Webchat about bereavement with grief psychotherapist Julia Samuel, Thursday 9 March, 1-2pm

[RachelMumsnet]

Julia Samuel is a grief psychotherapist who has spent the last twenty-five years working with bereaved families, both in private practice and with the NHS at St Mary's Paddington where she pioneered the role of maternity and paediatric counsellor. She is Founder Patron of Child Bereavement UK, where she continues to play a central role. She is joining us on Thursday, 1-2pm to offer advice and answer your questions.

Julia’s first book Grief Works presents a series of deeply moving case studies of real people's stories of loss, and how they survived. Alongside the case studies, Julia offers brilliantly accessible and practical advice, for those who have suffered loss and for those who feel awkward and uncertain around death, and feel unable to talk honestly with family and friends.

Julia will be answering questions and offering advice on Thursday 9 March, 1-2pm. If you’re unable to join us on the day Do post up questions for her in advance.

@Sassy83

My son died four years ago and I still miss so very much. I talk about him most of the time. I can't seem to move on and I'm counting down the days until I can be with him again and I feel guilty because I always blame myself for his disabilities through birth and blame myself because he died with sepsis and I didn't know the symptoms even though the gp diagnosed a chest infection.

Hello Sassy83 I am so sorry that your son died, and of course you miss him so much, and talk about him most of the time. I think the idea of 'moving on' is outdated, what we understand now is that we need to face the reality of the loss, and also remember and find a way of continuing the relationship (although radically altered) with the person who has died. So finding concrete ways of expressing that through memories, talking making memory books or boxes.
Guilt is the most painful companion of grief, and mother's in particular feel guilty, because they feel physically so responsible for their child, but remember there can be a conflict between feeling guilt in your heart, and knowing in your head that preventing his disabilities was not in your gift. Let both sides of that information sit side by side in you.
I have written stories in the book, that resonate with you, and also quite a lot about the process of grieving and guilt, which I think you would find helpful.

@Sittinginthesun

I am so pleased that you are coming to Mumsnet. I read the article in Guardian Family this weekend, and was planning to have a look for your book. I have actually spent the day thinking about it, and had just popped the article in my handbag to read again tomorrow when I saw this thread!

I have worked with bereaved clients for many years and, although I have never had formal training in bereavement counselling, so much of what you say is what I see day after day at work.

I have found myself pulled towards this area, and am seriously thinking about focussing on this.

So my question: how can I move into counselling? Is it degree level stuff?

At the very least, I would love to train enough to support this area of my job. I am often the first person who is phoned when someone dies, and am with them for many months afterwards, and really think I could develop my skills here.

Thank you.

Hello Sittinginthesun I am so glad you liked the Guardian article and are thinking of going into counselling! You absolutely do not need a degree, I think the best way to start is through volunteering with organisations like Cruse or Compassionate Friends. They will train you, support you and give you clients, and then if you find you really love it, then think about doing a formal training that costs money. Good luck with it.

@alltheworld

Thought of a concrete question. Please could you talk about guilt and grief. It seems that guilt is a common factor in many bereavements. In my own case I wanted to work out what I was really guilty of and what was irrational guilt. A lot of people said, you couldn't have known, but I think I could or you did your best, and I don't think I did.

alltheworld I have answered that in the reply above. I hope. It is complicated. It is also about self compassion and recognising that what are the limits of your capacity, even if you are the mother, there are many things about being a parent that are way beyond our control, however much we'd like them to be in our control.

Thank you for the responses Julia, really interesting reading. I've just had a look at your website and the pillars make so much sense. I've been having a lot of internal arguments regarding accepting invitations so it's really helpful to read the limits pillar and how you don't need to justify yourself.

@BluebellsareBlue

My DM is dying. Stage 4 lung and bone cancer. I haven't been bereaved yet but I'm terrified of losing her and all I can think of is the black, bleak life in front of me... if I'm strong enough to live without her , I really don't want to. I'm in pain and despair now, knowing she is ill, knowing she is in pain (not chronic at the moment) but I save my tears for when I'm alone and she only sees my smile (which is getting harder to paste on), if this is what I am like now I cannot imagine how I will EVER cope when she is gone, will I?

