Does anyone fancy going a bit Stepford with me?

[BEAUTlFUL]

I regret that title now! but will carry on regardless...

Basically, I have recently read a marriage book called "Fascinating Womanhood" by helen Andelin, written in the 1960's, and am starting to practise it in my marriage. It involves a lot of work, but good work, IYKWIM, accepting DH, admiring him, appreciating his efforts, listening to him, being a "domestic goddess", taking over childcare completely, settling him with a drink when he comes home, etc.

I'm LOVING it and actually weirdly feel a lot happier and more confident since I started it! I know it's not going to be popular with many of you, but is there anyone out there who fancies trying it out?

We could do it like a sort of bookclub, and follow the assignments every week. It promises to make your DH absolutely gaga in love again, v attentive, romantic, etc.

But more than that, it really teaches you acceptance, so if they're not being perfect, it really doesn't get to you as much. Or at all.

I know it'll get scoffed at, but I don't care really!

Anyone? It's hard work, but I'm convinced it's worth it as after just 3 weeks, DH and I feel so much closer, he is saying ILY all the time, we are laughing again, holding hands in bed, etc.

Even my mum has noticed. We went there for lunch and afterwards Mum rang up and said, "What's with you two? Your DH looks so happy and confident, and your body-language together was so 'united'!"

[moondog]

You are reinforcing him for desired behaviour on a variable schedule. Tis simple
B F Skinner would be proud of you.

[BEAUTlFUL]

Lovely Moondog -- what on earth does that mean??!

[S1ur]

It means husbands are like dogs

[S1ur]

or indeed rats (a la Skinner)

[BEAUTlFUL]

Now he is saying, significantly, that he is going to bed and I should come too.

Of course, FW says that you shouldn't do it every time. So should this be the time when I turn down his lusty advances? That would surprise him, I never say no.

Hmm...

[S1ur]

Sorry to be a bore but someone has to say it.

Do YOU want to have sex?

[S1ur]

Ah fuck it lemme join in your bizarre trip to pre-feminism.

Well, perhaps you could take this opportunity to say no and thus make yourself ever more desirable, however the poor lamb has work in the morning and may need a little 'release' perhaps you are being a little selfish?

Could you resist another time instead?

[BlackEyedDogstar]

Good god, BEAUTlFUL, where do I sign up for this?

I have skimmed this huge thread and well, your 1960's take on life interests me. Let me make this clear, I am the boss of this household. I get things done. I do the ladee-work; I make fresh dinners, care for our son, work self employed for a good rate etc BUT I also do the men jobs - bins, diy, guttering, oh y'know. Trad willy stuff. My balls are mahoosive.

And I think this undermines my sweet hapless kindly DP. I think it might help us if I got a bit more Stepford. I would enjoy (I think) being more appreciative of his masculinity and he might enjoy more support, a bit more recognition of all he brings to this relationship/household; creatively and financially.

Hoo yes, I'll give it a go. Err what do I do now?

[S1ur]

I am really not sure you are taking this seriously. Surely if you were fully committed you'd take it further? Why choose 1950s/60s as the time of glory? After all, divorce rates began to rocket shortly after.

No, I suggest more around the 1890s as a start, we can discuss corsets in style and beauty if you like?

In fact, start at turn of century and work your way gently backwards until you reach the truly golden age of neanderthal, where couples were so attuned to one another that a mere club over the head was all that was needed to express true love and respect.

I call this the 'taking your love backwards' approach. I have written a book. Therefore I am validated.

[Gemzooks]

actually I must say if I was going to go back to a wifely model, I think it reached its height in the 1880s. There are some great bits in the Louisa May Alcott books, especially Little Women. But underlying it all is the need for mutual openness and honesty. In fact Jo and Professor Baer have a very equal marriage, running their school together! One of the later books has a woman doctor in it. I also have a great marriage book from the 20s which gives you ways of assessing your sexual compatibility with a bloke without having had any sexual contact (which was a necessary thing to know). It says things like 'you should think twice about marriage if you find him physically repellent!" At least that's quite sensible!

The 1950s and 60s wife ideal is more sinister because it was a backlash against lots of women being independent in the war and having jobs, and there was a social push to get them back in the home, so there's a kind of propaganda element to it too. Fashion echoed it as well, e.g. wasp waists and big flouncy skirts after the wartime cloth shortages. So all very understandable from a historical context, but again, not relevant any more. thank God!

Our society is a lot more 'I deserve to have everything be perfect, I am worth it, if you don't give it to me I will leave you', and some of the more unselfish and humble attitudes of the past do ring true in that context, but why can't we just remake it for the modern day, rather than going back to things that were of their time. Otherwise it's like joining a historical re-enactment society or something. Could be kinky for a while, but not sure about it as a way to save a marriage?

[Tanee58]

WOMEN AND TURKEYS AGAINST CHRISTMAS.

HURRAH!

[Cicatrice]

I've read the thread and it just makes my blood run cold. I agree with being at least as nice to your DH as your would be to a friend but if I had to try so hard to keep my marriage going I would question the worth of said marriage.

Because to follow the FW advice would be beyond hard for me. I would be in a froth of resentment before DH got in the door. And I COULD NOT let him "fumble" decisions with something as important as family finance. He wouldn't actually, but I couldn't take that chance.

