Live webchat with Sue Palmer, author of Toxic Childhood, Wed 17 March, 1-2pm

[GeraldineMumsnet]

We're very pleased to welcome Sue Palmer, author of Toxic Childhood and 21st Century Boys, for a webchat on Wed 17 March at 1pm. She's a timely guest given the MN campaign, Let Girls be Girls.

Sue is a writer and speaker on child development and education. After 15 years as a respected authority on literacy teaching, she published Toxic Childhood: How the Modern World is Damaging Our Children and What We Can Do About It. It helped to spark a national debate about the nature of contemporary childhood.

Since then she has published a handbook for parents on Detoxing Childhood, and 21st Century Boys: How Modern Life Can Drive Them off the Rails and How to Get Them Back on Track.

Sue regularly comments on childhood issues in the national media and London's Evening Standard regularly lists her among London's most influential figures in education (which gives her huge pleasure as she lives in Edinburgh).

The Scotsman has described her as one of the country's "new radical thinkers".

Hope you can join the discussion.

[Pitchounette]

Message withdrawn

[SuePalmer]

Zazizoma, it'll only blow over if/when enough people recognise it's a problem and take some action. At present schools are obliged to use ICT because Ofsted inspects them on it.

[cissycharlton]

I think you are right about computers. A school where my mum and dad were helping out, upon being given a large amount of funding for library books wanted to spend it on computers. My mum told them that was wrong and theuy relented. To some teachers computers equals clever equals good.

[mrsbean78]

Do you ever see a return to the old days? I have vivid memories of being allowed wander into the fields behind our house, chasing rabbits and frogs with other children from the area; building dens with crates and bin lids; digging up patches of the garden to bury 'treasure' etc. I just don't see it happening for my baby son. I am managing (for now - he is the grand old age of 3 months!) to keep him from the television but how realistic is it for him to have a childhood like mine, unsupervised and free, where the real takes precedence over the virtual?

[SuePalmer]

Pitchounette, I've worked from the vast body of research on 'attachment theory', and it's clear that in the first 2/3 years, one-on-one care is best. It's difficult to provide that in daycare settings, althoughit doesn't have to be mum who does it and I'm personally a great fan of child-minders. Obviously, children are all different and for some institutionalised childcare won't cause any damage (especially if there are lots of other benevolent influences). And I hate making people feel guilty -- but that isn't a decent excuse for ignoring the research.
At the moment our society doesn't value motherhood at all, but if it hadn't been for motherhood through the ages we wouldn't have made it this far!

[champagnesupernova]

Sorry
I am coming to this really late and haven't read the whole thread yet either ! But want to say that what I've read about you, Sue, is v inspiring and I love your post about since when did "parent" become a verb?!
That's how I feel too!
Looking forward to catching up on it.

[HelenMumsnet]

Thanks very much, Sue, for a very enjoyable webchat - and especially for staying on well past your allotted time!

[downbutnotout]

Thanks Sue - you made my first webchat great! Ds is waving!

[SuePalmer]

Thanks so much for asking me on! I've had a lovely time, and can't believe the hour went so quickly. There are a few answers I wrote earlier that I'll paste up before I log off. And I'll certainly keep coming back to Mumsnet and see what you're all up to -- you sound a pretty sane lot to me. If anyone has any burning issues they think I should include in my next book ('21st Century Girls: how the hand that rocks the cradle can change the world') I'd be really interested to hear about them. Thanks again!Sue

[BattyKoda]

Thank you Sue, have just bought Raising Boys and look forward to reading it!

[SuePalmer]

Snoringcat and LauraIngallswilder ? thanks so much for your kind comments. You?re right -- I didn?t mention Home Education in Toxic Childhood or 21st Century Boys, largely because I had so many things to say about the dire state of the education system at the moment that they tended to fill up the relevant chapters! Also, HE requires a very special sort of parent, who?s willing to put their child?s needs above almost everything else ? it does require enormous commitment and a remarkable level of detachment (being your child?s teacher is very different from being a mum or dad). But in ?Detoxing Childhood? (which is supposed to be more of a ?practical handbook for parents?) I do mention HE as a possible alternative to putting one?s child into an early-start, tests-targets-and-league-tables culture that?s really running out of steam.

[SuePalmer]

Oh Fayrazzled, the early start on formal learning breaks my heart too ? especially since I?ve now travelled widely in Scandinavian countries where children don?t start formal work till seven (and still do much better than us educationally). But if you don?t have a Montessori or Steiner school nearby the only alternative really is Home Education, which is an enormous commitment? and which could mean your son becomes isolated. If you home educate, you have to make sure there are plenty of other children in his life for social development.
I think at the moment the best thing you can do is make your feelings known to the school. Most teachers I know would agree with you wholeheartedly (they have to jump through government hoops to get their Ofsted ? and outstanding schools usually have very understanding heads).
And you could also join OpenEYE ([email protected] )

[cissycharlton]

Really interesting tho' she didn't answer my question. Perhaps she thought it was just a random moan (which it may well have been).