Hello Bluebellsareblue it is so hard, loving your mum so much and knowing she is dying. Grief starts at the point of diagnosis, so you have started grieving already. I hope you have found a way of talking to your mum about this, from her perspective as well as your own. You can't 'protect' her from your sadness, and actually you will both be much better supported if you are honest with each other about how you feel. My big shout is whilst she is dying do all you can to ensure you don't have regrets, and if you don't your process of grieving will be easier, that isn't the right word, but I can't think of a better one. There is a story of Cheryl in my book, which mirrors yours. And yes I think if you allow yourself to grieve and cry and feel the pain, and ways of supporting yourself through friends and family you will cope.

@fluffygreenmonsterhoody

💐 Bluebells My question is a bit more removed. My DM died 15 years ago and I now have a 5yo DS. I talk openly about 'Grandma May' and he'll sometimes ask questions about her, eg favourite food etc. However, he's never once asked where she is! I'm not sure how, when or if to broach this, have let him lead the discussions so far and it seems to not have crossed his mind. He doesn't have any concept of death at all and I'm not sure where or if to start. Any advice gratefully received, thank you.

Hello Fluffygreenmonsterhoody that's a good question. My view and that of Child Bereavement UK www.childbereavement.org.uk is that children need as much information as adults, as much truth as adults, in age appropriate language. What children don't know they make up, and what they make up is more frightening than the truth, whatever the truth is. So it would be helpful to say to your son that his grandmother has died. We have a whole section on CBUK website (above) about talking to young children about death.

@chopchopchop

I'd also really appreciate some pointers about complex grief. My mother died a couple of years ago, but we had a difficult relationship and weren't that close (I didn't live with her as a child). All sorts of rogue emotions are now coming to the surface and I'm not sure how to deal with them.

Hello chopchopchop complicated grief is complicated! You are grieving both for the mother you actually had as well as the mother you wish you had - and now there is no more opportunity to go back and make what was wrong better, maybe before, unconsciously you hoped that it would improve. I think journaling, writing what you are feeling, everything, not necessarily in good english, is a really good way of unravelling and expressing complicated often conflicted feelings. Also take lots of exercise, it sits in your body, and exercise helps release it.

@ssd

I'm not able to see the webchat on Thursday as I'm working, but I'd really appreciate advice with this., I've struggled for 4 years with this.

When mum died, my siblings left everything to me. I cleared her house alone. I'd cared for mum alone for years and was devastated when she died, but they carried on as normal and forgot me. I'm the youngest by far, with young kids.

I cant get over their lack of care, for me or mum.

Hope do I come to terms with this? Just accepting it isnt working, nor is telling me we all grieve in different ways. They didn't grieve, they told me that.

I'd really appreciate any advice. Thanks

Hello ssd I can see how the circumstances of your mother's death, with no support or help from your siblings, has haunted you since, and it feels like blocked you in some ways from grieving her death - and it is complicated, as you say you can't accept your siblings behaviour and in some ways if you don't find a way of living with it, and focussing on your mother's loss and relationship for yourself, it is doing you harm. Have a look at my website www.griefworks.co.uk 8 pillars of strength, there are lots of pointers there which I think will help you find ways of expressing your grief, and supporting yourself through it.

@ssd

I'm sorry, if this webchat is more involving child bereavement then my questions arent relevant, sorry if I've read it wrong.

ssd not your question wasn't wrong at all. I hope my answer helps you even a little bit.

@EsmesBees

Similar to cheersbye, I would appreciate your thoughts on what it means to grieve when you have a young family, job, other caring responsibilities etc. I sometimes struggle to find the time to go to the loo, let alone to process the horror and pain of loosing my mum to a very slow and debilitating disease last summer. On the surface, I'm doing fine, inside I find the pain overwhelming but can't let it out.

EsmesBees gosh I can understand you are having a really hard time at the moment, I think my answer to cheersbye would be the one for you too. Really my point is to be kind to yourself and give yourself time to take care of yourself - actively.

