National Adoption Week: Live webchat with Adopt a Better Way founder Francesca Polini, Monday 3 November 12.30 - 1.30pm

[KateHMumsnet]

Next week is National Adoption Week, and to mark it we're hosting a webchat with Francesca Polini, Chair and Founder of adoption support and advocacy organisation Adopt a Better Way.

While adoption rates have risen over the last few years, Adopt a Better Way take the view that the 67,000 children living in care in the UK would benefit from even quicker adoption routes, given the often poor outcomes for children living in care.

Adopt a Better Way aims to change the adoption process, and Francesca will be joining us to discuss how she believes this could be achieved to the benefit of the children concerned. Francesca founded Adopt a Better Way after adopting her first child from Mexico.

Please do join us live on Monday 3 November from 12.30 - 1.30pm to talk about all things adoption-related; as ever, if you can't make it then, do please post your questions in advance on this thread.

Thanks
MNHQ

So why aren't post adoption organisations better at settling adopted children and working with adoptees for things that might occur in the childs future due to their reasons for being in care in the first place? (abuse mainly).

There should be better protection for both child and adoptee.

better help, support, care, and financially too.

children don't ask to be in a circumstance that they are (mostly) rejected by people who are supposed to love them.

and for the people that fall in love with the child and want to be a parent and give the child a happy stable life they should be helped.

Our circumstances are that weve had to move several times because of DCs disabilities and being discriminated against and housing associations/councils STILL don't help with whats need for the child.

please see www.mumsnet.com/Talk/adoptions/2211799-Child-is-very-violent-with-me-WWYD

Just marking my place as an adoptive parent who believes that there absolutely should be a better way! Sadly I will be working and not able to join the live webchat but I really look forward to catching up with the thread after.

I'm particularly interested in how we can improve post-adoption support. I'm staggered that after the prep course, which could be a year or two before you actually adopt, there is then no input into preparing you for the demands of adoptive parenting. At All (or not with our agency). It seems that you have to fight for every scrap of support you get once the child's particular problems are strongly evident; I think ALL adopters should get ongoing support to help them develop high quality therapeutic parenting skills. Also i think we could benefit from regular (at least yearly) input to check on how we are doing and what is needed - kind of like what midwives get with professional updates and statutory supervision.

Exactly, Devora. spot on.

There is no point getting more children adopted when the current system of post adoption support is inadequate.

I have done my utmost to parent my adopted DDs and one of them has such huge difficulties that my other children's security is compromised.
recent thread here

Post adoption support have been useless. I had to refer myself to social services last year when DD1 was attacking me. They referred me back to post adoption support. I needed respite. They "don't do respite for adopted children".

The LA have "discussion evenings" for adopters as part of their support. They are unstructured and there is no specialist input. If it's a discussion evening on education, you go along, get put in groups with other adopters and discuss education. That is all that happens. Inevitably people offload their struggles that are relevant (hopefully) to the topic while everyone else just listens. No actual help or advice from PAS is given. What is the point?

In my area adopted children are unable to access the specialist support of LAC CAMHS. This is ridiculous as LAC have the same issues as adopted children! Normal CAMHS have little experience of attachment issues in my experience.

Support for adopters needs to be available and accessible, otherwise the children being rushed through the system will be experiencing heartbreaking placement breakdowns. On top of everything else.

Marking my place as well, I don't think I'll be able to take part on Monday either, but I'm also keen to hear about ideas for improving access to post-adoption support.

I completely agree that the training and awareness pre-adoption, post adoption support, and also social worker awareness and understanding of certain isues is very poor.

IMHO, there need to be more free post-adoption groups, whether for developing parenting skills, or support. Post-approval and pre-placement prep sessions could be good - I think training on what to expect when your child comes home, navigating the early days, building up bonds etc, is really lacking. Talking about coping with the wait, finding matches, planning for intros. Oh, and explaining the legalities, ie. what happens if birth family want to ask to contest the adoption.

