a rampage and my child came off the worst by far and away.
She had never been to hospital before and really had no bumps and scrapes in her 3 and half years. Now she will have a scar ok in her hair but I just feel why should she have to have this because the nursery was trying to do the nice thing with this other child.
Luckily my child seems ok in herself and tells me she is not in pain. She is due to go to school September. I really don't want to send her back to nursery but I am worried that relationships with other children who will go to her school will be lost and learning too if i don't send her back (im on maternity) and I won't get her in at another nursery now and if I did it would be too disruptive before school in September.
Im just so furious. Where ever I look online no one else seems to mention an accident at nursery as serious as this inflicted by another child just bumps and scrapes. I don't feel like I can chat with people easily about this as my daughter is always with me.
Am I overreacting, is this par for the course, should I let it go for the sake of 11 weeks?
I haven't slept well since it happened and I've really worried about it.
My baby was due to go to that nursery in September too but I feel I have lost all trust in them. I have already started to enquire at another nursery.
The last few days I've done some lovely things with my daughter as I think she deserves it after what she has been through and I keep upbeat around her but it has all felt like a nightmare and made me feel really down.

"It seems that schools generally have inclusive policies and that is good - you don't want hundreds of children excluded, especially children who are violent because people have been violent to them. Yet at the same time the schools don't seem to be able to punish/control/prevent the bad behaviour."

The problem is that many (not all) of these children act this way because they are having a sensory overload. Punishments don't work and potentially make things worse. The only thing that will work is understanding when the child is starting to become agitated/overloaded and remove them from the situation or keep them in a calm/low demand environment at all times. Modern schools are a sensory disaster which is why many kids struggle so much.

Also just to add, whilst I completely understand your upset OP, I know of many, many parents whose kids have had similar accidents at nursery, Two whose kids have fallen and broken their arms, a fall down stone steps, biting, almost everyone I know has had their child bump their head resulting in either a cut or egg bruise. I think you have to prepare yourself that these things happen unfortunately.

This! Many years ago my DD was bitten on the face by another child at nursery which has left 3 scars. I will never forget going to collect her and seeing the state of her little face which was all bruised and had numerous parts of broken skin. It still infuriates me to this day.

The nursery failed your child and if they knew that this child had behavioural issues they should have been keeping every single child in that nursery safe.

I removed my DD from the nursery in question immediately as I felt I couldn’t trust them to keep her safe. She happily settled at a better run nursery the month after and made many friends. Trust your gut instinct and also report the incident to any appropriate authorities in your area.

Personally, I don’t think that you’re over reacting OP, not many children require hospital attention by being attacked by others at nursery.

I'm sorry what part of this post led you to believe the nursery had lessons to learn from inadequate ratios? From age 3 the ratios are 8 to 1 which was exactly what the OP said.

My son also had sand thrown at him. He had to have his eye lids rolled to wash his eyes out. It was very traumatic. The nursery did not apologise yet knew who did it - it was the managers’ child. Not all kids are nice.

I can see how this would be upsetting but I would still send her back, maybe a few days off if that's what she wants - I think not doing so may be a bit of an unhealthy way to deal with it for her.

You are understandably very upset but she seems to be coping OK and to change her care setting where she's happy with it because of this might send the message 'This was way worse than you thought, and we must keep you away from anything to do with it'. No lasting harm has actually been done and I can't see it's worth causing so much disruption as a result. I do understand why it might not feel that way now, but in the longer term it's a healthier precedent to set for her.

I hope you both feel better soon 👐

Can you keep her with you until she starts school but arrange play dates for her friends there and people she will be going to school with?

Your DD wants to go back. She wants to play with her best friend, and I imagine that she wants her 'normal' back. That's really good, and by letting her do so, she'll have recognised her resilience and she'll gain the confidence to deal with the things that life will throw at her in the future.

I totally understand your distress and anger, but your DD is the important one here. She's bounced back and she needs the status quo back. The boy is no longer there, so let her have those last few months with her friends and her teachers.