@lolapops1

Whats the best way to help a child to grieve? Child likes to talk a lot and often asks questions,not always sure how to answer and what to say.

Hello lolapops1 we often talk about letting children grieve by allowing them to feel sad and talk about the person who has died, and then let them be normal children playing, just like jumping in and out of puddles. There are wonderful activity books on www.childbereavement.org.uk website which you can sit down and do with your child, and answer the questions truthfully. Honesty is the best policy because if you tell them the truth children will trust you.

@Missbobbins

Similar to a post above, I lost my father when I was 17, and my darling mum died 3 years ago. I feel so alone and worry so much about my kids going through the pain that I feel so keenly every day. How do I deal with having no parents and remove the guilt i feel about my both my parents and my children.

Hello Missbobbins gosh your father died when you were too young didn't he, and it sounds like your mother's death put you in touch with the death of your dad, which sounds very painful, and of course puts you in touch with your own mortality. Death really lets us know, in a way we'd prefer to deny, that we too are going to die. I think what helps the most is finding ways of expressing your grief, ideally with friends, and people you feel close to - when love is lost it is the love of others that helps us through. If that doesn't work I would go and see a counsellor through your GP or the voluntary organisations like Cruse. My website under what helps www.griefworks.co.uk has lots of guidance too.

@Hopezibah

Would be interested to hear about how grief related to suicide differs from other forms of grief. Struggled with grief for over 15 years now and am wondering if the element of it being suicide could be a factor in how the grief manifests and guilt feelings around it too (was eventually found to be 'death by misadventure' rather than suicide but had to wait so long for that verdict that initial grief felt different)

Hello Hopezibah death by suicide is extremely complicated, it often is talked about as grief with 'the volume turned up' so everything we ordinarily feel in grief is intensified with suicide. all the feelings of loss, pain, anger and guilt are also intensified. And I can see that getting a verdict so late would have been confusing rather than clarifying. I am so sorry you had to go through this.

@3littlebadgers

Hi, thank you for talking about grief, for those of us living with it it can seem like no one talks about it enough.

On this coming Sunday my little girl should have been turning two.
Some days I seem to be doing well almost resembling some new form of normal and then others I seem to sabotage myself.

I go to sleep desperate to see her in my dreams, and whenever I see a child of a similar age I can't help but wonder what she would have been like, what our family would have been like. It is like I am torturing myself.

Why do I do it? I know the sensible thing would be to just not look. I know that child is not my daughter, that she may have been bigger/smaller, darker/fairer etc and yet I always look and send myself spiralling down. I know I am not alone in this a few other bereaved mums I have spoken to do the same but why?

Thank you

Hello 3littlebadgers I am so sorry that your little daughter died. And I am glad to hear that in some ways you are finding a new and changed form of normal. I think the draw to look at children of the same age, is because psychologically the key task of mourning is facing the reality of the loss, and on so many levels you don't want it to be true - so you keep looking for her in your dreams or in the street, and feel the pain and shock every time of realising it isn't her. This is, as you say common, and over time it does lessen, but there can always be triggers to it, even many years on, so in a way the grieving is never over but finding ways of supporting yourself when you feel it is what makes the difference.

@IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt

My mum comitted suicide over thirty years ago. Her death was preceded by the suicide of two other family members on the same side of the family, one adult and one teenager. I've told my adult children that my mum comitted suicide, in a very brief way. I've never been able to say more to them about her or to mention the other deaths.

Should I try to say more? I sometimes think that it would help them to understand me and how can I can be a little better. But then it's my stuff not theirs?

Hello IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt and I'm so sorry that your mother died by suicide all those years age. I think it is important that you tell your children the full story, they will have sensed there is other unsaid things, and will wonder about that - and it may disturb them - telling them the truth however hard it is is better than their imagination. You could tell them whilst going for a walk, it often help to walk and talk, and let them ask questions, let them see you sad. You don't need to protect them from this, and it isn't just your stuff, but it's part of your whole family system. Secrets are often toxic down the generations, truth is cleaner and easier to deal with.