Nothing ever seems to improve post-adoption support much, especially access to more specialist help than the standard support available more locally. I'd love to know what more could be tried to improve it

I'd like to know Francesca's views on more robust disclosure to parents about their childs background before adoption. Do we need to be doing better, and how can we do it?

I personally think it is necessary to find ways of preventing LA's hiding information from parents (which still happens). Whether by legal changes or otherwise. For instance, I saw a court judgement lately in which the Judge decreed that the adopters eventually identified for the child should be given a copy of his Judgements. Now, I would give my right arm for court judgements for my childrens cases, reports and details of their early lives that have vanished forever etc

Im a foster carer, so looking at this from a slightly different perspective.

Things I find wrong with the system:

While parents do have a right to turn their lives around, I think kids are left in their abusive homes too long. The rights of the children to a happy and healthy life seem to be secondary to the rights of the parents. The parents seem to be given chance after chance.

Then the children are left in the care system too long. And then, once the court case has been held, there can be delays while eg kinship carers are assessed, and then more court appearances....From the point that the children in my care were placed, to today, it will be 18 months.

I agree with other posters that have talked about psychological support for these children. My LOs were in a highly abusive and neglectful home. Our LA have been pretty good and, once the degree of damage was recognised, they bought in the services of a specialist trauma therapist, who managed to help the LO through their initial trauma. But it is highly unusual...the LA feel that children in care need to be in a settled placement prior to receiving therapy. I disagree with this. I would like to see each LA have a resident psychologist - even two, one for FOstering and one for Adoption support. Lets pull out of the oversubscribed CAMHS process and develop real specialists in attachment and trauma, abuse and neglect. That psychologist would be able to advise parents and social workers on next steps, would be able to form a real understanding of a child from early in the placement, and help them deal with the trauma of removal as well as the consequences of neglect.

Id like to see that post adoption support available to parents until the child is grown. Its no good only offering support for the first year - these children can have the double whammy of bad genes/genetic damage from alcohol/drugs; and the impact of attachment issues and truama/abuse/neglect, so their issues are not just going to go away because they are in a loving home... I have a dear friend that has sadly ended her adoption after a lack of support for her children once they hit puberty - its such a difficult time for any parent, but the issues are magnified for adopted kids - and yet they languish on the waiting list for psychological services which are not geared towards the severe issues they face.

Marking my place while I think about a good Q!

YY to info being kept from adoptees too.

ANY parent, blood or not, has full rights to know about ther childs welfare, and that nothings done or said without their permission.

We are PARENTS, not glorified nannies.

Also, trying in vain to get DCS bloodline details as SS, adoption agencies, and GPs etc will not find out for me.

DC has inherited sociopathic tendencies (I know that much from DCS past) and just today I had to call for medical assistance after yet another beating from DC.

resulting in me having another black eye, a aprianed wrist and ankle, bruises all over.

DCs got the strength of an ox and I already had abuse from an ex, I do NOT need this from a child, and then not getting any support or help for DC AND for me.

How can DC get the help needed if I cant tell anyone whats gone on in their DNA?

8Id like to see that post adoption support available to parents until the child is grown. Its no good only offering support for the first year - these children can have the double whammy of bad genes/genetic damage from alcohol/drugs; and the impact of attachment issues and truama/abuse/neglect, so their issues are not just going to go away because they are in a loving home... I have a dear friend that has sadly ended her adoption after a lack of support for her children once they hit puberty - its such a difficult time for any parent, but the issues are magnified for adopted kids - and yet they languish on the waiting list for psychological services which are not geared towards the severe issues they face.*

^^ This.

oh I forgto to mention the verbals I get from DCtoo, abut killing me in my slep, and getting EVERYTHING and hitting me with it- a spatula, a toy, a book, etc etc.

This is not fair on anyone concerned, child or parent that loves child so much to put up with all this.

