Muslim revert, in love with non-Muslim man

[cinnamonswirlsandcoffee]

Salaam sisters, hope everyone is well. It's my first time posting on this group, just looking for advice.. particularly welcome would be advice from fellow reverts or those who don't come originally from a Muslim family or background.
I'm a white, British revert who reverted almost 20 years ago. Over the last 20 years I've had a serious of disasterous relationships/marriages with Muslim men from various backgrounds and different countries, all of which failed. Usually due to cultural clashes, them being unable/unwilling to accept or respect my culture, trying to re-shape me into an "Arab" woman in terms of dress, cooking and language to be spoken at home. I studied Arabic at uni so have a good grasp of it tbf.
Fast forward to last year, I met and fell in love with a British non-Muslim man. He's of no particular religion but respects mine. He has been fully respectful from day one. He treats me 100 times better than any man I've previously been involved with.
Trouble is, I'm getting a lot of judgement and grief over my relationship with him.I attend a revert's group at the local mosque. People who I thought were my friends seem to have so much to say about my choices, I find them overstepping and trying to get too involved. Pressing me to try to get him to accept Islam. Just to be clear, he's not interested in embracing Islam (nor any religion) and I have to accept that. I respect his wishes.
Have any reverts here been in a similar situation, I mean falling in love with a non Muslim man years after reverting and after struggling with several toxic/dysfunctional relationships with "Muslim" men?

Salam alaikum, I would like to help you try to figure things out. I am also a revert of over 20 years. I have not been in the situation you find yourself in but I can imagine how this may happen and the varied responses you will receive from both Muslims and non Muslims. I understand that he is probably kind and respectful and I am sure that this makes you feel happy and content much of the time but I wonder if you also have moments where you ask yourself if this is the right choice when you consider not only this short life but also the next one? I am sure that your friends at the mosque speak from a point of wanting what is best for you even though it must seem tiring to listen to at times. I agree that trying to push him (or anyone) to revert isn’t the right way to go about things if someone is to fully accept Islam for themselves. I wonder if it might be worth going back and reflecting on the previous marriages/relationships you mentioned so that you can begin to understand yourself a bit more and also to think about your hopes for the future and how you would like to see your life in the next year/5/10 years. I hope you have found my message to be somewhat helpful as a starting point :)

Asalam, I can totally understand where you are coming from but I think it's important to consider what will bring you closer to Allah and into the next life and what will distance you further. Whether you want your happiness here in this temporary world or the akhirah. It's a choice only you can make for yourself.

I say this as someone who was in a similar position. I was with someone for quite a few years. He was a Christian. And I realised that being in this relationship was taking me away from Islam and I was being selfish to stay in it.
I'm 100% happy I made the right choice for myself to end the relationship. And I regret the years I spent in a haram relationship.

I don't mean for this to come across as judgemental, just want to give some advice that will help you make the right one.

I'm not a Muslim, I'm a happy atheist.

Maybe look at it this way - God created everyone (so you believe), including this great man. Don't lose your chance at happiness over what some members of a religion would say about it.

With all due respect, the op was asking for advice from an Islamic point of view.

Op I am not a Muslim but there was a very similar thread about a year ago if you can search for it. There was a lot of argument over the word 'revert' but there was some good advice too.

I suppose this is your time to work out what your values are - do you believe there can be a happy marriage between people with similar values but different religious faiths? (Of course people with very traditional ways of practising their religion will tell you no, but what do YOU think?)
Do you think a marriage to him would make you feel guilty?
How do you feel about not marrying him and walking away?
How important is it to you to pray or attend religious things with your husband?
Do you want children and how would you want them to be raised in terms of faith, would he support that?
Does he support you in your faith or make it harder for you?
If a friend in a similar situation asked you for advice a while ago what would you have said?
How important are the views of others in your revert group? Do you care what they say as you want their acceptance or because they are speaking your own thoughts out loud?
Do YOU (not others) think that god/allah would think this would be a good happy match or wrong?

I am not a muslim so I can’t give you any advice from a msulim perspective. I would say I know quite a few relationships where people have different belief systems but there is respect for each others faith(or lack of). I would also say people practice their faith in many ways, go to Turkey or Lebanon for example and Islam can look slightly different.

I would worry that you are being pressured into/away from something because of other peoples beliefs and not your own. Pp is right you need to consider what your values and beliefs around this is. Unexpectedlysinglemum has provided some very good advice imo.

