Does anyone fancy going a bit Stepford with me?

[BEAUTlFUL]

I regret that title now! but will carry on regardless...

Basically, I have recently read a marriage book called "Fascinating Womanhood" by helen Andelin, written in the 1960's, and am starting to practise it in my marriage. It involves a lot of work, but good work, IYKWIM, accepting DH, admiring him, appreciating his efforts, listening to him, being a "domestic goddess", taking over childcare completely, settling him with a drink when he comes home, etc.

I'm LOVING it and actually weirdly feel a lot happier and more confident since I started it! I know it's not going to be popular with many of you, but is there anyone out there who fancies trying it out?

We could do it like a sort of bookclub, and follow the assignments every week. It promises to make your DH absolutely gaga in love again, v attentive, romantic, etc.

But more than that, it really teaches you acceptance, so if they're not being perfect, it really doesn't get to you as much. Or at all.

I know it'll get scoffed at, but I don't care really!

Anyone? It's hard work, but I'm convinced it's worth it as after just 3 weeks, DH and I feel so much closer, he is saying ILY all the time, we are laughing again, holding hands in bed, etc.

Even my mum has noticed. We went there for lunch and afterwards Mum rang up and said, "What's with you two? Your DH looks so happy and confident, and your body-language together was so 'united'!"

Thanks ruby. Some things are worth making a stand for

Thanks beautiful! The 'not being critical' thing certainly speaks to my condition. I thought you might like this too, it's about the different ways men and women talk by a sociolinguist. Basically understanding why we get in a muddle with the opposite sex and how to avoid it. a good article

Not a million miles from what you're talking about - ie how to get out of the negative rut in a marriage.

This is not about "getting nothing in return"! You get shedloads back! If you wanted to, you could very easily use the book to completely manipulate your DH in order to get everything you ever wanted out of him -- diamonds, sex, 24/7 hair-stroking, money, attention. That's not what I'm doing (except for the hair-stroking, of course), but you could.

I can see why you'd all think I was a TOTAL nutter if you thought I was giving & giving literally to get NOTHING in return. But it's not like that. You get your DH's affection hand-holding, sex, kissing, sparkley eyes, compliments. You get his attention he rushes home to tell you stuff, he opens up, he confides in you. You get his protection -- some of you will balk, but he looks after you, carries things to spare you the effort, he would Hoover if it hurt you, Thumbwitch, because he would want to protect you from pain. My DH is HAPPILY helping round the house WITHOUT BEING ASKED.

We don't need our husbands to do things like this for us, but some women really really like it when they do. I hated, for example, paying for stuff when we went out. I don't know why, I just hated it. I wanted him to want to pay. Even if it came from the joint account, it was the principle! The other day he started to say, "Have you got any money?", then stopped himself. When we got to the cafe, he paid for everything willingly. (Custy will assume that was because he's siphoned all my money out of the account, but it wasn't!)

I would rather have DH's adoration than have him empty the dishwasher. I could pay a cleaner to do that. I don't want us to blokey equals, like flatmates. I want him to be protective, adoring and romantic. Off his own back.

Lots of you might have marriages like that anyway, and good for you! Mine wasn't. I fought for 50% of everything and we were competitive. Now we are not. Lots of you might not want a marriage like that! Again, whatever works for you. I'm not trying to recruit, I just wondered if anyone fancied trying it.
This is not about "getting nothing in return"! You get shedloads back! If you wanted to, you could very easily use the book to completely manipulate your DH in order to get everything you ever wanted out of him -- diamonds, sex, 24/7 hair-stroking, money, attention. That's not what I'm doing (except for the hair-stroking, of course), but you could.

I can see why you'd all think I was a TOTAL nutter if you thought I was giving & giving literally to get NOTHING in return. But it's not like that. You get your DH's affection hand-holding, sex, kissing, sparkley eyes, compliments. You get his attention he rushes home to tell you stuff, he opens up, he confides in you. You get his protection -- some of you will balk, but he looks after you, carries things to spare you the effort, he would Hoover if it hurt you, Thumbwitch, because he would want to protect you from pain. My DH is HAPPILY helping round the house WITHOUT BEING ASKED.

