Marketing to women discussion - Tuesday 1pm

[carriemumsnet]

Hi all

We've been asked by a new specialist female marketing company www.prettylittlehead.co.uk to find out what women think of marketing that's targeted at women. By marketing they mean anything from radio/TV/ newspaper/magazine ads to direct marketing that comes through the door. We're not talking about marketing to children (that's a whole other subject) but more what brands you like and which you don't and why? What irritates you about the way companies market to you and which brands or products should be more aimed at women which currently seem completely focused on men. Do you think advertisers try and make you feel good or bad about yourself in order to flog their products to you? Who or what do you trust for advice on products ? (need we ask? ) There is of course no compulsion to take part in the debate/discussion, and as usual with online chats you can post your thoughts in advance, but anyone who joins in between 1pm Tues and 1pm Weds (to give all the night shift a chance) will be entered into this week's competition.

Hope to see you there

Have always hated the Goodman ads and even though they are cheap, would never be able to bring myself to buy any of their products because of their excrutiating advertising.

Am shocked by John Lewis as I swear by them.

Used to like the old Boddingtons ads.

ooh Lelli Kelly's , dd thinks they're cr*p !! The power of maternal suggestion overriding supercutesy ad

Hi AitchTwoOh - perfectly valid question on the money front. Truth is, no there's no money changing hands on this. PLH suggested it and we thought it would be an interesting debate. We also hope that it might lead to money changing hands at a future date

Was in shoe shop last week..father buying shoes for his dd.....she starts wailing & throwing a fit cos she wants lelli kelly shoes....goes on for nearly half an hour...he trying to get her a 'sensible' pair of shoes & some sandles..she (4ish) refusing to try any on....
Anyhow......he left with 3 pairs of lelli kelly shoes....& she was thrilled and smiley cos she got some plastic makeup icecream thing that she'd seen on telly...

I would have left the shop

no discussion

gone

who is in charge fgs?

oh i think the dd definately was

but then those LK ads are aimed at children not women .... 3 pairs - more fool that man - remember the saying about a fool and his money

well that's what i thought, carrie. thanks.

this info will be worth something to them, though, so if it doesn't lead to a financial benefit for MNHQ in the future they'll have used their prettylittleheads to their considerable advantage. market research from an interesting demographic for no outlay - it's a good plan on their part... a man probably thought of it.

anyway, i'm off, i get paid for my opinions on this sort of thing, don't give it away for free...la, la, la, my sinks need shining.

mind you it is such a random stream of consciousness I think it would take a good while to extrapolate a conclusion ! though Carrie , I had assumed there was at least something in it for MN, lets hope for the future.

nah, it's good stuff.

'we held a discussion group with 50 women of the x,y,z demographic (from MN's own poll) and here are some of the things they said... blah blah, barry scott, fucking nutrisse not really meaning nourish in french said to DAVINA'S FRENCH MOTHER... etc etc.

this applies to you, mr company bastard, because these are your customers etc etc. thanks for watching our presentation.'

i think 'marketing to women' is far too broad. i'd say a single, 20-something man has more in common with a single, 20-something woman than a 40 year-old mother of 3 has with an 18 year-old woman.

imo, the marketing that works is a little more targeted. i doubt most mumsnetters are 'prettylittlehead' audience, judging by the name, but that doesn't mean there isn't a big market out there for them.

i think people are fairly marketing literate these days and spot the 'let's tap into your fears/ aspirations' type truths. i think the best ads are either a) just creatively brill so everyone (male/ female/ kids) likes them or b) informative of why something is so good.

personally i find 'reality ads' very patronising (hate the Dove stuff tbh). i chuck away virtually all direct mail without looking at it (especially if it's in an envelope).

Creative and humourous is the way to go, i.e. car adds or the Guinness one (not aimed at women I know but...). I don't want to be patronised by a woman wearing cotton traders and looking like Lynette from Desperate Housewives who also has two kids aged about 7 and 10 from the Boden catelogue.

i can't remember what iots for - so it probably didn't do it's job - but i like the mum having a tantrum in the supermarket. and the amazing gene kelly breakdancing one.

i do buy dove - i didn't believe the advertising at all, but i tried some firming body wash at my ex mum in laws at the weekend and went straight out to buy some. - and i do apprecaite that they use almost normal women in their advertising - and old women and un-white women. they seem vaguely ethical becasue of this.

I don't think this is aimed at mums specifically, but maybe working women...

Scenario:

6.00pm get home from work, cook tea for dh & ds
6.30pm eat tea
7.00pm settle ds to bed
7.10pm phone rings

conversation:

-Hello Madam, your postcode has been specially selected for a rare opportunity to have a reduced price kitchen. It just has to be featured in our magazine as a show kitchen...

-May I ask where you got my postcode from? Cos the Royal Mail sure as heck don't have it! Neither does my car insurance/house insurance/bank recognise it. It's a new house on a new estate. Oh, and by the way, my house, being new, has a new kitchen! I think you need to check your database a bit more carefully, and ensure you remove my ex-directory number... Goodbye

-Stunned silence

7.12pm put the phone down.

This happened on a horrifically regular basis, either with kitchens, windows, and best of all, conservatories. (I live in a coach house - flat above garages... )

It has gotten better since we complained to BT and got our number removed from their database...

ooh no park you need to do what my friend did, invite the conservatory people round - all at the same time if poss to her 3rd floor FLAT!!

I have a particular loathing for fake conversation adverts, as if all we have to talk about with our friends is how hard our shit is, what we eat for breakfast and this new yoghurt that stops you looking so fat.

Have some respect, we all know we don't talk like this!

