Does anyone fancy going a bit Stepford with me?

[BEAUTlFUL]

I regret that title now! but will carry on regardless...

Basically, I have recently read a marriage book called "Fascinating Womanhood" by helen Andelin, written in the 1960's, and am starting to practise it in my marriage. It involves a lot of work, but good work, IYKWIM, accepting DH, admiring him, appreciating his efforts, listening to him, being a "domestic goddess", taking over childcare completely, settling him with a drink when he comes home, etc.

I'm LOVING it and actually weirdly feel a lot happier and more confident since I started it! I know it's not going to be popular with many of you, but is there anyone out there who fancies trying it out?

We could do it like a sort of bookclub, and follow the assignments every week. It promises to make your DH absolutely gaga in love again, v attentive, romantic, etc.

But more than that, it really teaches you acceptance, so if they're not being perfect, it really doesn't get to you as much. Or at all.

I know it'll get scoffed at, but I don't care really!

Anyone? It's hard work, but I'm convinced it's worth it as after just 3 weeks, DH and I feel so much closer, he is saying ILY all the time, we are laughing again, holding hands in bed, etc.

Even my mum has noticed. We went there for lunch and afterwards Mum rang up and said, "What's with you two? Your DH looks so happy and confident, and your body-language together was so 'united'!"

Joan of Arc had a boyish haircut too, don't forget.

I can;t recommend you any marriage books, Beautiful (Well I could recommend you a few if what you want is to have a good laugh, I suppose). Because they're all shit. THey all start from the premise that women need to manage men's undesirable behaviour and 'work at' their couple-relationships ie they peddle the idea that couplehood is a woman's 'job', whereas the truth is that coulehood is no big deal and there are far, far worse ways to live than being single, and if a partner is lazy, selfish or obnoxious, you should just move on rather than sacrificing your life, your free time and your self-respect.

Now you're much more of JOA type, solidgoldbrass. Good for you!

Except, except... I really do think there is way too much selfishness on here. When you get married & have kids, I really don't think you should take the attitude that "if a partner is lazy, selfish or obnoxious, you should just move on". What about your kids?

I know FW isn't perfect, but at least she addresses the question that people's relationships are -- oh God, what's the word, not seesaw, but constantly affected by one another?

If one of you goes fabulously appreciative & positive, of course it will affect the other. On here, the consensus seems to be that the bloke will go all cocky & start expecting it all as his due, but I wonder.

Let's be honest, sometimes maybe even quite a lot of the time a bloke could be being an arse because his wife is being a pain. Have you never gone withdrawn & moody because your bloke was being unaffectionate, or whatever? We do affect one another and I don't think the answer is to blame it all on the man.

I come at it from a slightly different viewpoint than Solidgoldbrass in that couplehood is big deal to me: dh and I have been very happy over 25 years and to me our relationship is immensely important. Also, I was brought up by another very close couple, and my grandparents provided an example of a third. So I would put a very high value on a working relationship.

But not even my grandfather who was born in the 1880's could have coped with a Helen-Andelin-type wife. What he had, and enjoyed, was a wife he could talk to as a sensible human being and who saw him as a sensible human baby, not a big baby to be manipulated and humoured. If this kind of mutually respecting relationship was possible in the 1920's- why not now?

It seems like part of your problem was nagging. This is clearly not a habit that leads to marital happiness. So you have read a book that said wives have to be submissive, you stopped nagging and the results were good. But you could equally well have stopped nagging by sitting down and saying to yourself 'dh and I are equal human beings, we have a lot in common. I don't like being nagged, so there's a fair chance he doesn't.'

who's blaming it all on the man?
i can be horribly moody, and i know it's not my dh's fault.
he does a bloomin' admirable job of putting up with me actually...

beautiful, go along with your post of 16.09 and throw the bloody book away, you already have the right idea, you just don't need to become a subservient wimp with a baby voice to help make your marriage a happier place.

you are plainly not a selfish, naggy old bag, even without the help of this book you can work out your dh better points and give him his due. of course plesant behaviour will rub off on each other, as does nastiness etc.

any book that that implies domestic violence should be met with smile needs burning.

cory says it better than me.

I couldn't read all of this, but, Beautiful, have you read The Women's Room?

"a partner is lazy, selfish or obnoxious, you should just move on"."

No no no! Most of us don't marry men like that so we know that isn't their only way of behaving. We all get into bad habits and it takes effort to change them. On both sides. But if, after effort, it doesn't help and you are still unhappy, maybe it is time to move on. I am all for being tolerant - I hate reading about people 'telling their partners off' and getting angry for making genuine mistakes, when it's something we all do, and I've cut out the nagging personally, but I simply draw the line at manipulating any other adult, by acting out of character, to behave in ways I want. I prefer to be straightforward in the way I deal with the person I've chosen as life partner.

agree cory....goes back to what I said earlier about Beautiful not seeing to acknowledge a middle ground between fighting/nagging and being all submissive and appreciative...
those are not the only ways to behave...
you can talk to eachother like grown-ups, surely?

