Live webchat with Sue Palmer, author of Toxic Childhood, Wed 17 March, 1-2pm

[GeraldineMumsnet]

We're very pleased to welcome Sue Palmer, author of Toxic Childhood and 21st Century Boys, for a webchat on Wed 17 March at 1pm. She's a timely guest given the MN campaign, Let Girls be Girls.

Sue is a writer and speaker on child development and education. After 15 years as a respected authority on literacy teaching, she published Toxic Childhood: How the Modern World is Damaging Our Children and What We Can Do About It. It helped to spark a national debate about the nature of contemporary childhood.

Since then she has published a handbook for parents on Detoxing Childhood, and 21st Century Boys: How Modern Life Can Drive Them off the Rails and How to Get Them Back on Track.

Sue regularly comments on childhood issues in the national media and London's Evening Standard regularly lists her among London's most influential figures in education (which gives her huge pleasure as she lives in Edinburgh).

The Scotsman has described her as one of the country's "new radical thinkers".

Hope you can join the discussion.

[Mrsdoasyouwouldbedoneby]

Thank you for your reply! I do think I will need to buy your book on 21c boys... At present I have a DS who is happy to march to the beat of his own drum, long may that continue.

Is it kind of let them do everything, they are people versus they are children-innocents- we must protect them at all costs? And the proceeding no-mans land leads to wreckage sometimes? i.e the balance? So people stick their heads in the sand and sing happy songs to make it all go away?

[SuePalmer]

As long as no one makes a fuss (because everyone individually is feeling powerless and/or scared of being labelled Mrs Mary Whitehouse) the stuff on the screens will continue to go down to the lowest possible denominator.
In Detoxing Childhood I provide all the websites/phone numbers to complain every time you see something that worries you. Just do it!
And join action groups like Mediawatch, which aren't half as stuffy as you think they are...

[SuePalmer]

Mrs Doasyouwouldbedoneby, I think that's exactly what it is. Indeed, it's the conclusion I reached in my introduction to Toxic Childhood four years ago. Since then things have got infinitely worse... So we have to stop singing the happy songs and look for good ways of using technology, rather than letting the lowest common denominator culture flourish.
Everyone thinks I'm some sort of technophobe, but actually I love it! And this sort of website is exactly the sort of thing that can turn the tide.

[Mrsdoasyouwouldbedoneby]

intrigued thank you!

[SuePalmer]

Hi to Clarissimo. I?ve met so many parents caught in a similar dilemma as you ? they don?t themselves subscribe to hyper-materialistic values but don?t know how to cope with the peer-pressure on their children. Media and market forces have infiltrated playground culture so children are constantly influenced by ?cool? messages that emphasise appearance, possessions, screen-based life-styles, and so on. The only way to combat this is for parents to get together (I think Mumsnet is a really good starting point!) and back each other up with the simple message that parents ? and hopefully other responsible adults in children?s lives ? love their kids and really care about their health and well-being. Marketers don?t ? they just want our money. And money is the bottom line in media too ? ratings and advertising are what keeps companies afloat.
I think the marketing bombardment of children is thoroughly unethical and should be fiercely regulated by government, but until it is parents have to support each other.
Having said that, your little boy?s problem does sound worrying to me and ? although I?m generally opposed to ?medicalising? problems ? I think if I were you I?d look for help in tackling this body-image problem before it gets any worse. The School Psychological Service might be able to offer some advice. Personally, I think any problems of this kind with children are best tackled through family therapy, as that takes the spotlight off the child.

[assumetheposition]

Sue, I haven't read any of your books (although I may do now) but have 2 boys. My 4 year old seems very typical - very physical, enjoys risk taking, very sharp and articulate but scatty. Often he is very excitable and difficult to wind down.

His pre-school seem very switched on and seem very willing to embrace his boyness.

However, going forward, I worry about how to help him. TV seems to be the only thing that he will do calmly and quietly and I must admit I do use it as a babysitter so I can get things done or see to my 1 year old.

I worry about it going forward as I have noticed it making him increasingly aggressive when I turn it off (which I do)

What strategies do you have for parenting boys when you do need them to be in the house? Do you think giving them responsibility/chores helps or makes them feel even more constrained?

I am trying to get him involved in organised sport (gym club / mini Rugby) in the hope that he will learn that you can be physical but have control at the same time. But wonder whether this is the right approach.

Not sure this rambling is a question at all really!

[SuePalmer]

Leningrad, one of the problems is that parents are so busy dealing with the issues that are relevant at their child's present age, that they don't see the problems looming in the future.
That's why I love the pinkstinks campaign that started up recently. The whole pink girly thing for tots doesn't seem too much of a problem when they're tots... but it's drawing girls into a commercialised objectified world that quite soon leads to a very sexualised image.

