MNHQ here: webchat with MPs Jess Phillips and Flick Drummond

[BojanaMumsnet]

Hello,

We’re pleased to announce a webchat with Jess Phillips MP and Flick Drummond MP, co-chairs of the All-Party Parliamentary Group (APPG) on Women and Work, on Monday 23 January at 2pm.

Monday sees the release of the APPG’s first annual report, which explores the broad theme of ‘women returners.’ It has considered ‘a range of diverse issues which impact on the ability of women to return to the workplace, particularly after taking maternity leave or fulfilling caring responsibilities.’

Jess Phillips is the Labour MP for Birmingham Yardley. Before this, Jess spent five years working for Women’s Aid, and served on Birmingham City Council, where she was appointed Birmingham’s first ever Victims’ Champion. Since being elected to Parliament in 2015, Jess has served on the Women and Equalities Select Committee and the Backbench Business Committee. Last year she authored a guest post on Mumsnet in support of the Reclaim the Internet campaign.

Flick Drummond is the Conservative MP for Portsmouth South. Prior to her election in 2015, she worked as an insurance broker, Ofsted lay school inspector and was a member of the TA Intelligence Corps. Flick now sits on the Women and Equalities Select Committee, where her work has included contributing to the Gender Pay Gap inquiry, in which she called for more flexible working conditions to be offered at the start of employment. Flick cites her own experience of re-entering the jobs market after raising her children as important in giving her a first-hand account of the unique difficulties that women face in the workplace.

So if you'd like to talk to Jess and Flick about women and employment, returning to work, their experience of being women MPs (or just plain MPs), sounding off on Twitter or anything else that takes your fancy, do please join us on Monday. As always, please do keep in mind our webchat guidelines - one question each (follow-ups if there’s time) and please be polite!

Thanks
MNHQ

It's all well and good saying this webchat was about getting women back into work but if woman just means "non-men" how the hell are you going to measure the results?

This. We know that discrimination can be based on the fact that one section of the human race is the one with the potential to gestate, deliver a baby and provide a source of nutrition for the child using their breasts. We know that discrimination can arise out of the the fact this group have that potential even if they don't actually do it, may have a medical issue affecting their ability to it or even if they ever intend to do it. It doesn't matter how any this group dress or behave it is their biology or biological potential that is the focus in this kind of discrimination.

If you can't name that group and distinguish them from the group who contribute the sperm to the whole baby making process then how can you measure whether any of the initiatives to prevent this discrimination have worked? Given the roles the MPs have it is a very pertinent question and I was very disappointed it wasn't addressed or even acknowledged.

Jess Phillips talks about standing up and reclaiming the internet. She says she won't stop talking about important issues because of bullies. But she is to scared to define what a woman is?

Yeah I can see the frustration, that it's all about trans and they wanted to talk about other stuff, but the elephant in the room, is that all the other stuff is irrelevant if woman doesn't mean anything anymore.

In twenty years time when all the women gold medallists at the Olympics were born boys (though saying so will be considered hate-speak) and women account for 40% of all board directors (but 85% of those "women" will have cocks and they'll be called laydee-peens) and going into hospital will be an ordeal because there'll be an entitled man with an over-sexualised way of behaving and demanding, with no respect for your boundaries, no doubt MP's will be saying how far we've come and we've nearly reached equality.

Because the quickest way to reach equality in a patriarchy, is to carry on being as sexist as always, but pretending the men who have got to the top because they are men, are actually women.

I feel a sci-fi novel coming on.

Fish has been banned for her posts here? WTF is wrong with with this forum and these MP's when they think this is acceptable.
I admire what Jess and Flick and Mumsnet have done so far but for the love of all that is holy, grow a vagina and stand the fuck up for women. What is wrong with you that you don't have the guts to do so? Shame upon you that you put yourself in a position of respect and power but don't have it in you to defend females 😡

Sorry meant to say the man with no respect for your boundaries in the hospital, will be in the next bed because he identifies as a woman and therefore is a woman

It feels pearl-clutchy to say "won't somebody think of the children?!" but really it is the next generation that are being thrown under the bus as well. What sane people honestly recommend irreversible "treatment" to children, without exploring alternatives, to confirm their own world view ("I knew I was trans from the age of 4, ergo this 4 year old also knows it"). Whether you think gender is innate or not, surely it's better to reconcile someone with their own body if it's possible?

You know what, I still regret the decisions I made for my A levels when I was 16, and that wasn't going to rob me of children, and make me a lifelong patient.

How are we the bad guys in this? Seriously, how?

The world has gone fucking mad.

Well I found out too late to join in but am catching up... and...Wow, just wow!

What a complete cock up!

Legitimate questions and concerns ignored. Women told to be quiet and not rude when their questions are not answered.

There is one word I would use Gaslighting except now, instead of men doing it to women, the men have got us doing it to each other:
Women employed to work for us ignoring other women
Women working for/using a site called Mumsnet telling other women they are being rude for wanting fundamental questions answered

There is another word, embarrassing. Please Mumsnet, when will find us someone who will answer our questions?