YOU'LL have recognised her resilience. Don't know what happened there

I hope your little one makes a good recovery.

This kind of thing is why increasing ratios is such a bad idea. It is already difficult to support children in a 1:8 ratio if there are children with SEN or behaviour issues. The funding for one to one care has to be applied for and there is a lot of paperwork and hoops to jump through. Most nurseries can't afford 1:1 for children from their own income. At the moment - maybe pandemic related - there are a lot of behavioural issues in early years children in higher numbers than in past years.

I'd keep your child at the nursery now the child who caused the injury has been excluded but do talk to the manager there for reassurance and clarity in how your child will be cared for and supported from this.

I wouldn't be keen on sending not send my child back there. It just isn't worth the risk. You need to ensure your child is in a safe environment. In fact I would seriously consider changing nurseries no matter what as they didn't seem to handle the situation at all well.

@Moma1821
I'm appalled that such a violent child is allowed ''Free rein'' in a Nursery class.
Especially if you are paying!
What are the nursery thinking of, taking on violent children, which they can't possibly supervise, {If they could, your child wouldn't have been attacked.

If a child is so SEN that they are violent, and a danger to others, they need a secure placement where they can be closely supervised, 1:1

It isn't the case that your DC will mix with other 'Rough' children, most parents would do anything to protect their child from such an unsettling experience.

Why should one violent child hold sway over the rest of the group?
I'd look at moving nurseries.

It seems as though this child only lashed out at staff in the past. And that is very normal for children with problems. In a long career with children with emotional disregulation in a specialist school, my experience is that attacks on children by children were and are rare. On the other hand the adults were on the receiving end of some pretty nasty injuries.

So I'm just saying that the nursery might have had no reason to expect that he would attack another child. And now that he has, he's been excluded.
I agree that there should have been extra staffing, since they'd had reason to suspend him earlier. But as he's no longer there, I wouldn't, simply from this event, assume that the nursery is unsafe.

Again, this should be seen from DD's perspective. She's got over this injury, she wants to go back. Saying "no, you're not safe there" undermines her resilience and deprives her of her normal social life. OP would basically be 'punishing' her, not punishing the nursery.

i would change nursery. i wouldnt trust them again.

@oakleaffy moving to where ?
All Nurseries have children they are working to support. Many of those will have an SEN - some recognised and other not. Some will have had trauma. Some will have been neglected. Some will have been physically abused. Some will have witnessed domestic (and indeed non-domestic) abuse.
Nurseries do not have money to employ staff to work as 1:1 support.
Where do you think these "secure placement" s are ?

Is it a permanent exclusion OP?
I think I'd be wanting a full explanation as per @Foolsrule post, before deciding what to do next.

How can a nursery afford 1:1 unless they charge that child more? The child is excluded now which is good. The only way forward is to not take on children like this but that really doesn't sit well with many on Mumsnet.

Getting 1:1 for a child is a long, difficult process. There will continue to be these kind of incidents until the funding for inclusion matches up with the practice. There are children with trauma and attachment needs as well as children with send who need 1:1 and who need specialist placements who can't get what they need. It is simply not possible for schools to refuse to have children based on the premise that they may be violent. Any such decision would be challenged by parents or local authorities or Often.

I’m not sure why they showed you footage of the incident, I imagine that has made it worse. Kids in nursery do hit and bite and unfortunately on this occasion it’s caught her such that it’s caused an injury. Was the toy broken or defective to be able to cause that injury?

I'd continue to send her if...

You are otherwise happy with the nursery
Your dd actually wants to go
The other child won't be returning

Sounds like it was a horrible situation. Your poor DD. I can understand why you feel so upset. If you really can't bear to send her though, just don't send her back. It's only for a short while and I doubt it will affect her friendships once she starts school.

if it was me I would want her to go back as I think teaching children resilience is important.

