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How the other half lives, what and when you learned

999 replies

tomorrowalready · 23/07/2021 19:36

Reflecting from another thread made me realise it was not until my 20s I found out some people expected to have a private bathroom. I went to university then and shared with another mature student who had been married, divorced and said she found having to share a bathroom with unrelated people unpleasant. I had always taken it for granted as had live in jobs and rented bedsits before. She was a lovely person and also the first person I knew who had a glass of wine every evening and she introduced me to many new things - cooking with garlic, sherry, owning and using a car for shopping for example.

So what did you take for granted that surprised other people you met?

OP posts:
BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 25/07/2021 22:19

@LastSummerHere

It's mind blowing that people in university were shocked that others live in poverty. Didn't you READ as a child??
I agree with this. If you were being privately educated and working towards uni, surely you'd read books, watch plays and films that depict lives other than your own?

I can understand living in a narrow social bubble and not knowing people outside your sphere as a child, but I can't understand being so culturally impoverished that someone going to uni could reach the age of 18 without having a clue that people live inside those terraces/flats/small semis which they occasionally drive past on your way to pony club, or that there are people who live on very little money. I appreciate these stories are pre-internet, but there were plenty of TV dramas, documentaries & films that depict normal working class life.

Ddot · 25/07/2021 22:20

I went to a pizza place in the 80s and u got dried herbs in a shaker 🤢

masterblaster · 25/07/2021 22:26

I think this comes down to “if you are in a situation that is rough enough to do this... no-one cares”.

Vulgarlady · 25/07/2021 22:39

I thought my best friend was rich as she had all the latest toys and new ( proper) trainers. She lived a a tiny (but very pretty) terraced house. Her dad was a painter and decorator and her mum was a sahm. Conversely, I thought we were poor as I very rarely had new clothes, hardly any toys and never had money for the tuck shop like her. My dad was a solicitor and we lived in a detached house ( not massive though). So my thoughts were all skewed about rich and poor for most of my childhood. Looking back, we were both privileged though. My eyes were opened when I worked on a farm as a student. Then I met the rural poor.

ScrollingLeaves · 25/07/2021 22:40

Caffeinefirst
Re: “supper”
“To my ears sounded pretentious and ridiculously posh. Which is strange because it’s just a word but to me supper was your cup of cocoa and digestive biscuit before bed.“

This use of supper has crept in.
Dinner was the main meal of the day ( at lunch time for some, night for others) supper was a small meal or snack before going to bed or late night after the theatre, or a child’s evening meal because they had their main one at lunch.
You can still see this description in some dictionaries.

lboogy · 25/07/2021 22:48

I grew up in London in the late 80s. Lived in a council house. 1991 we moved to London suburbs to a house. I had no idea there was so
Much green space, that gardens existed and ppl eat real ham and butter.

thisisnotmyllama · 25/07/2021 22:55

@ScrollingLeaves

Caffeinefirst Re: “supper” “To my ears sounded pretentious and ridiculously posh. Which is strange because it’s just a word but to me supper was your cup of cocoa and digestive biscuit before bed.“

This use of supper has crept in.
Dinner was the main meal of the day ( at lunch time for some, night for others) supper was a small meal or snack before going to bed or late night after the theatre, or a child’s evening meal because they had their main one at lunch.
You can still see this description in some dictionaries.

Supper always has been and still is, to me, a (usually light) bedtime snack. The word encapsulates both the timing and the size of the meal.

I’m not sure which meaning you’re saying has ‘crept in’ - this, or ‘supper’ meaning the main evening meal? My usage of the terms ‘lunch’, ‘dinner’ and ‘tea’ are irretrievably all over the place because I’ve lived in many different parts of the UK and this tends to be a regional difference. But ‘supper’ for the main evening meal is a class difference. I was in my late 20s or early 30s before I heard anyone use the word that way.

ScrollingLeaves · 25/07/2021 22:58

“Arsebucket

ravenmum
I remember applying for a grant when I was in school that would enable me to go on an art course. There was an interview, and the interviewers asked me questions to see how interested I was in art. They asked if I ever went up to London to go to the art galleries. I said no, confused, and thought afterwards that it must have been the wrong answer, as I failed the interview. When I mentioned it to my mum she pointed out that the interviewers simply had no idea why I was applying for a grant ... they couldn't imagine not having the money to pop up to London for the day. And I had no idea why they were asking, as it was so obvious to me! Total culture clash.”