I like more real life adverts, dove in particular, or ones where they don't speak to you as if you are a complete moron and have a more knowing sense of not taking themselves seriously as an advert (again, fern's ad's for ryvita things, for example)

Ooh, carrying on from some of the posts about charity, I had a phone call from NSPCC...

Scared the sh*t out of me cos I thought someone had reported ds's tantrums (I don't like you, I want..., decibel level helped along by dh and the dog joining in and thin walls to next door)

But it was an elderly guy asking whether I'd heard of the NSPCC (yeah seen it on telly), was I aware that x children are abused and die in their own homes (seen something on telly), did you know that £x can help save x children from abuse (um, have no money, really sorry, appreciate the work you do etc)

Made me feel really guilty, that I couldn't give him anything.

At least on the tv you can switch the channel (the one with Miles the baby always makes me teary) and you can put the post in the bin (oops, shredder).

Lol crunchie, yes must try that one!

Actually, I was on jury service a couple of years ago, and during a break, the subject of telephone marketing came up. One guy said his wife had a brilliant way of getting rid of them...

Picks phone up,

-Hello, xx from xx window/cladding/conservatory company

Wife encourages them to launch into their spiel, then once they get going, she quietly puts the phone on the table, and then goes back to what she was doing before. Pops back every 5 mins or so,

-Eh? I missed that. Can you go over it again please?

Puts phone back on the table, then goes back to what she was doing.

After 3 or 4 goes of this, the marketing company gives up, and generally doesn't phone back.

Brilliant!

yes, that is brilliant! take the piss out of someone in a shit job, fantastic! [yawn]

Have only skimmed thread so might be repeating what's already been said:

• hate being patronised
• hate the assumption that all domestic & housekeeping issues=woman's responsibility and major interest
• hate the sneering all women love shoes and chocolate type of marketing
• hate the link between food and treating yourself/indulgence (food issues in the past mean I'm very wary of any attempt to link food with an emotional experience. Chocolate isn't love and love isn't chocolate)
• hate the unrealistic ideals being presented, whether that's enormous middle class houses in the Picture loan advert or 20 year old models advertising skin care products aimed at women in their thirties
• hate greenwashing - oil companies in particular, but Nescafe's new fairtrade coffee annoys me too
• hate the whole consumerist idea that what you buy says something about you as a person (Because I'm worth it L'Oreal? Actually I'm a unique human being and I'm worth a damn sight more than anything you can put in your f*cking hair dye)

Rant over.

Detest charity adverts/unk mail that tries to make me feel guilty -dh ot targete by prostate cancer charity with 3 lettersin the 6 months since his dad died of it so i wrote back a realy shitty response.

Can't honestly say a TV/print advert has ever made me want to buy anything - word of mouth, web recomendatiuons are far more effective. And product placement in editorial pieces, i have quite often gone and bough someting after reading a review of it - like my robomop/e-cloths, or books, or clothes from fashion articles.

I am a sucker for BOGOF or money off - only on items I would buy anyway, but I will be brand switched by savings. And I only ever buy things like dh's shirts when i get catalogues with money off.

Brands I trust- Lakeland, John Lewis, Waitrose, White company, Ikea - probably because of their lack of advertising - you just know where you are with them and they don't try to patronise me.

I think it's cruel to advertise chocolate bars with Coronation St, as I have to immediately raid the fridge/cupboards because I want some when I see the ads.
Loved the old Weetabix advert with the dancing Weetabix's as pirates - v. entertaining.
Get annoyed as said earlier by charities wasting money on pens and newsletters.
Liked the scary Metz ad with the Judder man, and John West ad with the "bear".
Recently had a brochure from France telling me to buy their vitamins and products to "help me get back in shape and look good" - implying I was fat and ugly, so should buy their stuff?? Have no idea how they got my address etc, but was very insulted by it - wasn't worth the stamp to tell them though.
I trust Mumsnet and "another similar website" for advice above everything else.
I trust George as a brand, but not Mothercare - friend had Mothercare pushchair that broke, I bought kid's shorts that the dye ran on.
Don't trust Weightwatchers/cereal bar ads etc, as the products are full of sugar and they exploit you by saying things are low fat.
Car ads should be aimed more at women - show people strapping in screaming toddlers easily or how big the boot is for pushchairs/shopping etc. All sports ads are aimed at men.
Also hate anything that asks you for personal details such as marital status, income, partner's details, children's etc when you reply to an ad - I won't respond to ads, or buy from anywhere like that, it's none of their business!
I do telemarketing, and have trouble with the idea of different freebies to tempt women to bite, in the businesses I contact eg, free game of golf for men would be no good for women if their nearest course doesn't allow women. Similarly, men would probably not go for say, a beauty salon voucher, as it is stereotyped that salons are full of women etc.
We have to think of unisex items that won't offend anyone e.g. free packets of biscuits, promotional giveaways etc.
Sanitary ads should NOT have loud songs in them - had to stop my 5 yr old singing the tune for a certain one. I think it's naff anyway!! We have to buy something - keep the advert on the pack, not in the ad breaks!
Most women haven't got time to sit reading mags or watching telly anyway, especially early evening, so what's the point of adverts if no one sees them? I ignore most banner ads now as well - if they flash constantly at me, I will leave a website as it is annoying.
Rant over....

Hi all

Just thought I'd feedback that this discussion plus the survey we ran a while back were featured in Marketing magazine in October. There's a link to the articles (one teaser article on front page, on bigger one in the middle) but unfortunately you have to register to be able to read it - it doesn't take long but is obviously a bit of a bore. But if anyone's interested it's a great article with some good quotes from Mumsnetters.

You can find it (and then register) here
www.brandrepublic.com/InDepth/Features/756036/Women-Thoroughly-modern-mothers/