Webchat with Professor George Haycock, FSID scientific adviser, Tues 30 June, 1-2pm

[GeraldineMumsnet]

A little while ago, following new expert advice about co-sleeping and cot death, some of you asked if we could get someone on from the Foundation for the Study of Infant Deaths (FSID).

FSID scientific adviser Professor George Haycock has kindly agreed to come on to discuss the advice, so he'll be in Mumsnet Towers next Tuesday lunchtime at 1pm .

Please post your advance questions here. Obviously he may not be able to answer all of them, but we'll make sure he sees them.

Thanks
MNHQ

Thanks MNHQ for the fabulous and informative live event.

Thank you Professor Haycock. I am fascinated by the findings.

My extended family has been touched by SIDS and I try to read all available information in order to make informed decisions with my own children.

Partly because both babies in my immediate family died alone in their cots but mostly because of the reading I have done, I have chosen to co-sleep. I would find it hard to find anything in this thread to convince me otherwise.

My aunts also live with regret about having left their precious little ones alone in their cots. Their fear is palpable every time they see an infant sleeping.

Like many others here, I would love to see stats on infants who co-sleep purposefully in safe beds with healthy mothers.

Thank you also to well-informed, articulate MNers who really know their facts and pose such valid questions.

Thinking more about the Staph aureus theory - IIRC it causes mastitis in cows. Can anyone with beter knowledge of bugs then me say whether it can survive pasteurization of cows' milk?

Is a breastfeeding mother with mastitis putting her baby at risk? When I had mastitis recently, and was producing extraordinary quantities of pus in my milk, I was advised to keep breastfeeding my baby.

DD2 sleeping in the side-car cot we pushed the mattress across to meet ours then put a folded pillow and cushion down the back edge to keep it flush and stop any gaps.

I do the same as GreenMonkies, except I measured the gap and got a caravan factory to cut me a piece of high density foam to fit the gap and I put the sheet over it.

Plus I don't have a fancy side car cot. I took off the side of our standard cot and bunged the bottom of the cot to our bed base. Works fine...however I still struggle to get either child to sleep in it !!!

lol babieseverywhere - if I tried that I could just see me squeezed into the side cot and DD spreadeagled in the bed...

Pics on my profile now

It was a useful and informative event, thanks, mumsnet.

What didn't come across is how rare SIDS is these days - we talk of something being 'riskier' than something else, and it sounds scary.

Thanks largely to 'back to sleep', the figures have fallen massively in just a generation. Cot death is rare - I have just checked the FSID site and I see they continue to fall year on year in the UK. 2006 the rate was about one baby in every 2500. It's a terrible tragedy for the families affected, and we need more research to bring the number down even more...but I am unconvinced that 'banning' bed sharing that follows the rules of safe co-sleeping (in the way babies sleeping on their front was 'banned')would make a difference. I don't think the studies show this.

Er.....what I mean is, that if all bed sharing was banned, including the sort of bed sharing that follows the rules for safety, would the figures fall? I don't think the research shows that they would.

thanks for this chat MN could not take part but lots of interesting information and discussion

I am interested in finding out the different odds ratios for all the different behaviours. For example if breastfeeding protects against sids but exhaustion from sitting up out of bed all night with a baby means women formula feed - which is the biggest risk (if Im making sense).

If dummies interfere with breastfeeding (even anecdotally) - which is less risky - formula feeding or not using a dummy.

Obviously on top of all that you have the fact that exhaustion, not being able to establish breastfeeding, not breastfeeding can all impact on physical and mental health in other ways...

Am confusing myself now!!

Thank you professor.

Am I the only co-sleeper after reading this who is now not planning to co-sleep with baby no. 2? I am not used to interpreting scientific studies, but going on the professor's earlier posts, he seems to suggest that unsafe co-sleeping (bed sharing) has been controlled for as much as possible.

Also re the dummy use - I am still struggling to understand this one, but am thinking of introducing a dummy to baby no 2. It feels "wrong" as co-sleeping and not using a plastic pacifier feels natural, but the stats don't lie - do they? I take the point about us not knowing how many people co-sleep, but going on the studies quoted it would appear that from what we do know it is more of a risk, even if co-sleeping is done safely - or am I wrong?

goingnowherefast, I am far from convinced and will continue to co-sleep with my two children.

It seemed that 'safe co-sleeping practices' are not seperated in any of the studies he quoted and several studies went further and lumped in dangerous sofa sharing figures in with bed sharing figures which is stupid.

Plus until we know what percentage of the current UK population babies sleep in cots or co-sleep the figures don't make any sense.

If the figures for co-sleeping and cot sleeping in the UK were 50/50 then his figures (50% of deaths occurred in infants sleeping alone in cots, 39% in the parental bed and 11% were sofa sharing.) would mean co-sleeping is the safest option !!! (Not saying it is,just that one set of stats mean very little without the population figures.

And I wouldn't put any weight on a survey sponsored by MAM dummy manufactors which returns a result of dummies being good for babies

goingnowherefast, I was aware of the slightly increased risk due bedsharing before I had my first baby in 2006 and chose to do it anyway with that baby and again in 2008 with my second. I'd have got no sleep and been unable to function otherwise.

atm I am taking driving lessons, having avoided driving for most of my adult life because it scares me rigid. And quite reasonably too I think - why would I willingly engage in such a dangerous activity? But sometimes in everyday life we accept elevated risks so we can get on with the business of living.

I would like to send my thanks to George Haycock for giving detailed answers. Have not had time to read and digest but will do soon!

sorry were was the messages saying dont co-sleep

goingnowherefast I planned not to bedsahre with ds4.however, after him not sleeping anywhere unless attahced to me for several months I gave in and accepted the (to me) inevitable

It's great to have access to all the research and ProfHaycock is to be thanked for a spectacular thread, however babies vary and one has to make best with the situation presented.

I know BF wuld not have worked for me ahd I used a cot, and as he is milk intol I suspect the difference to BF is significant. There were also additional factors others do not share that made me certain that for us bedsahring was preferred (in brief 2 autistic ds's creepinga round at night throwing things randomly, possibly into a cot).

having said that, of course if soemthing were to happen to my ds4 I wuld never forgive myself and if things ahd been different I would have chosen to follow the bedside cot route

A really interesting thread, Prof George was a great guest.

Thanks to Cherrychoc and Greenmonkies for posting pics, I have been able to show DH so he can sort out dd's cot.

We will continue to co-sleep, like many have said, it is the only way we function and my dd is more settled that way which makes me believe its the right thing for us.

He says this:

"They also all control for other factors including parental smoking, socio-economic indices and in some cases breastfeeding as well.

In summary, all 8 of these found that bed sharing (as opposed to sofa sharing, which is a much higher risk) increased the risk of SIDS.

The difference was statistically significant in 6 of these studies; (1-3, 5, 7, 8) in the other two (4, 6) the risk did not reach conventional statistical significance (P

great thread
answered lots of questions which lots of more articulate MNers posted on my behalf

"Also re the dummy use - I am still struggling to understand this one, but am thinking of introducing a dummy to baby no 2. It feels "wrong" as co-sleeping and not using a plastic pacifier feels natural, but the stats don't lie - do they? "

goingnowhere there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Don't put baby#2 in an isolation chamber a cot, get a sidecar crib or cot and keep them close, and forget the dummy!