Thank you Julia

@Oogle

I lost my Grandad a year ago and if I let myself think about him, it takes my breath away. I feel as if I've been punched in the stomach and I can't stop the tears. I want him back. I miss him so very much. He was more of a Dad to me and I feel guilty for not visiting as often in his last few weeks - I knew he was ill but I didn't think he'd die so soon. I coped well just after his death. I wrote and read his eulogy at the funeral. Inside I'm crumbling.

How can I move on from losing him? How can I get to the point of enjoying looking at photos and thinking about him without it hurting? I try to block out my memories of him and then I'm scared that I won't be able to remember him in the future if I do that now, but it hurts so much to think of him.

I'm also so very scared of losing anyone else and I don't know how to stop the fear.

Hello Oogle I can hear how very painful the death of your grandfather was and how much you miss him. I'm afraid pain is the agent of change, and it is by allowing ourselves to feel the pain of grief that we begin to heal. And yes it hits us in our bodies, often like a punch. so you need to do lots of things psychologically to express the your pain and physically to support your system. Grief feels like fear too, and lets you know in a way you can't not know that we die, it is part of the grieving process. If you read my book you will see how people allowed themselves to feel the pain, and survived and actually found a way of living loving and trusting in life again.

@KittyandTeal

I won't be around as I'm working but this is at a point where I am hitting the 1 year anniversary of loosing my son at 14 weeks pregnant. We lost our dd2 at 22 weeks to trisomy 18, I saw a specialist counsellor and grieved for her properly, I feel connected to her.

Almost a year later I lost my ds to a mmc after lots of positive scans and clear tests. It was a huge shock. As a result I had my bipolar diagnosis changed to bpd and added complex ptsd to it.

I have not grieved for him properly. The specialist counsellor I saw was in a different role and I now find myself floundering, coping but not grieving. I have flashbacks but I've lived with ptsd for so long (from childhood trauma) that I know how to cope.

I guess my question is how do you move through complex ptsd and start grieving? I want to feel connected to my ds in the same way I do to dd2.

Hello KittyandTeal I am so sorry to hear of your multiple sudden and unexpected losses. It certainly sounds like you are suffering from PTSD and that will block your natural grieving process until you see a specialist therapist you can work through the trauma with you. I'd hope your GP could help you find one. If not go to www.childberaveavement.org.uk and they might have a list of specialist therapists. A man called David Trickey has written a good leaflet on PTSD on that website which would be good to look at.

Just sneaking in very quickly just in case you have time for a last minute question...

I've got incurable cancer. I'm undergoing treatment at the moment and I could be around for years, but eventually the treatments will stop working.

My biggest fear is the effect on my family. I'm single and childless so it's my parents and sister that I'm worried about. Is there anything at all I can do now or in the future to make their grief any easier?

@PrancingQueen

I lost my dear mum to cancer last September. Her death was horrible as she was in pain and unable to communicate.

I feel stuck and that I've not even started to grieve yet - I haven't even visited her grave since she was buried. I'm supposed to be sorting her house but procrastinate because that's where she died.

I'm a lone parent to a 4 year old and have been on ADs since I moved in to look after her.
Are they stopping me grieving? I feel that I may fall apart if I'm not taking them. I can't do that because I have a job and my child to look after.

Hello PracingQueen I am so sorry about the death of your mother, and that it was such a horrible and painful death. As hard as it has been in the last 6 months, it is early days with grief. My suggestion would be to stay on the AD's for now, but also give yourself time to focus and remember your mum, there are lots of ways shown in my book, and website www.griefworks.co.uk but also give yourself time for treats and distraction from your grief. I know it is hard with work and your child, but if you make it a priority you will be able to make the decision and then the discipline to do it. You could also seek counselling?

Because of the huge number of questions for Julia, she has kindly agreed to stay with us until 3pm when she has to rush off to see a client. We can't take any more questions at this stage - and she will try hardest to get through as many as possible of those that have been posted up before 3pm.

@JuanPotatoTwo

I'm sorry for everyone on this thread's losses, so much sadness out there.

