Muslim revert, in love with non-Muslim man

[cinnamonswirlsandcoffee]

Salaam sisters, hope everyone is well. It's my first time posting on this group, just looking for advice.. particularly welcome would be advice from fellow reverts or those who don't come originally from a Muslim family or background.
I'm a white, British revert who reverted almost 20 years ago. Over the last 20 years I've had a serious of disasterous relationships/marriages with Muslim men from various backgrounds and different countries, all of which failed. Usually due to cultural clashes, them being unable/unwilling to accept or respect my culture, trying to re-shape me into an "Arab" woman in terms of dress, cooking and language to be spoken at home. I studied Arabic at uni so have a good grasp of it tbf.
Fast forward to last year, I met and fell in love with a British non-Muslim man. He's of no particular religion but respects mine. He has been fully respectful from day one. He treats me 100 times better than any man I've previously been involved with.
Trouble is, I'm getting a lot of judgement and grief over my relationship with him.I attend a revert's group at the local mosque. People who I thought were my friends seem to have so much to say about my choices, I find them overstepping and trying to get too involved. Pressing me to try to get him to accept Islam. Just to be clear, he's not interested in embracing Islam (nor any religion) and I have to accept that. I respect his wishes.
Have any reverts here been in a similar situation, I mean falling in love with a non Muslim man years after reverting and after struggling with several toxic/dysfunctional relationships with "Muslim" men?

@cinnamonswirlsandcoffee you haven’t come back yet to share your thoughts further but it may be that you are quietly reading the comments. As always with questions regarding anything to do with Islam, it has been taken over somewhat by people who are not Muslim and it has now turned into a discussion where some Muslims are having to try and explain their beliefs. It is of course interesting to listen to a variety of points of views but once again, I will say that the poster asked for thoughts from reverts so she will now have to wade through other discussions. I agree that her question isn’t quite clear - do you want advice on how to deal with Muslims who are telling you to end things/get him to become Muslim or are you struggling with what to do? I imagine a bit of both. You have been advised to do istikhara by some people here. I am not sure I agree with this - istakhara is more for coming to a decision about things that are halal in the first place. Again, I go back to my initial advice of trying to learn more about yourself, how it was that you were caught up in a cycle of unhappy relationships with men and what your hopes are for the future. It would be good to know more about you so as to help you further :)

@cinnamonswirlsandcoffee

Salam Sister,
I hope you don’t mind, but I have sent you a PM. I have been through something very similar and can understand what you must be going through.

@Istilldontlikeolives I'm not a Muslim but from a Muslim country with Sharia law. Most religions don't allow interfaith relationships if you're a true believer anyway but of course in our country only Islamic rules are involved in the legal system. We all also learn it in school.
For us while it is acknowledged that Muslim men can marry women of the book, while Muslim women cannot, anybody who marries a Muslim must convert. It's the law.

But even in such a strict place people have their own level of adherence. Some quietly marry Muslims and have them convert in law but don't practice. Some Muslims drink and smoke. Even our own leaders practice such things in secret.

OP the question is very simple - do you want to follow your religion strictly and potentially stay single unless you meet a Muslim man, who's a good partner?

Or do you want to overlook this?

What other advice can anybody give? It is clearly forbidden in religion. No devout Muslim is going to tell the OP otherwise.

Question of judgement which as you raised is something else and again, reverts especially are very strict. Even if Mumsnet says people should not be judging how is this going to help OP

If the members of your revert group are pressuring you to get your partner to accept Islam then maybe you could remind them that the prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was married to a Christian wife and if I remember correctly he didn't pressure her to accept Islam. I think maybe the pressure and over stepping you feel from your revert group is rooted in their concern for you. I would do my best to deal with them compassionately.

Trouble is, I'm getting a lot of judgement and grief over my relationship with him.I attend a revert's group at the local mosque. People who I thought were my friends seem to have so much to say about my choices, I find them overstepping and trying to get too involved. Pressing me to try to get him to accept Islam.

it seems like it works both way and Muslims also judge as OP said in her original post so pls don't make out as if it's only non Muslim ppl judge, MN should is a safe place so should be mosque

*MN is a safe place so should be mosque

I’m Muslim and married a white man who converted to Islam.

He is not practicing but we get on in many islsmic ways… he is kind, caring and non abusive which are true Islamic principles.

my children are brought up as Muslims with no objections. As long as he practice active Islam in his deeds.

I think it be difficult to marry him if he doesn’t convert as Muslim women must marry Muslim man.

In Islam it is permissible for a Muslim man to marry a non Muslim woman but it is not permissible for a Muslim woman to marry a non Muslim man.

So Prophet Muhammad (SAW) married a non Muslim but she quickly converted to Islam.

There are not different thought on it. The consensus is that a Muslim man may marry a chaste woman who is a Christian or a Jew, but the preference is he marries a Muslim woman.