@ravenmum I had the same!

I didn’t get in to art college when I tried at 19.
They asked what was the last art exhibition I’d been to. i’d never been to one.

I worked 7 days a week to keep a roof over my head and to be able to save to go to college and buy art materials. By parents certainly didn’t have the time or inclination when I was a child to take be to see art.

My portfolio was crap because it was all on cheap, crap paper, cheapest materials. Other people turned up with oil painted canvases.

The tutors laughed in my face sad“

This is so upsetting.
Even in general life it is more or less impossibly difficult for people who live in different parts of the country to get to big London exhibitions. The train fairs cost far too much. I am now living in a place which means it is rare to be able to do this and I am not young or poor.

Then another thing is that schools don’t take their children to whatever local art exhibitions are on nearly enough if at all right from primary school age.

The internet helps now but you would still need someone guiding you in some way I think. I don’t think art is seen as part of general education either if people don’t study it for A level and even then may miss out on history of art or being shown modern art.

I also think decent art materials matter but know schools won’t be able to make a priority of this or even think it is important probably.

I had privileged you both didn’t both through the accident of birth into that milieu and where I lived. I hope you did follow your art somehow in spite of what happened.

NumberTheory · 25/07/2021 23:24

@Hen2018

Just to comment on the Operation Raleigh post on the previous page - if you’re not from a wealthy family, you don’t have to fundraiser £2000.

My son had to raise £800 for his VSO. What crippled me was having to fund the trains to his training (up North) and to Heathrow. That was reimbursed but my fellow paupers know that isn’t helpful if you haven’t got it in the first place.

Tbh, I can't remember the exact figures from when I was looking at it in the 80s. 2k is what I recall but it was a long time ago. I know it seemed totally unachievable. Maybe they put more support in place later on? At college I never met anyone who didn't basically just have it paid for by their parents/GPs (and I was nosey about it for a while because I had really wanted to do it and was trying to work out how other people had managed it) so I don't think it was just me who found it out of reach.
SarahJinx · 25/07/2021 23:27

I think also that there is so much buzz around inclusivity right now, which is wonderful but seems to stop at young adults from poorer backgrounds or from deprived socio economic areas. I’ve experienced first hand this desire to recruit inclusively but then wonder why some of the recruits don’t necessary know how they should present themselves (or have been to art galleries) or how to behave in an office environment because it’s just not in their conditioning.

ScrollingLeaves · 25/07/2021 23:41

Many years ago, at the age of six I lived in a country, as a foreigner, where many of the people were extremely poor ( third world level).

I was in the main square alone with my little basket in which I had a coin. It would have been enough for an ice cream cone. I met a boy I was acquainted with but did not know well but we spoke in a friendly way to each other. He was a bit older perhaps nine. I could see how poor he was to my eyes in that he had ragged clothes. I gave him my coin thinking he might like some ice cream.
But not at all, he took us into the church where he solemnly and reverently put it into the collection box. I was so impressed by his goodness.

Twilight7777 · 25/07/2021 23:47

I was very fortunate to live in a 5 bedroom house til the age of 14 when we moved into a really big bungalow with 3 quarters of a acre of land, when I went to uni I really how privileged I was, mum and dad were well off but I wouldn’t say they were rich, I and my brother had student loans. At uni I brought dinner a few times for my halls of resident flatmates, they weren’t poor but they definitely struggled. My mum sent big food parcels every so often so I could share food with flatmates, they really appreciated it, and were thrilled to have the occasional treats with me. I know that might sound like I was being pushy but they loved my mum and her parcels. My mum was born in a council estate so she knew what it was like not to have anything. My mum and dad are divorced, I have been on benefits since the age of 21 (I’m 38 now) as I have had many medical conditions that have gradually made me more disabled as I’ve got older. Fortunately my mum got some money in the divorce and made the choice to pay a third of a part buy bungalow for me. As I would always be stuck in the dingy flat that I had and not have the money to move on. I know how privileged I am.

ScrollingLeaves · 25/07/2021 23:57

@thisisnotmyllama
I am sorry, that was not clear.
I meant the use of “supper” has crept in to mean the main meal of the day eaten at night (instead of “dinner” meaning the main meal of the day, eaten either at night or at lunch time).