We don't need our husbands to do things like this for us, but some women really really like it when they do. I hated, for example, paying for stuff when we went out. I don't know why, I just hated it. I wanted him to want to pay. Even if it came from the joint account, it was the principle! The other day he started to say, "Have you got any money?", then stopped himself. When we got to the cafe, he paid for everything willingly. (Custy will assume that was because he's siphoned all my money out of the account, but it wasn't!)

I would rather have DH's adoration than have him empty the dishwasher. I could pay a cleaner to do that. I don't want us to blokey equals, like flatmates. I want him to be protective, adoring and romantic. Off his own back.

Lots of you might have marriages like that anyway, and good for you! Mine wasn't. I fought for 50% of everything and we were competitive. Now we are not.

I can't explain it. You'd have to read he book, or try a few bits yourself. I'm sure I'm being unconvincing.

It's like... You have been feeding your cat with dog food for years, and he is withdrawn and listless. Then you swap to feeding him cat food and he is suddenly full of energy, vigour and enthusiasm.

This is not about "getting nothing in return"! You get shedloads back! If you wanted to, you could very easily use the book to completely manipulate your DH in order to get everything you ever wanted out of him -- diamonds, sex, 24/7 hair-stroking, money, attention. That's not what I'm doing (except for the hair-stroking, of course), but you could.

I can see why you'd all think I was a TOTAL nutter if you thought I was giving & giving literally to get NOTHING in return. But it's not like that. You get your DH's affection hand-holding, sex, kissing, sparkley eyes, compliments. You get his attention he rushes home to tell you stuff, he opens up, he confides in you. You get his protection -- some of you will balk, but he looks after you, carries things to spare you the effort, he would Hoover if it hurt you, Thumbwitch, because he would want to protect you from pain. My DH is HAPPILY helping round the house WITHOUT BEING ASKED.

We don't need our husbands to do things like this for us, but some women really really like it when they do. I hated, for example, paying for stuff when we went out. I don't know why, I just hated it. I wanted him to want to pay. Even if it came from the joint account, it was the principle! The other day he started to say, "Have you got any money?", then stopped himself. When we got to the cafe, he paid for everything willingly. (Custy will assume that was because he's siphoned all my money out of the account, but it wasn't!)

I would rather have DH's adoration than have him empty the dishwasher. I could pay a cleaner to do that. I don't want us to blokey equals, like flatmates. I want him to be protective, adoring and romantic. Off his own back.

Lots of you might have marriages like that anyway, and good for you! Mine wasn't. I fought for 50% of everything and we were competitive. Now we are not. You might not want a marriage like that! Again, it's up to you.

I can't explain it. You'd have to read he book, or try a few bits yourself. I'm sure I'm being unconvincing.

It's like... You have been feeding your cat with dog food for years, and he is withdrawn and listless. Then you swap to feeding him cat food and he is suddenly full of energy, vigour and enthusiasm.

It's like... You have been feeding your cat with dog food for years, and he is withdrawn and listless. Then you swap to feeding him cat food and he is suddenly full of energy, vigour and enthusiasm.

so good i'll say it twice! Woah, sorry.

I can beleieve that it works beautiful. I really can. I've discovered the power of positivity and appreciation in my marriage. But I can't do it all the time. I try for civility and partnership. And I expect him to want to do the same for me.

And I love paying for things. I almost always pay for meals - confuses the hell out of the waiter sometimes. That doesn't mean anything. I earn more than he does. So I have the money to spend.

You get your DH's affection hand-holding, sex, kissing, sparkley eyes, compliments. You get his attention he rushes home to tell you stuff, he opens up, he confides in you. You get his protection -- some of you will balk, but he looks after you, carries things to spare you the effort, he would Hoover if it hurt you, Thumbwitch, because he would want to protect you from pain. My DH is HAPPILY helping round the house WITHOUT BEING ASKED.