[SuePalmer]

Assumetheposition... I hate to sound as though I'm selling books, but 21st Century Boys deals with this problem at length. Yes, get him involved in 'helping' (even though it makes everything take twice as long) and perhaps try banding together with some other mums so you can take turns in taking a few boys down the park while others get on with chores etc.

[Mrsdoasyouwouldbedoneby]

I think I am going to HAVE to read the books now! I'l probably read them nodding my head in agreement! I have a tendency to erm, ignore parenting books to a certain extent because I don't want to get myself confused! I certainly agree that limiting or rather being in some control of that exposure is the key, but as Lenigrad mentions, it is easier when they are younger, harder once they reach teenage independence?

[paola1]

Hi Sue, I just met this morning with the headteacher of my 8year boy. He's causing troubles (overacting for anything, drawing graffitis, running all over the places). He is bright and get very good results. Educational Psychologist has been involved since Reception. He didn't have problem in nursery becasue was a smaller and much more controlled environment. He would have been much better off if he could have started school at 6 and not 4, and even better if he would have lived in the countryside until year 3. I find very difficult to reassure him that there is nothing wrong with him and we discuss different ways not to get involved in fights or more general trouble, but it seams always and after event strategy (he is very frustrated because get punished every day). Sorry I am new to the site and maybe not the right please to post this. Thanks

[Pitchounette]

Message withdrawn

[SuePalmer]

Argh! Please don't think of my books as 'parenting books'. They're supposed to be about life, the world, everything. I hate the way 'parent' has become a verb -- something we DO to children!
Unfortunately, bookshops can't imagine that a book about children is of 'general interest'. They have to go in the 'Pregnancy and Childcare' section, and the publishers therefore make you write in a certain way to get them there.
it's all part of the masculine version of the world, in which anything about children, families, care, play etc is seen as distinctly marginal 'women's interests'. It makes me want to spit!

[Mrsdoasyouwouldbedoneby]

oops apologies for that one!! I guess it was the marketing, as childcare, that put me off though, must be very frustrating (for you). Thank you for replying to me!

[SuePalmer]

Pitchounette, I'm becoming increasingly worried about the amount of time young children are now spending in front of interactive whiteboards in primary school and even nursery.
Most of them get more than enough time stuck in front of screens at home. Children need real life active learning (especially boys) and we should only be using computers with real discretion until they can read and write. I'd get them out of the schools till children are 8 or 9, and then limit their use. But this is, of course, directly against government policy. The first ICT target in the Early Years Foundation Stage is at 22 months...

[Chocolatelover]

so the whole disney princess thing is out? My daughter 4 yrs old has developed a mania for it...

[SuePalmer]

Hi Paola1. This is an increasingly frequent problem. I agree utterly that children need time to develop emotionally and socially before they start on formal schoolwork -- it can be damaging for all chldren, including the very bright ones (see Chapter 5 of 21st C Boys). If it were up to me I'd raise the school starting age to 7 and put in a proper play-based kindergarten stage from 3 to 7!
The only advice I can offer is to ask for a chat with your boy's teacher and see if you can work togethet on this.

[Pitchounette]

Message withdrawn

[zazizoma]

Hi Sue, great chat, do you have any insight into what is behind driving the ICT into all areas of the NC?

[SuePalmer]

Oh dear, Pichounette, two common problems there.
One, can understand the teachers' frustration. The children have to be self-sufficient in terms of wellies, clothing, etc. We need to look at how it's done in Denmark! It's no good rushing into things without thinking them through.
Two, the cool thing. This is my real worry at the moment. Commercial forces are convincing children that it's 'uncool' to play. That's why we've got to start addressing this issue asap. if we don't it can only get worse.
Suggest you (and maybe a couple of other parents who care about it) ask the school for a very friendly informal meeting to talk about how the problems can be addressed. With the summer coming, it should be much easier to get the kids out and active.

[BattyKoda]

Hi Sue, I have never read your books (I have to admit I hadn't even heard of them before mumsnet . I have two boys 4yo and 13mo, what makes 21st Century Boys a 'must read' for parents of boys? Also, why do boys especially need real life active learning?

[SuePalmer]

Hi Zazizoma. I think the ICT thing is just general over-excitement on behalf of the Big Boys who run the show. (Well, helped along by commercial pressures to buy 'products' rather than concentrate on the real-life process of educating children.)
Computers are utterly dazzling and politicians have been suitably dazzled. I can quite understand -- I was dazzled for years and wrote software and TV programmes until I suddenly realised that screen saturation was making things worse rather than better.

[zazizoma]

Thank you Sue, so do you think it will blow over?

[SuePalmer]

Battykoda, the first must-read for mums of boys is 'Raising Boys' by Steve Biddulph. He's been a boy himself, so he knows much more about it than me. 21st C Boys looks at boys' development from conception to teenage and the ill-effects that particular aspects of modern life can have at different stages. I suppose the reason I'd suggest you read it is that I found the research fascinating and wanted to pass on what I'd learned.