Op, you have been given advice from a few people, many of whom are not Muslim (apologies Unexpectedlysinglemum, I am not sure if you are Muslim or not). While I understand where everyone is coming from, I feel it is unfair that people who are not Muslim are offering their thoughts when this was not the angle she was looking for. I hope you will bear all of this in mind when you come back to read these messages.

I think it's also unclear op what your question is? Is it

• can I justify this relationship islamically?

Or

• how do I deal with the disappointment of my regret friends judging me with a decision I'm happy with?

(I'm not Muslim sorry I didn't clarify - I have lots of friends who are who all have different perspectives about this kind of thing so that's why I wanted to encourage op to look for her own values and interpretation of her faith, but if it's question 1 then I'm definitely not helpful to op! I will bow out now, I hadn't noticed it was Muslim Mumsnet which I appreciate maybe seen as protected space, unless op comes back and asks me a question) xxx

Assalamu alaikum sister, I haven't been in your situation, so can't give specific advice from that perspective. What I find helpful though, at times when I'm unsure what the right path is and feel like my faith is being tested, is to pray istikhara. Allah knows best what's written for you and what the right choice is for you. So, my advice would be to pray istikhara and trust in Allah that He will show you the right path and give you the strength to take it.

Actually this is very good advice.

This man treats you so well yet you think god would prefer it if you were with a Muslim man who was abusive?

OP has come on this board for advice from fellow reverts/muslims and not from those who do not understand Islam and judgemental.

I understand why you think this may be judgemental, however is it not a valid question?

Are abusive Muslim men better in God's eyes, than non Muslim non abusive men? I'm not arguing for or against religion, it's a question that seems to have an obvious answer on the outside? I would like to understand more.

Why are you moderating this thread? Why is any mention of Islam so controlling?

100%.

I think the other poster was trying to explain that the OP had posted on the Muslim Mumsnetters board, seeking advice from reverts specifically, as she said in her original post.

Unlike some other boards that are primarily for use by people who have particular faiths, professions, etc., the Muslim Mumsnetters board isn't shielded from appearing in 'Active' and other places, so there are often replies on threads on the board from people who have seen a thread elsewhere and perhaps not realised what board it's been posted on.

@redrudolph OP has posted on the Muslim Mumsnetters board, seeking support from those who can relate to her experience, especially as a revert/convert to Islam. It’s not fair to turn this into a discussion about her faith or to question her beliefs, especially when she’s shared something so personal and is looking for guidance from fellow Muslims.

Muslim women already face a lot of discrimination and judgment in broader society. We’re often easy targets for verbal, racial, and even physical abuse because many of us are visibly Muslim. This should be a safe space where she can speak freely without having to justify her faith. Your questions are valid and important, but this thread might not be the best place for that kind of discussion.

Abusive men are bastards, whatever faith they claim to follow. To the bin with them.

The Prophet (pbuh) repeatedly spoke out against violence against women and about the importance of respect and kindness within relationships, including teachings such as: The best of you is the best to his [wife/wives].

There are additional theological and social questions regarding relationships in situations such as the OP's though, which are probably factoring in to her dilemma...

The OP (like me!) is a revert - someone who is Muslim but did not come from a Muslim family or 'grow up' with the faith. People who have grown up in a particular faith and interplay between faith and culture can have their own expectations of what people coming into that faith or culture later in life 'should' be like in order to fit their idea of what being a member of that faith or culture should look like. That's quite similar to, for example, how people have expectations of how immigrants moving to a new culture 'should' behave. It sounds like some of the men the OP met had expectations that they were unable or unwilling to shift.

From a theological perspective, as in many faiths, there are debates about inter-faith relationships. This isn't unique to Islam, nor are the social pressures and judgements arising from such relationships. With the many different schools of thought in Islam (there are a lot of scholars who have spent years and years studying and interpreting religious texts), there are different views on what 'best practice' looks like, how big a deal it would be for different people to be in inter-faith relationships, etc. I don't know what school or schools the OP may prefer, or how practising they are, which would factor in to any advice about that.

@BrownBirdWelcomesWhiteWave
I completely understand where you’re coming from with this question, and I really appreciate that you’re asking it with genuine curiosity. It’s definitely a complex issue, and I’d like to try and explain. I do realise that some of this may come across as sensitive, but please know that my intention is not to offend anyone, so I apologise in advance if anything does.

