Does anyone else feel like the Islamophobia on Mumsnet has ramped up in recent days?

[ForestFawn]

There have been several faux innocent threads started which have given posters the opportunity to be open in their Islamophobia. It’s truly depressing to read.

People will have different experiences of freedom and rights in various countries, but in the UK, women and homosexuals have rights protected by law, and are not persecuted by law aligned with scripture that primarily worships men as superior.

I completely regret that thread. I don't know what I was thinking. I can't believe how much hatred they have and how freely they're saying all these vile things.

Came on here to say sorry. It's given some really nasty people a perfect platform to be so rude.

For example. As a Muslim woman in Islam.

I have the right to earn my own money and to choose to work or not. (Many people think we are forced to be stay at home mums and wives)

We have the right to divorce if not treated well.

We are well protected by men.

When people say we have no rights or freedoms. It's normally directed to hijab and way of dress... again. We could argue that women in the west are opressed to dress a certain way as its now seen wrong to cover up.

There are many others.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/70042

This is quite a insightful read

@Peonii you didn't do anything wrong. Hope you are ok

What rights do you think the uk gives women that Muslim women don't have @pinkzebra02 ?

I don't think the UK or US for example are particularly great for women's rights or other equality related issues - it's something the world in general is pretty bad at. This isn't a thread about that, though. It's about how people are abusive towards Muslims.

I think a relevant topic to consider is cultural humility. Just because a culture is different does not make it inferior. And to build on that, just because a person might not understand or even particularly like another culture does not give them the right to be abusive towards people from that culture or who they perceive as being from that culture.

I am.. urgh it's just brought so much rubbish to so many people's day and I regret it.

Also just read this:
yaqeeninstitute.org/watch/series/episode-3-responding-to-the-foolish-and-ignorant

It's not your fault. Some people have a lot of hate in them. That's on them.

Agree @Scirocco but that and halal meat is always the focus on why people don't like Islam or religion in general.

Yet the uk is starting to take these rights and freedoms away from women. The rights and freedoms these posters are so proud of.

Womens anatomy is being shared with trans men. Women's spaces being eraded. Yet islam keeps these rights for women... Yet we are seen as backward... 🫠

No counrey is perfect, but in the countries you have mentioned the law isn't hugely influenced by religion (especially in the UK), so here, women have more freedoms and rights that are protected by law than in some countries where the law is more influenced by religion. You can argue with personal experience all you like, but it is well known how these rights and freedoms vary between these countries.

Part of it does come down to money and corruption though, as for example if you are a woman of a wealthier background in any country tries you'll probably enjoy more freedoms than a woman from a more impoverished background, in your own country and elsewhere.

In my line of work, I tutor people from different countries. I have met many women who have been denied education, abused and persecuted because they are female. They freely admit that they have more freedom and safety in the UK. I haven't (knowingly) worked with homosexuals from other countries, but the danger they live in in certain countries is well known and well documented.

They hid the thread in question now

Again. What are these rights and freedoms we don't have in Islam, that the UK give? @pinkzebra02

@pinkzebra02 as a woman who has grown up in and lived in the UK for years, there are many areas in which 'Western culture' is not protective of my rights. That does mean other people can't have had negative experiences in other places around the world, and I'm very aware of how people in countries with many different faiths experience sex-based or sexuality-based oppression.

Just as it wouldn't be right for me to be abusive towards people who embrace cultures I might personally find oppressive or even offensive, it isn't right for people to be abusive towards Muslims because they don't like Islam.

In the UK, women are free to do the same things a man does, whether they choose to or not. It is illegal to discriminate against a woman due to being female or things like being pregnant.

There is also less societal shame in doing certain things too, such as wearing what they choose to wear or spending time with men they are not married to, but that is more of a cultural difference rather than a legal one.

The main point is that a women's rights are clearly outlined in law, and not according to laws which are influenced by religion.

I explicity said it is not acceptable to abuse anyone, religious or not. But it is OK to express dislike for religion(s). It is freedom of speech, one of the many freedoms we enjoy in the UK.

Ok @pinkzebra02 I can do whatever a man does.... what can't we do?

I don't want to spend time with men I'm not related to. Never have done before I was Muslim. That's not a right taken away from women...its to protect them.

If that's all you have then I don't know what your understanding of us not having rights and freedoms are?

We are more protected in pregnancy etc than the western woman. We are supposed to have 40 days uninterrupted rest to heal after giving birth as an example. Western culture tries to get women back into work as soon as they can. Especially in the US as an example...

It's fine to not like Islam or any other faith. What is being flagged up in this thread, though, is that people express their dislike, not through respectful discussion or disengagement, but through abuse.

I'm not talking about personal experience when I talk about not liking religion, I'm talking about how religion usually limits all people, especially women, when it is allowed to influence law. It doesn't matter whether you want to spend time with a man or not, it matters that you have the right to without persecution or public shame.

Since people are mentioning the differences in rights with a particular focus on Islamic countries, let me use one as an example. What about Iran. If you visit the Wiki page on Women's rights in Iran, under the current global ranking section, you will see this:

(There) 'are no laws that penalize or prevent the dismissal of pregnant women from work, nor are there laws that provide rights for paternity or parental leave or tax-deductible payments for childcare. The Iranian Civil Code confers power on a husband to prevent his wife from taking any job found to be incompatible with the family interest or the dignity of the husband or his wife. Women have no legal protection against domestic violence or sexual harassment by anyone, and the constitution has no non-discrimination clause with gender as a protected category'

And on the topic of pregnancy and birth, working women in the UK are provided with statutory maternity pay to cover maternity leave, which is much longer than 40 days, and is funded by the state. Another right they are entitled to in UK law.

It is a shame that many people become abusive and it is true that it's more prevalent online, I'm hoping to have a discussion free of any of it.

Again. So we have the same rights then... apart from maybe not mixing with men...

The irans wiki page isn't referencing islamic law but a law in their country....

Because the law in that country is heavily influenced by religious doctrine.

No it isn't.... what about all the other Muslim countries then?

Ummm...

I can do the vast majority of things a man can do. I can't lead a male congregation in prayer, but that's no different from many other faiths, and I explicitly can lead a female congregation.

There are specific legal protections within Islamic guidance in relation to women's rights. There is also guidance that, unless secular law explicitly opposes Islam, it must be respected. So, the development of women's legal protections within UK law automatically applies for all women in the UK, including Muslim women. Where countries have lower levels of legal protections than are laid out in Islamic guidance, Muslims are expected to adhere to the higher standards.

I have rights around pregnancy, the postnatal period, etc that go beyond what is stipulated by secular law in some Western countries.

I can wear what I choose to wear. In fact, I receive less judgement around my clothing choices from other Muslims than I do from allegedly more liberated sectors of society. I also see far less objectification and exploitation of women by Muslim men than by non-Muslim men.

Muslim men have guidance on expected standards of conduct in their interactions with me, and I experience far less inappropriate behaviour as a result.

@Scirocco put it much better than I could

Trying to shift this particular thread topic to become that rather than letting the thread actually be about its topic - which is the prevalence of Islamophobic abuse - does come across as an attempt to minimise or deflect away from our very real experiences of that abuse, though.

This thread is in the Muslim Mumsnetters section, which was intended to be a safer space for Muslim posters to be able to post without being attacked, dismissed or minimised. Why are people then making such efforts to deflect away from our experiences and to require us to defend ourselves here?