Ifeelsuchafool · 26/07/2021 00:35

@Marmitemarinade Grammar schools and means tested free university places and full subsistance grants was how some of my generation made it to university from abject poverty. It was a system regarded as, "elitist" hence the introduction of the Comprehensive education system followed by the introduction of student loans. Shame as it was an escape route for many from that abject poverty.

whattodo2019 · 26/07/2021 00:47

I grew up in a very wealthy family, we had staff, nannies, privately educated, ski holidays, summer holidays abroad .... Most of our friends were from the same background and lifestyle. It wasn't until i went to university that i really met people who went state schools. didn't have an allowance from 'Daddy'...
I was absolutely shocked to see the tiny 2 bedroom council house of a uni friends family of 5 with no carpet, all the family sitting eating supper in their laps as they didn't having a kitchen table...Honestly the list could go on and on....

Shallwegoforawalk · 26/07/2021 00:51

@DaphneDeloresMoorhead

I went to Public then finishing school. Worked in 5* hotels in management for a few years where we could order our dinner from the a la carte menu and stayed in the hotel bedroom when on duty. Then went to work for a fine wine merchant.

The first week responding to calls when I joined the police was rather a shock.

I can imagine Grin
caringcarer · 26/07/2021 01:16

As a child I thought everyone had enough food to eat. When I went to secondary school I made a new friend. She was always hungry. I used to give her my sandwich I did not really want to eat. It was only a few years later she told me she often went hungry. I was honestly shocked and amazed. After that I took extra lunch each day to give her more food. My Mum used to feed her in summer holidays too.

ShowerOfShite · 26/07/2021 02:00

@thisisnotmyllama

I’m another of the ‘never had garlic in the 70s/80s’ brigade.

My parents were a bit older (second marriage) and my DF had grown up in a poor household in south London before the war. His parents worked in factories. My DM was from a slightly better-off family, her dad had a professional job and her mum didn’t work, and my DM was certainly of a university level of intelligence, but being a schoolgirl in the 1940s-50s she was never encouraged to pursue her education and so just went to secretarial college because that was what bright girls did in those days.

My dad was very against ‘foreign muck’ in terms of food. He grew up eating egg & chips, liver & gravy, that sort of thing - a typical English prewar diet - and also had some issues around certain foods, so this is what he continued to eat as an adult. My mum was very open to more adventurous food but it wasn’t worth buying it just for herself (I copied my dad’s fussy eating, as a learned behaviour) and I’m not sure she’d have known what to buy, or even that our local shops would have had those ingredients. I do recall though on one occasion when she’d picked me up from uni at the end of term on her own and we stopped at a Little Chef or something. She asked the waiter for French mustard instead of English. We never, ever had anything but plain Colman’s English mustard at home and I remember thinking ‘How does she know about French mustard? [I barely knew what it was either] OMG my mother is a stranger to me!!’ Grin Seriously it might have been the first time that I perceived her as a separate person with their own unique inner life, rather than just ‘Mum’.

My dad had a particular horror of garlic due to his food issues and having spent time in Italy during his National service. If my mum cooked herself anything ‘smelly’ she had to eat it in another room. She would make a (pretty bland) curry once a week, using curry powder, to use up the leftovers from the Sunday roast (usually chicken, occasionally lamb or pork; never beef as too expensive), which my dad would grudgingly eat but that was as exotic as it got. When spaghetti bolognese first became a thing in the 80s, she would sometimes make it just for herself, but no garlic or Parmesan as they were banned from the house.

At uni I dated someone who put lashings of garlic in his food. I learned to cook a couple of dishes and encouraged my mum to try it. She bought this one bulb of garlic and carried it home like it was prize caviar. She used a couple of cloves, enjoyed the meal and I thought no more about it. But when I went home in the next holidays several months later, she got all excited about the prospect of us cooking with ‘the garlic’ again. That was when I discovered that she’d kept the one precious bulb, untouched apart from the tiny amount we’d used, in a pot on the kitchen windowsill in the sunshine since my last visit.

Obviously it had first sprouted and then gone mouldy. She was furious with me for ‘not telling her’! I think she’d assumed it was like a dried spice and would keep indefinitely. She genuinely hadn’t realised it was a fresh vegetable. I was so embarrassed for her and didn’t know what to say. I’m upset thinking about it even now, thirty years later.