Basil I know, deep down, that's the case, it just makes me very angry and sad and frustrated at the same time. That female MPs don't have the guts or the brilliance to stand against this fucking mess...and that we are constantly robbed of our agency, shot down and beaten and too frighten to stand up. As things change they ever stay the same

So disappointing that all the questions raising legitimate concerns over the trans issue were blatantly ignored, but I'm not in the least bit surprised.

Even a flavour of biscuit is more important than what makes a woman!

How do we encourage Mumsnet to find someone who will address our concerns?

basil. "
Sorry meant to say the man with no respect for your boundaries in the hospital, will be in the next bed because he identifies as a woman and therefore is a woman"

Either that or they'll be the one giving you a gynecological exam after you've requested a female.

Apologies, I was wrong about the number of bans.

7 have been locked out.

7! That is terrible.

Very disappointing.

MNHQ I think you have handled this very badly indeed. 7 bans!

As you know, Mumsnet has chosen to be a broad church not a narrow one, welcoming to new people, and tolerant of a wide range of different views.

We understand that when you feel strongly about an issue it can be hard to accept other points of view but, put simply, that's the deal here, and we're not going to tolerate contrary opinion being drowned out by what amounts effectively to collective barracking. This stands true for both for regular Mumsnet discussion threads and webchats.

We're happy to allow those we suspended yesterday back but on the understanding that having strong feelings about an issue does not give carte blanche to harangue others or shout them down. It's worth considering whether you can live with that because, if not, it seems likely that Mumsnet is not the place for you, and we'll have to consider permanent suspensions.

Kate, would you consider asking Caroline Flint MP to come for a webchat focused on the importance of balancing women's rights with trans rights? Given that she has previously expressed concern about this?

Wow
What's the point of hosting a webchat then? We need to be told how to be good girls first.

I don't really think 7 people on this thread have been guilty of haranguing - Fish, for example - I don't know how you came to the conclusion that her posts are haranguing? She posted several times but it was fair enough for her to explain that she had already tried Mermaids and had problems with them.
I agree there was a bit of rudeness by some but others of the people banned were polite throughout, so I am a little puzzled by this unusual heaviness with the banhammer.

But the issue was about women's rights. I think it's important that we can define the women part.

Maybe you could ask Maria Miller again? To explain her point of view. Or someone, anyone, in Westminster prepared to engage in this point. Dismissing us as "transphobes" is willfully ignoring genuine concerns on changes in policy.

"Heartbreaking stories" are compelling - but not a reason for the destruction of sex-based protections.

so I am a little puzzled by this unusual heaviness with the banhammer.

Maybe they had had warnings previously? Not sure how the banning works.

'Maybe they had had warnings previously? Not sure how the banning works.'

Nope.
At least one of the ones I have spoken to has never had so much as a deleted post in 10 years of posting.

What about the poor woman Beyond mentioned? Is that not a "heartbreaking story"?

We understand that when you feel strongly about an issue it can be hard to accept other points of view but, put simply, that's the deal here, and we're not going to tolerate contrary opinion being drowned out by what amounts effectively to collective barracking. This stands true for both for regular Mumsnet discussion threads and webchats.

I'm a little confused by this. I've had a quick flick back through the the thread and I don't see any opinion being drowned out, or points of view not being accepted. What I see is

• MNHQ offering a platform to two female politicians to talk about the work they are doing that benefits women.

• As usual MNHQ gives users the opportunity to ask a question each, specifically stating that all questions are welcome.

• Users ask their questions, many in advance of the webchat so the politicians had plenty of time to see what sort of questions they were going to be asked.

• At least half of the questions were on the "trans issue" this was obviously and important question to MNers due to the proportion of MMers questions about it, it was also a pertinent issue due to the definition of women being inherent to any women's issues. In the main the questions were asked thoughtfully and respectfully.

• The webchat was not well "attended" and the two MPs had plenty of time to answer questions fully and thoughtfully, as they did in many cases. However, at no point did they properly address any of the questions about transwomen and the potential impact of women. They did give an initial politicians non answer, which slid away from the question asked and didn't really address it. As we all know it is absolutely infuriating when politicians do this, and it was quite rightly pointed out by posters, in most cases politely.

I feel that suspending people was very heavy handed, in retrospect I suspect you will find unjustified.

I feel very patronised and belittled by MNHQs posts on these threads, and I don't feel they are "in the spirit of Mumsnet" at all.

MNHQ MN has always been sold as a site for intelligent women, surely you would expect people on webchat to be robustly questioned, and answers critiqued (as the guests should expect to).

I get the impression that webchat are now more about promotion for the guests' project, admiration is allowed, questions that prop up their view are allowed dissenting questions are not. Perhaps MNHQ should stop hosting webchats, and just have a thread for press releases instead?