I get that anyway!
All of it

as does he

Why would you want to be married to someone if they didn't give you all that and vice versa? Surely a marriage is a partnership.

I think the trouble with the book you are reading Beautiful is that it tries to delve into the inner psyche of men and women which riles women beyond belief (in that there is often almost accepted assumption that men hard wired to be knobs).

Applied Behaviour Analysis doesn't do this.It does not do 'mental' stuff. It does not dwell on thoughts and feelings and natural characteristics.It does not deny that these things exist but as ABA is a science its stance is that they are not measurable and as such it is not fesible to try and quantify or qualify them.

Its emphasis is on measurable changes in behaviour as a result of manipulation of the environment (and we are part of environment.

Ooh i could do you a smashing standard celeration chart measuring how your giving of complements coincides with a decrease in him saying critical or negative things.

And therein would lie your proof that it works.

And I am supposed to be hard at work right now, writing v dry policy paper on how ABA fits in with our SALT service but this is more fun.

I think that a marriage should be a partnership and that we do need to recognise that men just arnt wired the same way as we are.

I think that they sometimes dont always see the wood for the trees and sometimes they do say stuff again and again lie "I have put the washer on" they are not saying for a pat on the back good dog style, but just so we know.

My DH has his jobs, I have mine, we love each other and do not take each other for granted. I am lucky in that he has taken time out from work when both boys were smaller to be with them and me. He know what looking after children entails and loves me for me.

I actually want to point out that what Beautiful is saying is not wrapped up as fLY. FLy is for us people that are crap at the housework and that it doesnt come natural too. One good thing about it is that DH knows what I do and will take over.

I get all that and more!!! And I 'hardly get off my fat pert arse' dp notices when I do things as I leave something that long beforehand that you cannot not notice
If you want to do more than you actually need to, feel free, but I wont be joining you.

The fly thing scares me too, to be honest. It seems very much part of the same stepford thing.

Countess Dracula - I completely agree with you. I also get all that without having to be subservient. I have been wondering what we did right. I'm just very glad I haven't had to think too consciously about how to make it work as it would have killed it for me.

Sorry- what if fly [thick emoticon]

is not if

Beautiful,if this works for you and you and your family are happy then surely there is no need to discuss?

I seem to recall from part of my parenting studies that 'traditional roles' can result in the highest satisfaction levels for couples, PROVIDING that there is mutual respect on BOTH sides and a commitment to maintaining the partnership (understanding that each is necessary to make it work).

So if everything is done on the part of empowering you to take control and responsibility for certain things and not merely as pandering to your husband's needs such that you (or him for that matter) are neglecting yours then does it matter what other people think?

I think it's true that certain men would take advantage of this situation and certain women if the roles were reversed, plus I also think financial decisions should still be dealt with by both. At least you may be asking people to hold a mirror up to their own relationships, as from experience when parents are asked when was the last time you felt appreciated by your OH and reply 'can't remember or a long time ago' when you then ask them when did THEY say something nice the answer tends to be the same.

ohido, check out the good housekeeping threads, it's called Fly Lady. You have to lace up your shoes and shine your sink every day. It's awful stuff.

dittany-was just going to say beautiful sounds a bit brainwashed

I'm sorry this all just sounds weird and manipulative to me

why not just be nice to eachother, respect eachothers' feelings? not because you are expecting a result of some kind but because presumably you love eachother and have entered into a life partnership together and because you respect eachother? all mutual touchy-feely benefits should flow from that surely? whether or not you regularly don an apron

Gemzooks, you do not Have to do anything, you find a routine that suits you. If you are going to critise, then get it right

I'm not claiming to be an expert on the fly lady techniques or philosophy. However when you look at her website, a lot of it is scary 1950s stuff, and the focus is on being an old fashioned housewife, and it has a religious element. I just don't like the tone. If people find it helpful, that's great.