Support thread for women with suspected/diagnosed/self-diagnosed ASD or ADHD

[EauRouge]

Previous thread here.

Hello all, I know I'm new but the old thread was full, so here's a shiny new one. This is a thread for adult women who have ASD or ADHD, or suspect they do, to support each other.

Here are some resources that might be useful:

Links

List of female AS traits by Tania Marshall.

Article about women and girls on the spectrum by NAS.

List of female traits by Everyday Aspergers

Musings of an Aspie- Cynthia Kim's blog (one of the few sources I have found about being a parent with Aspergers)

Autistic Women's Collective

Recognising ADHD in women from ADDitude Magazine

Resources for women with ADHD from ADDitude Magazine

Adult ADHD support (coming soon by the looks of things)

Books

Aspergirls by Rudy Simone

The Complete Guide to Aspergers Syndrome by Tony Attwood

You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy?!: The Classic Self-help Book for Adults with Attention Deficit Disorder by Kate Kelly (I haven't read this one but I have heard it recommended many times- apologies if it's no good!)

Online tests

(Online tests are not 100% certain but can give you a very good idea and a starting point for talking to your GP if you're seeking diagnosis)

RDOS Aspergers quiz (the best one IMO)

AQ test

ADHD test

ADHD questionnaire for women

Info dump complete

Please come and join in!

I'm home. Got the cat on board and feeling safe. Home sweet home.

If I had one wish for the world it would be a home for everyone and complete safety in that home. Thanks for your kindness and support all.

Glad you're back home and feeling better. Cats have magic healing powers, or something. Give him a big cuddle.

I have Crohn's, so yes to the stomach problems. I also suffer from reflux, I find Gaviscon Advance works well for me as my main problem isn't acid burning, it's regurgitating food back into my mouth. Gaviscon sits on top, keeping everything where it should be. And you don't absorb it so there's very few side effects.

Hello, suspected AS here... Seconding what's been said about the questions on RAADS-R!

I think I know what they're getting at but really... "I am considered a loner by those who know me best"! Uh, which loner is going to have people they know well enough to express this? Or am I missing something?

And "I can tell when someone says one thing but means something else" - just how am I supposed to know??

And "I like things to be exactly the same day after day and even small changes in my routines upset me" also confuses me - I don't need/have a set routine, but once I've settled on what I'm doing that day it can really confuse/throw me off if something unexpected changes it. Does that count?

So many questions like this!

Another weird thing I've noticed is how many of the questions automatically conjure up conversations/issues with ex (who I'm still friends with). However on further reflection it is only him I can recall having these issues with (erm, and an abusive ex from a while back...) So I'm not sure if (a) these issues ARE caused by AS but only show when very close to someone, or (b) he's using all avoidance and blaming/diversion techniques, so I think I'm missing something but he's actually being unreasonable. Or possibly (c) he has an ASD, mild BPDish thing, trauma issues, or something else that interferes with his relating.

I only scored 59 on the RAAD-R, but the results confuse me. Eg. for 'language' I scored 1. It says the average score for female NT's is 5.7, for female with ASD it's 13.1, and the threshold for supected ASD is 4. I don't understand this - why are NT's scoring above the threshold, on average? And how can I only have scored 1 - am I anti-ASD?!
The only one I scored above the threshold was sensory/motor.

Very confused now and feel like a freak - why do I have these problems? Why can't I just have been 'normal' and fitted in?

Hi, element, glad you are joining us :)

That RAADS-R test is crap, isn't it? It's so rigid and the questions are vague. Have you done the RDOS one? It's much better. I can't answer yes/no questions like 'do you know how to act in social situations?'- for me the answer is; mostly yes, but not without a hell of a lot of effort and I need a looooong break afterwards. So is that a yes or a no?

The problem with late diagnosis is that you may have spent an awfully long time perfecting the art of acting NT, so long that it's become a habit
and you might not even realise you're faking it. The only clue is the exhaustion and extra effort it takes just to act 'normal'.

Some of the questions have me stumped. The ones that say things like, your friends say you are this or that. Trouble is I don't have friends, I have aquaintences - just cannot think how to spell that word today!!

Because I keep my contact with people to the minimum and fairly superficial, no-one really knows me. Not even my family. They knew what I was like as a child but not now. I monitor most things I want to say as I know they could upset or people think I am very strange.

My last relationship certainly brought out my Aspergers to the max, though I was unaware at that time what it was.

I did the RDOS mentioned and got 178 N/D. My son (who I strongly suspect is Aspie) got 179!

