Do you feel like there's something fundamentally unlikeable about you?

[Astralis]

I don't really know why I'm posting. I've just spent the afternoon at a school fundraising fun day and I feel like shit. If you ever go to these things do you find that while nobody is actively unpleasant, you feel like you're just not welcome?

@onelittlefrog thanks for NT’splaining. 😳

True it would be nice to have the validation and I have looked into it but it seems that it's either a massive waiting list or £££ and the tests are geared towards men so women tend to get misdiagnosed. Also you need to take a parent with you to be questioned about your childhood and that's not an option for me.

Yes. Definitely.

I would also use the term “autistic” rather than “person with autism”. Because people don’t see me as a person with autism. They don’t see me as a person at all. First and foremost they see me as autistic - being a person is secondary, and that has defined my whole life. You cannot separate the diagnosis from the person. Autism is not something I’m “with” or that I “have” - it’s something that I fundamentally AM.

Maybe if people want to call me a “person with autism” then they should start treating me as a person first. But they don’t. They treat me as autistic and they exclude me on that basis. They never get as far as realising that I’m also a person with feelings. 😡

I just think it's a really unhelpful thing to point out and reinforce to an ND person who is struggling to socialise
Then you don’t understand what it’s like to be autistic. To be hated by people your whole life and not understand why. To feel guilty and blame yourself. To cry and think you must be horrible because nobody wants to be your friend.

When it’s explained that NTs don’t like NDs, the weight of guilt is suddenly lifted. It’s not my fault. It’s not anything I’m doing wrong. I’m not horrible. NTs just don’t like autistics.

Oops @onelittlefrog I hope you don't regret stumbling across this post, as I think what's happened here is actually quite interesting.

I posted asking whether other ND people feel like there's something fundamentally unlikeable about them.

Someone posted a study that shows that yes, NT people sense the differences in ND people even after just briefly watching them on video.

I (and I think other people too) read that and thought "that's interesting, yes I can relate to that, okay so it's not that I smell weird then" 😂

And I realise that I'm guessing, but it looks like you've been concerned that people here might feel sad etc about this study and you think it was a mistake to mention the study on this thread. You added that you're friends with ND people, maybe that was meant as a hopeful "hey ND and NT people can be friends! There's nothing wrong with you"? I'm thinking you thought it was a nice counterpoint to a discussion of how an NT group did recognise ND traits even on video and rejected them based on that. But actually for ND people this study is actually the type of evidence that's completely relevant and appropriate and even useful to us, and we're reading it thinking "there you go, yep, there is something fundamentally unlikeable about us, question answered. Thanks, that's really interesting. "

Now if course this is only my view of what's happened and I am one person, probably autistic, probably with ADHD. But to me it's a really interesting and informative example of different communication styles.

Also, just for clarity on this point since you're being cast as the NT side of the group, have you looked into autism in adult females? I ask because so many of us start our journey due to external events, e.g. becoming parents ourselves or noticing that lots of our female friends are getting their kids diagnosed and start looking into it.

Just to add, before going deep into the rabbit hole of learning about autism and ADHD, if someone had said something about "feeling fundamentally unlikeable" to me then my immediate response would have probably been asking the lines of "there's nothing wrong with you!" rather than @ofwarren digging out some relevant facts.

Anyway thanks for your contribution, I think it's been very enlightening.

"I have very little patience or tolerance for the ridiculous NT way of conversing"

I came on this thread as an NT to say I often feel like this, in fact, I think it's part of the human condition! However, language like this is unhelpful and divisive.

if someone had said something about "feeling fundamentally unlikeable" to me then my immediate response would have probably been asking the lines of "there's nothing wrong with you!"
I don’t feel fundamentally unlikeable. I think I’m actually a nice person and I try my best to be kind and decent. But based on the evidence that for decades people have rejected me, I have to acknowledge that I AM unlikeable even if I don’t feel that way. You saying “there’s nothing wrong with you” does not match the empirical evidence that everyone I meet dislikes me.

I think @onelittlefrog was flinching at a group of 'autistics' rather than 'autistic' which is different to be fair. I would be offended to be called 'an autistic' although I refer to myself as autistic.
Having said that, the rest of the 'it's just one group, try another! Lots of my friends are ND!' fails to recognise the continuous experience we have of not fitting in.
In fact I have failed to fit in so spectacularly that people have felt the need to flag how shit a person I am through letters, emails and sharing with others despite my interactions with them being minimal and often based on my fear of them.

