MNHQ here: webchat with MPs Jess Phillips and Flick Drummond

[BojanaMumsnet]

Hello,

We’re pleased to announce a webchat with Jess Phillips MP and Flick Drummond MP, co-chairs of the All-Party Parliamentary Group (APPG) on Women and Work, on Monday 23 January at 2pm.

Monday sees the release of the APPG’s first annual report, which explores the broad theme of ‘women returners.’ It has considered ‘a range of diverse issues which impact on the ability of women to return to the workplace, particularly after taking maternity leave or fulfilling caring responsibilities.’

Jess Phillips is the Labour MP for Birmingham Yardley. Before this, Jess spent five years working for Women’s Aid, and served on Birmingham City Council, where she was appointed Birmingham’s first ever Victims’ Champion. Since being elected to Parliament in 2015, Jess has served on the Women and Equalities Select Committee and the Backbench Business Committee. Last year she authored a guest post on Mumsnet in support of the Reclaim the Internet campaign.

Flick Drummond is the Conservative MP for Portsmouth South. Prior to her election in 2015, she worked as an insurance broker, Ofsted lay school inspector and was a member of the TA Intelligence Corps. Flick now sits on the Women and Equalities Select Committee, where her work has included contributing to the Gender Pay Gap inquiry, in which she called for more flexible working conditions to be offered at the start of employment. Flick cites her own experience of re-entering the jobs market after raising her children as important in giving her a first-hand account of the unique difficulties that women face in the workplace.

So if you'd like to talk to Jess and Flick about women and employment, returning to work, their experience of being women MPs (or just plain MPs), sounding off on Twitter or anything else that takes your fancy, do please join us on Monday. As always, please do keep in mind our webchat guidelines - one question each (follow-ups if there’s time) and please be polite!

Thanks
MNHQ

Regarding gender identity: I acknowledge and agree that just saying you are a woman doesn't mean that you have the lived experience of being a girl and growing into a woman. I recognise the difference.

Regarding parenting a trans child: Have you contacted the Tavistock Clinic or some of the other trans parents support groups like Mermaids? I can't imagine what it would be like to be in your situation. Being certain about anything is difficult as an adult, let alone as a child and as a parent I'm never certain I'm doing the right thing. Of course there should be other help. Like with many things there should be a mixture of medication, talking therapies, support groups and other healthcare. There isn't enough in so many fields, and only having one answer will inevitably never suit everyone.*

I may not be on the same page as Jess on this topic but she did at least try to answer the question.

I really, really hope they have both gone away thinking "this is a really contentious issue for MNers - where do I stand and how does that inform my other work?"

I wasn't around for the webchat so just reading up now. Surprise surprise no real answers to our questions. Why is it so bloody hard to get an answer to this?

I was disappointed that neither ladies could answer any questions about definitions of women. But tbh I can see why not, they don't want to receive death threats, if certain men people didn't like their answers and I get the impression that nearly everything a woman says can upset someone online !

I am pleased they tried to help Fish, though completely confused as to why Fish was banned.

Is there any MP who would be brave and willing to publically answer questions on the sex versus gender questions ?

It is such an important question for women and their daughters.

Mumsnet would be a legend if they could organise such an important and overdue web chat. Women are upset as our rights are disappearing daily and no one will discuss why this is happening and what (if any) safeguards they are aiming to put in place in the future to help women.

Please could this be looked into.

Agreed. We have wanted a web chat on trans issues with someone who can give us answers on these issues - like a simple definition of woman for a start. It's all well and good saying this webchat was about getting women back into work but if woman just means "non-men" how the hell are you going to measure the results?

It's insulting to women. And then to add insult to injury at least 5 posters have now been banned.

This is shameful.

Ultimately I don't see how we can truly address any women's issues unless we are clear on what a woman is. It should be obvious but it just isn't anymore. I respect Jess and I know she has done some fantastic work but this was really disappointing.

And I can't believe a poster was kicked off! Why was she?

At least five posters have been banned?!

It's insulting to women. And then to add insult to injury at least 5 posters have now been banned

How do you know 5 posters have been banned?

Because they have told us.

And fish herself said on the thread

It was a fucking insult.

What is a woman?

That is a really basic question. It is not rude to ask it. If you are telling me that a violent abuser like Kelly Malone is a woman, then I need to know what a woman is.