I'd heard about post-adoption support being patchy before I applied to adopt, but I have to say I've been really shocked at how very poor it is. Not just the lack of specialist support, but how ill-equipped mainstream services are to help. Why did I have to fight with my GP to get a prescription for the specialist formula my dd had been on since birth (her rationale being, "Placement is as good a time as any to try something new"). Why did the HV know nothing about adopted children, insisting that I try controlled crying to get her to settle in her strange new home at nights. Why did the GP, again, wage a persistent campaign to get me to agree to hep B vaccination for my dd on the grounds of her 'risk factors' (which were all historic, not current)? Why isn't her school remotely interested in her needs as an adopted child? Why, every time we have an incident, is their response to ask me to send in books? Why don't they have the books already??

Rain, Adoptakid, I am so sorry for everything you are going through. It's appalling that you're having to fight so hard to get the help you need.

Marking place as will be at work and reading later.

We're a week away from panel and it's been a huge struggle to get this far, involving botched processes, lost documents, illiterate reporting, and bizarre judgements - alongside some very good, and very beleaguered, SW experts who are clearly struggling to keep the system working. This is nothing to what some parents are dealing with post-adoption. These stories scare me and have come very close to making me pull out altogether. How can this process move from being a poor quality and unreliable mess to something efficient and effective which has a higher chance of good outcomes for everyone? How can the benefits of doing it well be recycled into investment in decent systems and support, and expert, well trained and adequately resourced staff? The social costs of doing it badly must after all be huge.

Hi Francesca, thank you for taking the time to do this! I like many others am bewildered by the convoluted processes and time/cost involved to try and adopt. Feels like I'm the open begging for a favour rather than offering my love and support! Do you have any advice for how to stick it out and end up being ultimately successful? There's so many abandoned children in this country and it simply should be easier to give them our love x

I'm currently preparing my little ones life story book, would love your advice on best practise for this and any recommendations for book for adopted children and their birth siblings thanks

Test

Hi Everyone

Francesca is here and ready to get going - welcome to MNHQ Francesca!

Great questions so far - and do keep them coming.

Katie

[quote Adoptakid]So why aren't post adoption organisations better at settling adopted children and working with adoptees for things that might occur in the childs future due to their reasons for being in care in the first place? (abuse mainly).

There should be better protection for both child and adoptee.

better help, support, care, and financially too.

children don't ask to be in a circumstance that they are (mostly) rejected by people who are supposed to love them.

and for the people that fall in love with the child and want to be a parent and give the child a happy stable life they should be helped.

Our circumstances are that weve had to move several times because of DCs disabilities and being discriminated against and housing associations/councils STILL don't help with whats need for the child.

please see www.mumsnet.com/Talk/adoptions/2211799-Child-is-very-violent-with-me-WWYD[/quote]

Hello Adoptakid, thank you for connecting. I am really sorry to hear about your issues with the authorities and with DC. It is sad that the neglect he was subject to is now having an impact in your life as well. I think you must demand support from social services. I also agree that post adoption support is an area where huge improvement is necessary and we strongly campaign for this at Adopt a Better Way.

@Devora

Just marking my place as an adoptive parent who believes that there absolutely should be a better way! Sadly I will be working and not able to join the live webchat but I really look forward to catching up with the thread after.

I'm particularly interested in how we can improve post-adoption support. I'm staggered that after the prep course, which could be a year or two before you actually adopt, there is then no input into preparing you for the demands of adoptive parenting. At All (or not with our agency). It seems that you have to fight for every scrap of support you get once the child's particular problems are strongly evident; I think ALL adopters should get ongoing support to help them develop high quality therapeutic parenting skills. Also i think we could benefit from regular (at least yearly) input to check on how we are doing and what is needed - kind of like what midwives get with professional updates and statutory supervision.

Hello Devora, thank your for your message. At Adopt a Better Way we have been campaigning for improvement to post adoption services for over three years. I know there are plans for educational needs for adopted children in the West London area. It is therefore worth you connecting with your local authority to see what plans are in your area. Please do get in touch again if you would like to know more.