Beautiful, I've read a fair chunk of this thread, but definitely not all of it, however I think you are being unduly hard on yourself. You are clearly a strong and intelligent woman who, like most people, thinks about things; relationships, life, love, quantum physics and stuff. It's important to think about these things, and mn is a great resource for discussing ideas. The only problem is that when everything is written down, and manners are out of the window (mn!),it is really easy to become entrenched in a particular argument because you have been put on the defensive. You haven't done this, you have been flexible, and intelligent in your discussion, the points you make are interesting and sensible. I don't necessarily agree with your op, but actually, nor do you, now you've thought it through a bit. You are nothing like the daft bloke on the fast show you describe (not that I watch the fast show as it is shite!). You come across as an open minded, good hearted, optimistic, intelligent woman, one who is prepared to think ideas through, not just argue for the sake of it, and there's not much wrong with that, now is there!?

and you've coped with some of the slatings you have had on thei thread with a sense of humour. Much respect due imo

OrmIrian, OK so sometimes partners can sort out an entrenched argument or change habits that annoy each other etc - but for it to be worth doing it's got to involve compromise and consideration from both partners. Now I have been lucky and smart enough to have avoided ever living with a partner or marrying one - while I can see it's something that some people like to do (and fair play to those of you who want to do it: I don't want to climb mountains either but wouldn't knock anyone else for doing so) I worry that so many people seem to have absorbed the idea that couplehood is something worth messing up your life for, binning your ambitions and smothering your personality. Yuk, no thanks.

Dittany, I did pick up on your point about the abused wives should just try harder, I just didn't mention it specifically.

Cory - tell me this was a mistake?
"What he had, and enjoyed, was a wife he could talk to as a sensible human being and who saw him as a sensible human baby, not a big baby to be manipulated and humoured."
You meant human being, right?

And Beautiful, yes, I too am very admiring of your humour and grace under fire in this thread - well done.

I second minkyborage. Fair play to beautiful!!

You are a loon, but a good one. The kind I would like to debate all this twaddle with over a few beers in the pub.

You have not risen to people's bile, and not responded to some pretty personal judgements on you.

And this thread has given me hours of pleasure.

Oh dear thumbwitch, my poor old Granddad is turning in his grave

Yes, a sensible human being. He was one. He only spent a year or so, right at the beginning, being a baby. Not when I knew him.

solidgoldbrass on Thu 27-Nov-08 18:32:29
"I worry that so many people seem to have absorbed the idea that couplehood is something worth messing up your life for, binning your ambitions and smothering your personality."

Sheer ignorance on my part. I have simply never experienced any of this as a result of couplehood.

You lot are nice. I admire niceness, it's very feminine. Thanks.

oooh, I've been back & forth about this this afternoon. not to keep a dying thread alive, but... I had a FW moment today and I didn't know how to handle it.

I don't work as often as DH but, when I do, I earn the same but in a much shorter space of time, and mine is writing whilst his is physical work. This afternoon I was given a last-minute writing job and netted about what he'd get in a week. Obviously, fab. So I told DH.

He said, "Well done", etc. then he said, "That was easy." IE, easy for me to make that much £ in a couple of hours. I felt rather but laughed and said that I just made it look easy.

So that was that... then he sounded a bit... I dunno. Deflated? So I asked him what we should spend the money on. This cheered him up cos he got to tell me (in a pretend-masterful way) that we will pay the mortgage with it, and save some, and be sensible. (I am crap with money. I'm not putting myself down -- I really, really am.) Then he told me about a job he's waiting to hear about, and I got him to tell me how much he'd earn for that, and it's lots more than mine so that cheered him up too.

Then I thought... I bet those MN girls will think I'm in a really horrible, unhealthy relationship... am I?

I'm really confused about all this.

Do you think maybe you're thinking too much? I find thinking too much quite unhelpful.

I think you have gleaned some useful basic principles from this FW stuff (not nagging, being supportive, loving etc) which are good but there is so much crapolla in the FW stuff (such as acting like a five year old and completely subjugating yourself in the hope a violent husband will stop hitting you, and letting your husband have final say in all things regardless of you feelings - SGB and I have been on a thread where 2 posters' partners are trying to pressurise them into aborting much wanted pregnancies - do you really think FW is right that those men should make that decision for their partners?) that it has got a few goats here. I don't think anyone thinks you are in a horrible relationship - only you know the truth about that.

You are in an adult relationship which will not be improved by acting like a lobotomised simpering fool, although it doesn't sound like that's the way you are behaving anyway. You are trying to avoid acting like a shrew and there's nothing wrong with that.

Although, I would have told DH in much more forceful terms that it was not easy to earn that money.

In fairness to FW, she does say "if you are in a physically or mentally dangerous relationship, leave as soon as possible & take the children with you".

And she says that you have to leave him if he is unfaithful.

AND she says, you don't have to do the baby-anger, but you do have to find a way to let your DH know when you're angry so as to avoid resentments building up. But those points are rather buried in the book... I searched it this afternoon.

Yes, I do think way too much!

I can imagine hypothetically having a very similar conversation with my dh. You were being considerate of his feelings -nothing wrong with that. Thinking about how to belittle yourself so he gets bigged up - that's the problem - and I don't think you did that at all.

COry: both from threads on here and people I have met in RL: this mindset does exist and is very undesirable. (It's not happened to me but I have seen it).