It isn't too much to ask, that that simple little question be answered.

The fact that two people who are supposed to be our representatives, do not feel that they can answer that question, is Kafkaesque. There is a tiny little corner of Tumbler who vociferously proclaim that "woman" is whatever a man says it is, and then there's the BBC and the mainstream media who promote that view, then there's a whole load of well-meaning people who don't really believe it but feel guilty about not believing it because they assume that they must be behind the times, intellectually incapable of understanding etc. and then there's the rest of the people, none of whom believe a single word of this nonsense. You know, the people who voted Brexit and Trump because they got so pissed off with not being heard in mainstream media.

FFS how long is everyone going to carry on pretending that the emperor's new clothes are beautiful?

Here here Basil.

I'm not really sure what posters here expected (and I say that as a long time poster on these threads )
No serving female MP is going to express a gender critical viewpoint because of the resulting total shitstorm. Look at the hassle and no platforming Julie Bindel gets. How's could an MP do their job in that environment?
And it is disappointing that the purpose of the Web chat was totally drowned out be repeated questions about "what is a woman".
I think we did these two MPs a disservice. We need more women out their serving as MPs and advancing our cause. And they did try to answer questions and reflected on the necessity of lived experience as a woman.
I think they did as much as we could reasonably expect TBH

I thought I was missing something. Engaging with trans activists has convinced me that I'm not. They can't answer question either. I've had men say "I'm not a woman so I wouldn't presume to answer that" and a general "someone who identifies as a woman" - but WHAT are they identifying as? They can't define it!

applauds what Basil said

I hope that Jess and Flick will re-read this thread a few times and take on board everything that is being posted re the definition of a woman, and why it is so critical that this is not ignored and that self-ID is so dangerous for women's rights.

Devi so we need to just accept it that we've lost and roll over? We need women MPs to stand up for women. What do you suggest we do?

"I think we did these two MPs a disservice. We need more women out their serving as MPs and advancing our cause"

So do I.

But let's be clear, if they do away with sex- based protection in favour of gender-identity-based protection, then they are not advancing our cause.

Jess can help set up all the domestic violence refuges she wants, but if men are allowed in them, just because they say they are women, then those refuges will be useless to women.

And I cannot believe that Mumsnet have banned a mother from here, who is desperate to find genuine, unbiased, uncult-like help for her gender-dysphoric child. I thought they were better than this.

I am both angry and scared that mainstream politicians cannot state an opinion on gender identity and the conflict between women & girls', and trans' rights. How have we come to this? I don't blame Jess and Flick at all. I won't post my opinion under my own name (I'd lose my job and become unemployable in my field) but something has gone badly wrong when MPs are unable to answer questions on any topic that has such wide-reaching implications.

How did we get here and where do we go from here?

Also horrified that Fish has been banned.

Twunk:
It's all well and good saying this webchat was about getting women back into work but if woman just means "non-men" how the hell are you going to measure the results?

This is highly relevant to getting women into work. It needs answering.

Every single initiative to get women into work, or to help women make progress in the workplace, is, or soon will be, dealing with the needs of trans women as well. And trans women are seen as having two disadvantages, rather than one - ie being women and being trans - and the PR power of appointing the 'The first trans woman to do X, Y or Z', will ensure that trans women get a disproportionate amount of the resources available. Want to earn some serious diversity brownie points for your organisation? Appoint a trans woman - ticking the 'women' box as well as the LGBTQI* box.

Why on earth has fish been banned? Bloody hell.

This can they be fighting for women if no one can identify what a woman is. That is all I was asking.

Honestly I think anyone who talks about women's issues, needs to define what a woman is from now on.

And not like Theresa May defines Brexit "Brexit means Brexit" "A woman is anyone who identifies as a woman".

A real definition.

Sadly I think you're right.

Sorry that was to LittlePaintBox

Fish has been banned? That's totally astonishing. Fish is the mother of a trans child who has been being supported by MN feminists for months.

Fish has posted that she broke with Mermaids because she was so appalled by the organization's ethos and practice. Btw, the CEO of Mermaids did not have her 16 year old son chemically castrated in Thailand. He was surgically castrated. At 16. A fact so shocking that it almost belief. However it was reported last June and were Mermaids able to demonstrate that the claim was false they would surely have done so.