That has made me cry.
supperlover · 26/07/2021 02:05

I was brought up to hold my knife and fork 'properly ' ( not like a pencil). When I was a student nurse I mentioned to a friend that someone didn't hold his knife and fork properly and she thought that I was talking nonsense. Had never heard there was a 'proper' way.

groovergirl · 26/07/2021 02:36

When I started primary school a new, very clean little friend noticed that I never washed my hands after using the toilet or before eating. "Aren't you scared of the germs?" she asked. I'd never heard of the practice, having never been taught even the basics of hygiene. A bath was once a week, using DM's dirty leftover water. No wonder I always had smears all down my legs, and filthy fingernails. Years later, as a smelly, hairy, bleeding 12yo, I found out that other kids had a bath or shower every night. I began daring to sneak a quick shower every second night or morning to keep the filth at bay, but my parents soon found out. My DB recently reminded me of the row that ensued "Wasting all that water!!!" and said he was proud of me for standing my ground.

This was 1970s/80s Sydney, with good plumbing, not a Victorian workhouse.

User1357 · 26/07/2021 02:49

My teen daughter recently said to me and I quote “why do we keep having to eat poor people food like pasta and lasagna”.

I was absolutely flabbergasted. I grew up quite poor but by the time I was late teens my dad’s business took off. I remember my mum once slicing two potato’s into chips for dinner for 3 people because that’s all we had. I also remember walking 6 miles to a relatives house because we had run out of electricity and my mum didn’t have any money for more or to put petrol in the car.

I would say my family is middle class income, live in a four bed, with two cars, holidays etc.
She is going to have a huge shock when she gets into the real world. Unfortunately, I have realised that by giving to my children what I didn’t have, they have become a little entitled.

Just as a side note, she was given a very firm lecture regarding this AND we still eat pasta and lasagna all the time.

Toomuchtrouble4me · 26/07/2021 03:47

My first love aged 18 was a boy from Yorkshire - I was living in London in our small flat with my parents.
When I want to stay with him in his parents detached house, it had a dining room - I thought it was the poshest thing ever to have a separate dining room.
I now realise that our little central London flat was worth considerably more that his parents detached house but at the time I thought it was the poshest thing ever.

sashh · 26/07/2021 05:47

@lalafafa

we moved to a large house when I was in secondary school. When I invited my new friends to my house they couldn't believe I had my own bedroom and had dinner around a table.I never had to ask my mum if thy could stay to eat, she just served them some food. When I went to my new friends I had to sit in another room while they ate, not enough food to feed me.
I was brought up that if a family said, "We are about to have dinner / tea" that meant it was time for you to go home.

It's only just occurred to me that it wasn't just good manners but might be because people didn't have enough food for an extra mouth.

I was also taught that any visitors are offered at least a cup of tea and not just visitors but plumbers, electricians etc.

Earlier this year I had a chair delivered, as part of my disabled students' allowance so it had to be 'set up' for me.

I made the person setting up the chair a coffee, apparently I was the only person to offer a drink the entire day, and I was his last visit.

Clovis123 · 26/07/2021 05:56

At university and beyond people complaining about their parents so much e.g. how awful they were didn’t understand them etc. Yet at the same time accepting them funding them and giving them house deposits etc.

I was brought up the really respect my parents, although my dad didn’t deserve It at all was in and out of prison and always borrowing money from me. It was a long time until I told my uni friends (late 20s) when drunk and frankly I was sick of the petty complaints about their lovely parents! They were actually speechless at my upbringing and for one night at least put their privileged little arses into perspective.

Marmitemarinaded · 26/07/2021 05:58

@Clovis123

At university and beyond people complaining about their parents so much e.g. how awful they were didn’t understand them etc. Yet at the same time accepting them funding them and giving them house deposits etc.

I was brought up the really respect my parents, although my dad didn’t deserve It at all was in and out of prison and always borrowing money from me. It was a long time until I told my uni friends (late 20s) when drunk and frankly I was sick of the petty complaints about their lovely parents! They were actually speechless at my upbringing and for one night at least put their privileged little arses into perspective.

The fact their parents funded them did not necessarily mean they were lovely good parents. Let me assure you of that.
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