A Muslim woman does not have this option, she must only marry a Muslim man to be in keeping with her faith. You can ask for advice on here and get it from many perspectives, but if you’re asking what Islam says about it, that’s the answer

@Stillthequeen there are different opinions on, for example, whether a man who converts for marriage but does not practise would be an acceptable spouse. Some people would argue that wouldn't be a genuine acceptance of Islam and that he would still be a non-believing husband, while other people would argue that he would be fulfilling the requirement and practice may come later in his journey. In terms of men marrying non-Muslim women, there are also differences of opinion in the extent to which this is acceptable or disliked.

Mumsnet is just the most insanely Islamophobic space lol.

Life is too short to pass up love in the name of any religion. Respectfully to anyone who believes a relationship of obedience and subservience will bring them closer to god, it probably doesn’t- ultimately you’re in love with a human being who your soul deems right for you- go for it.

When your time comes you could always ask god if he’s really going to judge you for being happy. A merciful one probably wouldn’t.

– from someone who chose a life of happiness 😊

What is Islamophobic about my post?

Are abusive Muslim men better in God's eyes, than non Muslim non abusive men?

That you think/assume this is what anyone is saying here. We're Muslims and as Mumsnet tells us constantly, the men we marry and the ones we raise are only and can only be abusive, and we are just enablers and defenders of it.

🙄

Men of all backgrounds, faiths and cultures may be abusive. No abusive man should be considered a viable option for a spouse.

Are abusive Muslim men better in God's eyes, than non Muslim non abusive men?

Where did I say ALL Muslim men are abusive. I did not. You even posted what I said.

My question was "Are abusive Muslim men better in God's eyes, than non Muslim non abusive men?" If you want to assign racism to that, you're reaching.

Do you mean in terms of suitability as a potential spouse?

A Muslim woman should seek to marry a man who is Muslim and of good character.

The mainstream teachings are that a non-Muslim man would need to become Muslim to marry a Muslim woman, which is not an isolated approach in faiths - several faiths have similar teachings. Marrying a non-Muslim man could increase the risks of a woman's rights in Islam not being respected in her marriage (eg financial rights, rights to practise her faith) and could make it harder for her to use established pathways for resolving any disputes that may arise, as well as potentially making it harder for her to have any children brought up as Muslims (most people who practise a faith will want to bring up children within that faith). However, there are different interpretations as to what a non-Muslim man would need to do to 'qualify' as a suitable candidate for marriage. Some people may be happy with a simple 'converting for marriage', some might want a potential spouse to be more practising so would want him to be more experienced in life as a Muslim, etc.

A man of poor character is not a suitable marriage candidate, regardless of whether or not he describes himself as Muslim. Being abusive is an automatic exclusion criteria.

It could also be argued that an abusive man who considers himself to be Muslim is risking severe punishment, as his actions in being abusive go very much against the teachings of Islam - men and women should treat each other with respect and decency.

I had an atheist friend who married a Muslim man but the marriage broke down as he wanted to raise the children as Muslim and she did not. ( I'm not a Muslim, but this anecdote seemed relevant).

This is a very good example of why there are rules and recommendations regarding who to marry and conversations that should happen beforehand. Thanks for sharing!

OP did not ask whether she should marry an abusive Muslim man or a non abusive non Muslim man. She asked about this non-Muslim man. There is no reason she shouldn't meet a wonderful Muslim man in the future (just as she has met a wonderful non Muslim man now).

The fact she has previously had abusive relationships (which these forums alone daily reveal as an absolutely non-religion specific experience) does not mean every relationship she will have with a Muslim will be abusive; as OP herself clearly knows; that's why she has described her previously partners as "Muslims" in quotes (she knows their behaviour is the opposite of Islamic). It's context as to why this current relationship is so lovely to her and why she doesn't want to give it up.

Given this, your question makes zero sense, except in the context of you believing that either:

1. Significant amounts of Muslim men are abusive and if OP has a relationship in the future with a Muslim it will probably be abusive; or
2. Muslims believe that abuse is acceptable from a husband to a wife.

Either premise is Islamophobic.

And yet still you reach,

If I said you were being annoying by keeping poking and trying to make my responses racist - am I being racist? No I am addressing your behaviour, Its you that has the problem, not your religion.

Wow, did that response seem like a clever argument to you?

Why are you in our board, being disrespectful, on a post where OP asked for specifically Muslim perspectives? Please go away.

Unfortunately for you, you dont get to be rude and tell people to go away from this board.

At no point have I been disrespectful to anyone, Its not me thats being rude, and trying to find racism everywhere.

I suggest if you want to silence people you disagree with, you go to facebook and block the nasty people.

Put a sock in it @BrownBirdWelcomesWhiteWave and @Yazzi and stop detailing the thread.

What a post to make on a religious topic. Being in love it's not the be all and the reason to discard religious belief. The goal is to reach the after life and enjoy the rewards of having lived life as God commands.
It isn't always the easiest choice, it is,more often than not, a hard fight between your own desires and what you know is the better choice.
Op, Halal and Haram are clear,even if sometimes we wish there was a shortcut. You are free to go ahead and marry a non Muslim man,but you know what Islam says about it.
Previous Muslim husbands being assholes does not mean that there are not men out there that are practicing,believers and as such know how a woman should be treated and know to give a woman the rights that Allah has set up for her.