Having said that, there are a number of steps I would take with the nursery. I’d want a meeting with them to review the incident. Be clear that they won’t(or certainly shouldn’t) discuss actions they are taking in response to the other child. You want a meeting focused on you and your child - what will the be doing to keep your child safe? Have they investigated the series of events leading up to the incident? What processes have they identified to change or implement to help keep children safe in future? What actions have they put in place to stop this happening again.

if you do all this and are satisfied with their answers, send her back. If you are not, remove her and make a formal complaint.

Unfortunately as others have said, this happens a lot and you will probably encounter similar scenarios as she progresses through school, although hopefully not as serious. Finding the best way to calmly engage with the setting (school, nursery, whatever) that helps convey the seriousness of your concern is your aim.

I think you have to prepare yourself that these things happen unfortunately

Absolutely not! If I placed my child with a known violent child I would be asked a lot of questions on my ability to keep my child safe. Nursery’s are equally culpable.

Is the exclusion permanent? I assume he’s been excluded before and then returned?

Their parents must need a place so they can work or it may have been recommended if the parents don’t work and struggle.

You need clear facts, you are also within your rights to sue, I doubt that the care giver was impressed to be left alone with 8 kids and a known aggressive child. Seeing would help her and give her the support she needs. More parents that complain the more weight the nursery will have in getting the support the staff and children need.

Put it in writing.

@Moma1821
I understand your concern and anxiety however I would say it's very important to try to not pass this on to your child.
Although terrible this is an isolated incident, speak to the nursery and find out what they are doing to ensure nothing like this happens again. Speak to them at length if you need to, write complaints etc whatever you feel is needed to move forward.
However it's also important to make things ok for your child - she has friends there, taking her away from them may feel like a punishment for her, she won't understand your fears, it may make her more anxious about starting school and she may develop a fear of other children. Kids pick up on the emotions their parents are projecting but won't necessarily understand the background so it may become a big thing that becomes harder for her to move on from.
My eldest son and I witnessed a terrible accident at a similar age to your daughter, we were heavily involved in the aftermath, taking the severely injured child to hospital where she ended up in surgery (as it was quicker than the ambulance) and it took a very very long time (years) for him to get over it and I partially blame myself because he saw my reaction to it and the fact that I couldn't get over it and he took his lead from me. He still remembers it now as a teenager.
Conversely my youngest son split his head open tripping and falling into a wall, lots of blood, absolute mess but my DH dealt with it very calmly (he's a dr) and that made me calm too and DS wasn't bothered as soon as told him it was going to be ok even though it hurt quite a bit and required stitches. He barely remembers the incident.

As a Nursery Teacher of 20 years experience my general feeling is that incidents like this used to be very rare but are getting more common recently.
I'm not sure if it's due to lock down but I strongly suspect it is?

The normal ratio for children in nursery is
1:3 under 2s
1:4 Under 3s
1:8 3+ ( this can rise to 1:13 with a nursery teacher with QTS)

I suspect as well the nursery nurse who was present is probably beside herself about the incident. I know I would be.
Posters are saying the attacker should have been with a more experienced nursery nurse. These are few and far between, as people are leaving in droves. There is a National shortage of nursery nurses.

Be aware that Boris is trying to make the ratios higher, so more accidents will happen.

amp.theguardian.com/business/2022/apr/26/boris-johnson-pushes-to-relax-health-and-safety-rules-to-ease-cost-of-living

That must have been frightening @Moma1821 . Nothing can really prepare you for bei g told your child has been injured by someone else and needed hospital are.

However, I think you need to be careful not to catastrophise the situation. Yes she got injured and yes she’ll have a scar.
BUT she also doesn’t seem phased out and traumatised by it. She us entering a phase in her life when she is more likely yo injure herself, fall over, break bones etc… and ime it’s always worse fir the parent than fir the child!

By any mean, if you don’t feel
you can trust the nursery, find another one for the baby. But I would think twice fir your dd who would have her whole routine disturbed.
I would double and triple check with nursery what sort of measures they have in place, which could involve more staff around that child or more experienced staff etc… but as much as possible, I would make it as much of non event as possible ESPECIALLY if you feel your dd is getting a lot from going to nursery