He can mask extremely well for brief periods and can come across as Mr Sociable, but behind closed doors it can be very different.

We had to socialise yesterday and there was all that excruciating (to me) hugs and kissing. I can just about cope kissing the women, but I cannot kiss the men. I find the whole thing cringeworthy. And my reluctance is obvious so it is embarrassing too.

I don't think the questions based on what others think are useful and make me want to throttle the person who wrote them. It stinks of "Oh, let the normal people decide, their judgement can't possibly be flawed/overly critical/manipulative/covering up their own issues!" I've had more than enough of that from mental health professionals.

One question - is it possible to be AS and notice social cues but not understand/agree with them? Or be able to predict other's behaviour? because people are inconsistent. So for example, if I unintentionally annoy someone, I would totally pick up on the annoyance (I seem to pick up on the 'atmosphere' in a room, or subtle things from people that others don't notice) but I wouldn't quite understand what I'd done wrong. Or, more accurately, why what I'd done had annoyed them, based on how I'd have expected them to react. I can usually pull up examples of how they've acted in (from my pov) similar situations, how their reactions contradict their apparent/stated values etc. this never goes down well, don't do it. But I do pick up on their feelings, and actually automatically obey their silent commands/manipulation, and feel guilty, start desperately trying to make it better etc. (Only realised this recently). Generally I don't get the chance to talk it through with the person and trying to ask annoys them more so I only gain insight from talking to others who are willing to explain, but often they can't explain becuse it doesn't actually make sense, it's just everyone knows, don't they?! (The one friend who can explain is on the spectrum himself...)

Related to this is the way I try to take other's emotions into account, actually to a greater degree/in a different way than others. To give a blunt example, I act according to how upset someone is, not how upset I think they should be. So if someone appears to be 'overreacting' to something, I can usually tease out the real reason they're upset/figure it out from what else I know. So humans do kind of make sense to me, if I know all the angles, but a lot of things are explained by people deceiving themselves/protecting their inner self/cognitive dissonance caused by trying to cope in our messed up world. I do find it incredibly frustrating that others don't seem so bothered about 'understanding' and 'truth' which I seek above all else, albeit with cuddles and softly spoken for the painful bits. except when I rant online and sound like an out of touch martyr. Actually, I seem to be able to talk to someone and make suggestions/tease out their feelings, counsellor style, and people do actually seem to easily open up to me... but then freak out (?) and back off, or something.

I'm almost thinking maybe it's just groups/group behaviour/loyalty over truth, that I don't 'get', rather than an ASD. And that the spectrum is nowhere near as simple as that, with crossovers with other things eg. HSP's.

Sorry for the rather long message, quite wound up about all this atm and nowhere else to talk about it.

Hi all. I think this is me - I've been lurking and reading for the last six months or so. It would certainly make sense of my life so far. I think I am finally posting because for the last couple of years I have been getting "worse" (eek) in terms of coping with things that I have previously coped with. Anyway...not going to say much more now, but I may info-dump at some point because I'm quite about things at the moment.

I took the test (and yy to having questions about the questions!) and it came out as:

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 139 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 66 of 200

I can read most emotions and recognise a lot of social cues (apart from subtle ones). It's working out people's motivations for acting a certain way or predicting how they will react to things that I struggle with. I can tell if someone is pissed off with me 9 times out of 10, but it's not always clear why. If someone doesn't like me then I like to know why and I end up obsessing about it if there's no clear reason. I also struggle with social hierarchy in a lot of ways.

TheArchchancellorsHat (excellent name btw), I've also been getting worse for the last few years, since my coping mechanism of spending hours alone is no longer possible. I was told by an NHS psych nurse that difficulties relating to autism always improve over time, but this is not true. This a really good article explaining possible reasons why people might struggle more than they used to.

On a lighter note, we're planning a trip to Leicester in the next couple of days to see Richard III. I feel a bit mad planning a last minute day trip but it's not that far and I've driven there before so I'm about equal amounts excited and nervous. But I would still appreciate some luck!

Element I very much identify with the feeling and sensing an atmosphere or vibrations that things are awry. However if you tried to question it the NT,s would wonder what you were on about.

As a child I walked on eggshells to avoid peoples apparent mercurial moods. I still do really. I get a sense of fear if someone is grumpy. Affronted too! I think they should be "nicer". I enjoyed your post and hope you feel better?

Eau good luck and have a great time.