I lost my dh on 27 February - so 8 days ago. We had been married exactly one month short of 24 years. He had been ill for a very long time with renal failure and added complications (some of that time spent at St Mary's Paddington actually) - in fact, he had been much iller (we thought) on many occasions than this last time. We thought he had flu for the last week, and since he'd had a flu jab we weren't overly worried. I never had the slightest inkling that, after so many years, this would be the end. He was so strong and optimistic and positive and courageous and loved us all so much. I just can't accept he's gone. I just can't. I'm trying to be strong for our 4 dc (three of whom are adults - youngest is 12) but I feel broken.

Have had some lovely support from friends and from a thread on here. I know it's very early days. I know I have to let time pass. I know I have to go on. What I don't know is how.

Hello JuanPotatoTwo I am so sorry to hear of the sudden and unexpected death of your beloved husband, and after such a long marriage. As you say it is early days, and you couldn't begin to know how when you are in so much shock. At the beginning I think the main thing is to keep your skylines of time short, so focus on the morning, what helps you, what can get your through, and then the next few hours. If you project into the future you will drive yourself mad. The friendship and connection with your friends and family is the single most important thing that will help you find the how - the love of others - and you can show your children how sad and upset you are, because if you model to them that it's ok to be sad, they learn and do it themselves - which is what they need to do.

@klassy

My question would be, do people ever really get over grief? How do you do it? Is hypnosis a good idea?

Hello Klassy I think in some ways we don't ever 'get over grief' we find a way of living and loving again, but I think we often revisit and feel the loss of the person we loved, and they stay with us. There is an image in my book that represents that life grows around the hole of loss, but it never goes. Grieving takes courage and time and you need support to allow yourself to feel the pain of your loss. I think hypnosis can be really good for many things, but sadly I don't think it helps with grief, there aren't ways of shortcutting the process, we have to let it run through our system. I wish I could give you a magic answer. I think my book would help you understand the process better.

@liger

I lost my daughter at 24 weeks pregnant, she had trisomy 21 and a hole in her heart. She was very much wanted but after much soul searching we felt the world wasn't good enough for her uniqueness. I have found being part of the decision to lose her hard to come to terms with even 11 years on. I can rationalise it and be forgiving of myself but my heart still hurts. When the season of her birth come around I find a deep cloak of pain and melancholy comes over me. Even just the way the light falls and the air feels can bring me to tears. I feel 11 years on this should be easing. In subsequent years I have lost my father and feel much more at peace with his passing. Of course losing the hope of a child is different to the expected loss of a parent who has been unwell for some time. But it has made me question whether I am carrying some trauma from my daughters loss that I should seek help with. I'm lost with what direction to take and would welcome guidance.

Hello liger, I am so sorry to hear about the death of your 24 week daughter and to some extent I think, as I've said before, the loss of a child is the kind of loss we don't 'get over' because we are dreaming both for them and the dream of the family and life we wanted. It might be an idea to have an assessment session with a counsellor to see if there is some trauma that hasn't been processed. You could do that through your GP. There is also ARC which could offer support and information.

@BellaZ

I lost my 3 year old daughter last month very suddenly. Despite the confusing feelings of grief, I felt an instant compulsion to have another baby. Prior to losing my little girl, my family was complete, everything was happy and I had no desire for another child. This strong feeling came as a shock to me and I'm scared of the chaos that this decision could have on my husband and older child. Should we just go with it and try to find some happiness? What are the potential affects of pregnancy after loss?

Hello BellaZ I am so sorry to hear of the death of your 3 year old daughter, how devastating. It is a biological instinctive response to want to have another child, and one I see all the time. I absolutely wouldn't say grieve first have another child later, but I would say two things : one if you get pregnant three months after the death of your daughter, your new child will be born on the anniversary of your daughter's death. Two it is hard psychologically grieving the death of a child, whilst bonding and being pregnant with a new child - and there is higher rather of post natal depression in these pregnancies. So be aware of that, and support yourself to do what is best for you and your family, only you can really know what the right decision is.