[SuePalmer]

Oh Fayrazzled, the early start on formal learning breaks my heart too ? especially since I?ve now travelled widely in Scandinavian countries where children don?t start formal work till seven (and still do much better than us educationally). But if you don?t have a Montessori or Steiner school nearby the only alternative really is Home Education, which is an enormous commitment? and which could mean your son becomes isolated. If you home educate, you have to make sure there are plenty of other children in his life for social development.
I think at the moment the best thing you can do is make your feelings known to the school. Most teachers I know would agree with you wholeheartedly (they have to jump through government hoops to get their Ofsted ? and outstanding schools usually have very understanding heads).
And you could also join OpenEYE ([email protected] )

[SuePalmer]

Ahundredtimes, honeyflower and isaidheyhoney?. There is some evidence that children in the UK are particularly ?unhappy? from UNICEF?s survey of childhood wellbeing. Out of 21 countries in the developed world our children came bottom. And, of course, our teenagers are always top of the European league for a variety of dysfunctional behaviour, as well as many mental health problems. This is why I wrote the books.

[Pitchounette]

Message withdrawn

[SuePalmer]

Riven, couldn?t agree more. Parents need to back off children?s play. But computer games, while fun, are not the same thing as the ?real play? you describe. I
A bit of electronic entertainment is fine, but if it becomes children?s default activity, they miss out on an awful lot of stuff that?s vital for all-round healthy development.
So, as you say, the thing is to strike a healthy balance (which will be different at different ages). Personally, I think children should have as little exposure to screen-based entertainment as possible in the first three years, then no more than a couple of hours a day till seven, then sensible negotiated amounts thereafter. And keep the screens out of their bedrooms!

[SuePalmer]

Hi Southeastastra -- I think playworkers are absolutely fantastic! Tim Gill was one of my main advisers on the play chapter in Toxic, and has become a good friend. I love his book ?No Fear: growing up in a risk-averse society? and draw on it extensively in ?21st Century Boys?. I now work quite a lot with playworkers and their conferences are definitely the best ones I get to go to!

[SuePalmer]

Hello Elliemental. I always hope my books will reassure parents as well as alert them to possible dangers. In many ways, they?re the books I wish I?d had when I was raising my daughter. Most people that read them say that they?re common sense ? I really have no wish at all to make people feel guilty or inadequate. IT TAKES A VILLAGE TO RAISE A CHILD, and at present parents aren?t getting much support at all from the rest of the villagers.

[SuePalmer]

Hi Henson ? I agree that this country has tried to provide childcare on the cheap. Basically, we don?t value the concept of ?care? much at all. It?s one of the things that makes me really furious.

[TheRationalist]

You mention the Open Eye campaign (a Steiner Waldorf initiative), may I ask what is your relationship with the Steiner movement?

Do you know anything about the pedagogy?

I note the majority of the people who signed the original Open Eye letter are involved with the Steiner Waldorf movment.

Another supporter Aric Sigman, who writes in a rather hysterical way (imo) about the supposed damaging effects of todays technology on child development is commissioned by the Ruskin Mill Educational Trust, an anthroposophical (Steiner Waldorf) organisation.

Aric Sigman and Ruskin Mill

[SuePalmer]

Final message before I go off and collapse into a heap. Please beware of Playfish (Google it). It's a mixture of social networking and gaming, aimed at children from the age of five. It's free to start off -- they make their money from selling quite cheap downloadable extras. They're already making a great deal of money in the States.
I think it's unethical to aim this stuff at such young children, because they need to learn to interact in real life with real friends, and to play in the real world before they start virtual gaming.
Children here have already heard of it and are getting involved, but this stuff goes right under the parental radar. And once Ipad technology gets cheaper, the kids'll want those too -- and with endless interconnectivity and endless sites like Playfish to encourage addiction, screens could easily become their lifetime default activity...

[restlessnative]

will you please answer The Rationalist's question.

in our opinion the language you use is anti-therapeutic and scare-mongering.

[SuePalmer]

Oh hell, all right one last post. I have no personal involvement with the Steiner movement at all. Absolutely none. I do however have a lot of sympathy with their attitudes to early childhood and have given talks at several Steiner schools. (On the other hand, I am President of Montessori AMI UK I was invited to take up the post despite having no background in Montessori teaching, and was delighted to do so because I have huge admiration for their early years practice too).
I'm not sponsored by any organisations at all. I've been totally freelance for the last 25 years and make a pretty modest living by writing and speaking, which helps finance my involvement in a variety of 'childhood campaigns', which I do for free.
Richard House contacted me when he read Toxic Childhood, and we've worked on a couple of campaigns together and are now good friends. He's a really nice man. But we've only met three times, and he's never tried to convert me to Steinerism!!!!