[Habbibu]

Beautiful, I've enjoyed this thread, and I know much of it is lighthearted, but two things bother me.

1. Your husband seems to only treat you well when you make yourself subservient to him. This may be ok in the short term, but do you really want this for the rest of your life?

1. Is this really the role model you want your children to see? I don't know if you have boys, girls or both, but do you want your daughter to think that women have to defer to men, or your son to believe that women are second-class citizens? Because this is the model you're using. And fine - you're clearly a grown, intelligent, (and v. funny) woman who can make her own choices, but you will influence your children's perceptions by your behaviour now.

I'd HATE my daughter to think that this was the only way she could get a man to treat her with respect. Thankfully she sees her father treat me with kindness, love and respect because he's a decent human who knows that's just how you should behave.

Your dh has perpetuated a stereotype he learned from his parents - do you want this to carry on?

[moondog]

Beautiful, it's what you are doing!

[zulubump]

I don't think that Beautiful is being subservient to her dh. Serving him yes by looking after the home, cooking etc. But then he is serving her too by going out to work and earning money for the both of them. I don't think that because Beautiful has re-arranged the way she does things at home and is making an effort to treat her husband differently she is being subservient. In fact she said she feels more in control and more confident doing things this new way. Hardly sounds how one would feel if being subservient. And in relationship we all need to be willing to adjust how we behave for the other now and again if we love them.

By the way Beautiful I'm interested to know which bits of the book you have applied. I know you said you tried to have the house more peaceful when your dh gets home and to listen to him more. Are there any other bits that you think have worked well? I was interested in getting a copy of FW but have to admit I've been put off by the childlike anger excerpts that got posted somewhere!

[Habbibu]

zulubump - what about all the bits where he makes the decisions, where he has the final say? Is this really what we want to be teaching our children?

[8oreighty]

I want to get the book, intrigued. Get so pissed off with trying to do everything perfectly would be quite funny to be told how I should actually be doing it, might be easier than constantly arguing every time he walks thorugh the door.

[zulubump]

"what about all the bits where he makes the decisions, where he has the final say? Is this really what we want to be teaching our children?"

Is this what you've been doing Beautiful, letting your dh have the final say in everything?

I think that in my marriage I tend to have the final say on anything much involving our dd and how the house is run. I've never thought about it too much but I suppose dh has set up most of how our finances run, but we've always discussed it first. I think I'd be happy to let him make most decisions in that area, but then I do trust him totally. Not sure how I'd handle it if I didn't.

[Habbibu]

"The man's role is equally important as the guide, protector and provider. If the man does not do his part, be a shining example and do yours anyway. When it comes to his leading the family, throw him the ball and let him fumble with it, and know that he will fumble many times before he learns to make wise decisions. If you want to do anything to help him, pray for him." That sort of thing, zulu. Dittany quotes huge sections early on in the thread.

[BEAUTlFUL]

LOLOL at "turkeys voting for christmas".

Subservience... I had gone a bit subservient, to the extent that DS1 said last night, "No, Dad's in charge. You do what he says."

I went to find DH, where he was smoking his pipe in the drawing-room in the shade of a potted palm, and mentioned this and said it wouldn't be v good for DS1 to grow up like that. DH put on his monacle and asked me to bring DS1 to him (washed and quiet, etc).

then DH had a chat with DS1 and said that Mummy & daddy were both in charge and made decisions together, like a team.

Today we spoke again about the whole "in charge" thing and DH said that he's a firm believer in two heads being better than one, and that really, probably, we should decide things together.

He is still - to my mind - in charge of deciding how we spend the money but ONLY because he is sensible with it, not reckless like me.

I don't think he's nice only when I'm submissive. I think he finds it flattering, but in a guilty way, and is quite happy to give it up.

He is lovely and definitely the more rational in the relationship.

[BEAUTlFUL]

DH also said that he thought his Dad ran the home like a Dictatorship, and he definitely would not want to be like that.

[zulubump]

Hmm, so if it's not subservience that's made all the difference in your marriage Beautiful, what would you say has? Lol at the potted palm and pipe smoking!

[BEAUTlFUL]

zulubump...

I think you should definitely get the book. it's on amazon and not expensive. You can take what you like out of it. it's hard to say what I've done as I went overboard at the start, but basically:

• Praised him a LOT
  
• Taken on the domestic stuff. this is easier than doing 50% of it as the resentment actually disappears - if he helps it's a bonus, if not, no big deal. Making it my responsibility means I get it all done in half the time, do it all straight away then leave myself free to do other stuff.
  
• Gone all domestic goddess and flitted round in nice clothes, tidying
  
• Seemed HAPPY. FW says to cultivate an air of "radiant happiness". I took that to mean "stop wandering round the house, grumbling".
  
• Stopped saying anything at all about his driving.
  
• Accepted him completely. Really. This is the best bit. All old resentments immediately vanish & you just look to their best side.
  
• Stopped spending money on anything I wanted, let him set a budget, stopped fighting his money-ideas (basically, to save before we spend) and gone all thrifty.
  
• Stopped giving him unsolicited advice.
  Got interested in his work, let him talk to me about his work (instead of going on about mine), stopped trying to impress* him but let him impress me.
  
• Listened when he talked. Put down my book, turned to face him, gave him my full attention, didn't let kids interrupt, etc.
  
  I was a bitch before FW!