Yep. I'm a cunt. I swear. I'm Irish. I don't suffer fools.

Who I really am? I'm empathetic and kind.

There is fuck all that you can tell me that I will judge you for.

ENoeuf I have failed to fit in so spectacularly that people have felt the need to physically attack me. The latest incident was only a couple of months ago - I was picking my child up from school and another mum decided that my facial expression and eye contact wasn’t quite right and I was “looking at her funny” so she hit me. Now I have to wear dark glasses to pick my child up because I can’t make eye contact like an NT person.

I have had good friends tell me that when they first met me they thought I was disinterested in people and snooty. It couldn’t be further from reality, but it’s apparently the impression I give off. I’m autistic and it’s hard for me to jump in with groups and new situations. I really have tried to make a better first impression, but I just can’t.

If it helps, I use my current favourite autism graphic...

Reading with interest

I actually do quite well in job interviews, and things like presentations at work. They're short and structured and I feel like I understand the social script to follow.

It's when it comes to chatting around the water cooler, or school events, I have no idea what I'm doing "wrong" but it's clear people don't want to talk to me.

Yes. I don’t know why but I struggle to make meaningful female friendships even though I really feel I’m a nice person. I always feel like I care more about them than they do me.
I’m quite shy and even though I have really improved that I still don’t seem to have that easy way about me. I now just am used to it x

bloody hell @BananaShrimp that’s horrendous. I can imagine that happening in certain situations. Weirdly I am terrified of going to prison because I know I’d be the one beaten up or sliced in the showers. (I’m not a criminal just it’s an irrational fear).

I'm so sorry to read that, @BananaShrimp . Have you reported that to the school and the police? At the very least, if you can't face reporting it as a crime, you should tell the school as you need to be kept safe when visiting the school.

I absolutely know this feeling.

Thing is though - I can do well in some situations and can sometimes make friends and get accepted. I don't know what the difference is - other people or me.

I do tend to do better in situations that are more organised - where my role is clear.

I did well with toddler groups -- I don’t know if being surrounded by young children made me more approachable- or again having a role and focusing on the kids made it all easier- school gate/playground was harder. I was very good as a receptionist - as I'm quiet and shy that did surprise me but again my role was clear.

But when I have made friends, it often been with people also ND or suffering from anxiety or something or other extreme very socially adept and they make first moves – though few occasions I have ended up feeling like a pity friend.

I also seem to improve with time – first impressions can be negative I apparently do come across as very aloof or very shy – I’ve also had complaints I smile too much.

School events like fete do seem particularly bad experiences - only worse was last primary random wonder about thing - I was by myself and child was in task shut away with visiting dignitary - no-one spoke to me so was left to wonder round and see other children doing tasks in classrooms otehr parenst were in groups or family groups and I just felt lost left early. That schools sports days were bad experiences you had to sit on grass and everyone had family so ended up in space by myself but could focus on the kids.

Oh my god - that's awful.

I've been blanked and ignore or talked loudly about and once shouted at - but never attacked.

Would the school not allow you to pick up from another door? Though I wouldn't be surpised if she had form for causing trouble - so may well be worth reporting to school so they can ban from grounds or at least warn off.

I can remember attending training where we were specifically told to use the term "people with autism" rather than "autistic people" as they hoped that would help folk see autistic people as people.
I know language can be powerful, but clearly it isn't magic!

And I so clearly recognise the thing of someone thinking that you're "looking at them funny." I remember waiting in a queue and not looking at anything in particular, just staring in the middle distance, when I was informed that another girl in the queue thought I was giving her dirty looks and was going to come and beat me up if I didn't stop. I don't even know who it was I was supposedly looking at, but I very carefully faced the wall until we could get in and thankfully didn't get hit.

I hadn’t really thought about it in years - but I’ve been attacked twice by strange men for “looking at them wrong”. Once on a bus on the way home from school and once in a bar. 🤷‍♀️

School has a 15 minute pickup window and I normally aim for the last couple of minutes because I get overwhelmed by the crowd of parents. On this particular day the school was late unlocking the gate so the other parents were still queuing when I arrived. Which is how I ended up looking at someone and getting hit. I told the school, apparently the parent has form for this sort of behaviour. It’s not the first time I’ve been attacked for my autism and probably won’t be the last. I’ve been wearing dark glasses just in case but since then the gate has been unlocked at the correct time and I haven’t seen the parent again.