Do you think Ive been sitting here not trying this?

Ive been YEARS hassling the social services/adoption agency to help and support including CAMHS, and yet F.A. is all I get, excuses and let downs and faffing about ALL the time.

Cant YOU contact my social services/adoptiuon service if you pm me Ill give you their details and childs details. maybe they'll listen to you.

right now ive had to send DC up to room as thyve tried to stab me with a biro, wacked me across the back with a metal spatula (trying to help teach DC cooking) and got a sore jaw from being punched.

I keep calling the police and they say SS are useless and don't do anything and they cant exactly arrest DC as DCs not a thig, DCs got a genuine medical disorder.

what the F. do I do? they wont help me. EVER.

@YouAreMyRain

There is no point getting more children adopted when the current system of post adoption support is inadequate.

I have done my utmost to parent my adopted DDs and one of them has such huge difficulties that my other children's security is compromised.
recent thread here

Post adoption support have been useless. I had to refer myself to social services last year when DD1 was attacking me. They referred me back to post adoption support. I needed respite. They "don't do respite for adopted children".

The LA have "discussion evenings" for adopters as part of their support. They are unstructured and there is no specialist input. If it's a discussion evening on education, you go along, get put in groups with other adopters and discuss education. That is all that happens. Inevitably people offload their struggles that are relevant (hopefully) to the topic while everyone else just listens. No actual help or advice from PAS is given. What is the point?

In my area adopted children are unable to access the specialist support of LAC CAMHS. This is ridiculous as LAC have the same issues as adopted children! Normal CAMHS have little experience of attachment issues in my experience.

Support for adopters needs to be available and accessible, otherwise the children being rushed through the system will be experiencing heartbreaking placement breakdowns. On top of everything else.

Hello YouAreMyRain, many thanks for your message. We agree with your comments regarding post adoption support which is at best patchy in the UK at the moment. At Adopt a Better Way we campaign for the same changes that you suggest. Particularly we see the need for greater consistency and offering across LA's and an approach specifically tailored to the child. To your point about there being no point in improving adoption services without improving post adoption services we feel that if children are adopted as early as possible when they become available they will be accumulating a lot less neglect and trauma and therefore needing less support afterwards. Please continue to advocate for your child's right for support in your borough. Please keep in touch.

@Lilka

Marking my place as well, I don't think I'll be able to take part on Monday either, but I'm also keen to hear about ideas for improving access to post-adoption support.

I completely agree that the training and awareness pre-adoption, post adoption support, and also social worker awareness and understanding of certain isues is very poor.

IMHO, there need to be more free post-adoption groups, whether for developing parenting skills, or support. Post-approval and pre-placement prep sessions could be good - I think training on what to expect when your child comes home, navigating the early days, building up bonds etc, is really lacking. Talking about coping with the wait, finding matches, planning for intros. Oh, and explaining the legalities, ie. what happens if birth family want to ask to contest the adoption.

Nothing ever seems to improve post-adoption support much, especially access to more specialist help than the standard support available more locally. I'd love to know what more could be tried to improve it

I'd like to know Francesca's views on more robust disclosure to parents about their childs background before adoption. Do we need to be doing better, and how can we do it?

I personally think it is necessary to find ways of preventing LA's hiding information from parents (which still happens). Whether by legal changes or otherwise. For instance, I saw a court judgement lately in which the Judge decreed that the adopters eventually identified for the child should be given a copy of his Judgements. Now, I would give my right arm for court judgements for my childrens cases, reports and details of their early lives that have vanished forever etc

Dear Lilka thank you for your question. My understanding is that family courts should be disclosing relevant information for your children especially when that helps you with the type of support they will need now and in the future. As we have previously said at Adopt a Better Way we campaign strongly to improve post adoption support, including disclosure of information from social services and the courts. Please get in touch if you would like to know more about our campaigns and how to support us. Meanwhile keep advocating for your rights and the ones of your children.