I'm another one who senses the atmosphere and responds to that. I can tell if someone's in a 'bad' mood, but not necessarily what sort of bad mood (eg hungry, tired, angry) and even if I know they're pissed off, I can't tell why without it being very obvious or them telling me. I usually assume it's something I've done, even though I don't know what (logically, if the bad mood wasn't aimed at me, they'd tell me what the matter is, right? But logic doesn't always work with NTs!) and I also get the sense of fear and affront.

You know, the more I read the more I realise my mum is most likely ASD. She definitely has "too much" empathy. I made a joke this week that it turns out that MIL does have a heart, but just when it relates to animals. That's OK with me, I can work with that. But it reminded me that very often in relation to other people my mum always seems to have almost too much heart. I find it really hard because DH doesn't seem to like her, almost specifically in this part, and I couldn't work out why, because I've always found the empathetic part of her to be something I very much admire. I don't understand why he has so little patience for it. She is also really devoted/almost obsessed with the new age spiritual movement, angels and crystals and healing and such and relates everything back to that in a somewhat exhausting manner for everybody else. I find it harder to relate to her than I used to, because I feel like often I am having to climb or dig through this layer of angel stuff to get to actually connecting with her. I suppose that for DH he didn't know her before the angel stuff so that is a barrier to him as well. But it's a shame because I think she is great and I want him to see it too.

YYY to not understanding motivations. I once pissed DH off because I assumed that his cold shoulder towards me was one thing and didn't ask and it turned out it was for something else and I should have asked and I don't like people being grumpy. I don't mind it so much if there's something I can do, but when I just have to wait I don't understand the point of it and it makes me feel really anxious and spacey.

Yesterday we took DS to the supermarket and he whined all the way around and DH made it into a long running issue and I was exhausted by it. I mentioned this to DH and he looked confused and said "Why? We haven't done anything?" I gestured towards DS and was just like "This!" He tends to find it almost funny at times whereas I find it really stressful. I don't like letting him lose out on stuff whereas DH almost seems to find it satisfying. It's not exactly that, he's not horrible - hard to describe. I have problems with a lot of "normal" parenting stuff which makes my parenting a bit off the wall. And then couple that with ADHD lack of attention and I think it's a bit chaotic at times. So it's good that DH has a firmer sense of right and wrong, but often I feel like he's escalating a situation by insisting whereas I'd try to set up a situation where DS can have a small win as well as experiencing the bigger consequence. And realised too late yesterday that I should have just done that, rather than waiting for permission.

Confrontation and conflict really takes energy out of me hugely as well. But positive interaction with others gives me energy and focus. Will go and read the link, I'm sure it will be interesting.

Good luck Eau Rouge :)

Buffy and PolterGoose Yes I know what you mean about rigid interpretations of behaviour. Don't these people ever question themselves, and realise they are more complex than that ergo everyone else probably is too? No wonder the world is in such a state!

Although it does kind of make sense in another way - people prefer things that make it simpler for themselves. So in interpersonal stuff (as oppose to psychologists studying stuff) people like to simplify others' behaviour, often giving it a negative interpretation, so they don't have to make any effort. Especialy if the thought processess involve changing their worldview - that's a huge effort. Eg. viewing someone as "merely attention seeking" or "a difficult child" rather than bothering to work out what's wrong or try to help.

Although all the tests seem to suggest I'm NT (I scord ASD: 66, NT: 151) I relate to so much of the other stuff said here... right down to digestive problems/aches (whn stressed, so a lot...) so I'm quite confused. Knowing my luck I'm on an obscure and hitherto undiscovered/undescribed offshoot of the spectrum. So just crap, in society's view.

Anyway this has made me think - do you think it would be possible to induce certain ASD traits in someone? I don't mean outward traits, necessarily, more internal things that would make someone suspect they were on the spectrum. For example, you could pre-arrange others to react to them in certain ways, so they felt confused and slightly at odds with everyone. Or, a more real world example, if someone has dysfunctional ways of coping/relating, someone close to them may start to feel they might be the one with the problem.

I'm basically wondering because if I don't have aspergers, there must be some reason why I'm experiencing certain things. For example, I can trace back my anxiety and depression to traumatic events and difficult times and right back to where I've picked up a warped view of the world as a child, and felt misundersood, hurt and alone. I can see how each step leads to the next, by influencing ways of reacting. However there's an initial question mark over what triggered it all - it could be something tiny, sort of ripple effect since then (speeded up by mental health professionals' involvement ). It also involves struggling to make friends at school in the first few years (was with same children from nursery aged 3 until yr6), and tending to have one best friend at a time, and later on a few close friends but not 'popular' - classic aspergers experience. However, children who are abused (I recall no serious abuse fwiw) or have other issues also get sort of left out by their peers/struggle. I did have a small but visible disability at the time. In addition, my best friend left nursery and I never saw him again, and then became 'friends' with a poisionous bully of a girl (I heard of her again years later, seems she didn't change...) who also left after a couple of years, so that could easily mess up/upset a child, and if parents and teachers are unsupportive it escalates...