From my perspective, a person first establishes whether they believe in God or not, and whether they believe the Quran is the truth. Once that belief is confirmed, it brings with it a sense of trust in God’s wisdom and guidance for how we live, even if we don’t always fully understand the reasons behind every aspect. If we have already established we believe the religion to be true, then we accept that these are God’s commands, and we try to follow them to the best of our ability.

If someone were to focus on the rules and regulations first, without first establishing their belief, I can see how it would feel restrictive or even unfair. It’s only after you believe that you begin to understand the purpose behind the way of life that God has set out for us, and you have faith and trust in His guidance.

Islam teaches that character and how we treat others is incredibly important, and no form of abuse is ever justified in the eyes of God. Unfortunately, there are Muslim men who abuse their positions, or conflate ‘culture’ with the actual teachings of Islam. I’ve been in a similar situation to the OP and now feel that, if I were to seek a new relationship, it will never be with men from certain cultures where attitudes towards women are un-Islamic and harsh.

From the Islamic perspective, a believer in God is considered better than someone who rejects Him. I understand that this might sound offensive, but I’m not trying to offend—just trying to clarify the doctrine. However, in Islam, a person is not a Muslim simply because she or he claims to be. It is not about the ‘label’ - it’s their actions and beliefs that determine whether they truly are believers, and it is these actions and beliefs that will determine their standing with God.

A person who is not Muslim but demonstrates good character - someone who is kind, polite, doesn’t harm others, and lives with integrity - will certainly be rewarded in life by God for their good actions.

There's no compulsion in Islam, that's where I start when it comes to making any big decisions. That plus forcing someone to believe is not belief! I know many Muslim friends (who were raised Muslims from birth) who've married non- Muslim men. They follow their religion and their husbands follow theirs (or not as the case might be). I'd personally do an istikharah prayer and ask for guidance.

@cinnamonswirlsandcoffee Asalamualaykum sister I pray you are doing well. I see some other sisters have already given you excellent advice. I have not been in that situation myself but the only advice I would give is to pray 'Allahumma khirli wa'khtarli' il find

Sorry posted too soon
It's the mini istikhara dua (asking Allah for guidance) I pray it often when I am unsure about something.

Also just to add that I'm sorry you have had bad experiences in the past. Those men were acting contrary to the teachings of Islam.

I'm not sure I wrote the transliteration correctly so I found this

@nomadiclife thank you for your kind response.

A person who is not Muslim but demonstrates good character - someone who is kind, polite, doesn’t harm others, and lives with integrity - will certainly be rewarded in life by God for their good actions.

I picked up on this section, and this is how we should all live really - I'm not religious, but I also think if religion makes people happy and contented, then thats brilliant.

There is always the question: if you are good, and don't expect reward, is that better than someone who believes that if they are good they will go to a better place. (doing things for reward)

Again - thank you for your response, it is so very appreciated

@BrownBirdWelcomesWhiteWave

There is always the question: if you are good, and don't expect reward, is that better than someone who believes that if they are good they will go to a better place. (doing things for reward)

This is really difficult to respond to because I don’t want to offend anyone. From the Muslim/Islamic perspective: the first person isn’t better than the second - unless she or he believes in God.

In Islam, a believer who performs good deeds doesn’t do them solely for the reward. Rather, they do them to please God, out of obedience to Him, because He commands us to be good and just.

As Muslims, we believe that God exists and that He sent prophets and messengers throughout history to guide humanity. Islam is seen as the final part of God’s message, following the teachings of Judaism and Christianity. We believe in all the Jewish and Christian prophets, including Moses and Jesus, but we also believe that Prophet Muhammad was the final messenger, as no further scriptures or prophets will be sent after him (though we do believe in the return of Jesus).

Being kind and good to others, whether believers or not, is extremely important in Islam. But, as Muslims, we believe that our primary duty is to first be good to our Creator—the one who gave us life in the first place.

Doing good in this world is valuable, and such actions are rewarded in this life. However, from an Islamic perspective, rejecting God is seen as the ultimate form of ingratitude because it disregards the very source of our existence - the Creator who gave us everything. Therefore, while everyone is rewarded for their actions, these rewards are not the same. There is also a reward in the next life, and this reward is specifically for those who both believe in God and do good. I understand this might feel unfair, but the belief is rooted in the idea that acknowledging and honouring the One who gave us life is fundamental.