So... wondering if other things could mimic the aspergers experience, really. Sorry if I'm hogging the thread, just wondering so many things!

from what I've read a person would need to experience severe neglect/trauma to exhibit something diagnosably autistic
Ah, but what about subtle things that are the reason so many women are undiagnosed as children? The feeling of being different, a sense of justice, sensitivity (so more easily traumatised), struggling to make friends, etc.

Being seen as a diffcult child, feeling repeatedly misunderstood and taught to hide your feelings, arguments at home... loosing your best friend in big scary nursery aged 3 and then getting targeted and bullied by you next 'best friend'... other siblings, their difficulties, home situation etc... surely they could affect a child and depending how it was dealt with the child [me, obvs] would likey struggle to make friends and grow up vulnerable to other influences in teen years (in my case, an explosive but not violent home situation). Add in difficulties holding down employment due to emotional sensitivity/by that time seriously depressed/open to abuse due to little choice over living arrangements/a crappy blaming mental health team/homelessness and you have an adult that may subtly appear to have an ASD but doesn't.

Or does.

Hmmmmm....

Night!

I agree PolterGoose.

But also worth saying - I have not yet been assessed, but I am pretty sure that I am ADD rather than ASD and yet I relate to a LOT which is said about ASD. Probably about 60% of the Aspiengirl page has me nodding along saying I strongly agree. The issues can be similar even if the cause is different. For example with ADD a lot of social elements can be present because the ADD person is less attentive to social cues - we also find them hard to understand but it's because we have never been able to notice any patterns rather than the patterns not making sense.

Look at ADD, and dyspraxia. I didn't know for a really long time that ADD and ADHD were different things - I just thought that ADHD was the newer/English name and ADD was an older/American name. It's not the case (although there is some truth in it - both variants go by ADHD now) - there is a hyperactive type and an inattentive type. I had a really different idea of what ADHD actually is and so it didn't even cross my mind for a long time.

The thing with situational MH problems is that they tend to improve steadily (if slowly) when the situation ends, support or not. Whereas an actual neurological disorder might improve slightly but mostly does not, no matter how much support and how many strategies you try to beat it.

It's like depression vs a stressful situation - depression can't be solved by positive thinking or a change of scenery.

I really liked your post, BTW, elements, about most people not bothering to understand other people. I have been thinking about it all morning and it's really strange to me, because I've always tried to understand people (I am fascinated by people and their motivations) so I didn't really consciously "get" that other people don't bother because it's not interesting or valuable to them. In fact that is just hard to get my head around full stop. How can it not be valuable??

PolterGoose - I'm not suggesting those things cause autism, but that they'd cause things like problems fitting in, which would in turn lead to not learning to socialise in the same way as other children, and problems with self perception/esteem.

Lots of people get into abusive relationships as adults, for example, and start to believe they're not worth any better/can't leave. So surely it's likely that a 3 yr old going through the same pattern (initially nice, then bulling/mocking/controlling) would be even more affected, especially if their background/family situation is fraught with difficulty and overstressed parents. (Oh, and that girl's mother told the teachers I was the bully, so that made the teachers dead sympathetic and helpful towards me )

Again, I'm not suggesting that would irrevocably mess up a child on it's own, but it builds a shaky foundation. Especially if part of that is the message to "be good, don't make a fuss" and learning to hide emotions - anything remotely off-key that happens after that (like the entire teenage years ) is amplified by not having the emotionals skills to deal with it, or feeling you have nowhere to turn for help/advice.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here it's just I'm pretty sure it's possible that things can happen to cause the feelings I've had, without there necessarily being underlying autism. I suppose I feel like a bit of a fraud - there's a message in my head saying "nah, you're just bad, you're trying to find an excuse" which takes the image of mental health professionals....... (they randomly/without assessment decided I was BPD aged 19... so I have been condemned and the message to go away, don't make a fuss, no-one cares, has been compounded...)

Should add, I'm learning not to give a flying f*ck what they think, though :)

YY element, I totally agree. But I stand by my point - if it's learned behaviour, it can be unlearned. Whereas if it's autism (or whatever) you can't just un-learn it. It's not a behaviour, it's an underlying cause.

You are absolutely right that separating out what is cause and what is effect is really difficult, though.