How the other half lives, what and when you learned

[tomorrowalready]

Reflecting from another thread made me realise it was not until my 20s I found out some people expected to have a private bathroom. I went to university then and shared with another mature student who had been married, divorced and said she found having to share a bathroom with unrelated people unpleasant. I had always taken it for granted as had live in jobs and rented bedsits before. She was a lovely person and also the first person I knew who had a glass of wine every evening and she introduced me to many new things - cooking with garlic, sherry, owning and using a car for shopping for example.

So what did you take for granted that surprised other people you met?

[quote CrouchEndTiger12]@SwiftlySilverSun sod off to someone telling someone else that oriental referring to a person isn't acceptable.

Racist are you? Oriental is very offensive and pejorative and disparaging but glad to know you'd rather tell people advising of that to sod off.[/quote]
Wouldn't it be more helpful to advise on what should be said? I'd probably say Asian but it's hard to keep up and that's probably offensive this week.

@Notsandwiches

By saying calling someone Asian is probably offensive this week. You just make yourself look like a racist. But embarrassing for you.

Having more than one coat seemed posh to me.

(I’m not sure why people need to feel ‘embarrassed’ for other people who have asked about the word ‘oriental’. They didn’t know and they asked a question. That shouldn’t be embarrassing)

It's mind blowing that people in university were shocked that others live in poverty. Didn't you READ as a child??

I remember applying for a grant when I was in school that would enable me to go on an art course. There was an interview, and the interviewers asked me questions to see how interested I was in art. They asked if I ever went up to London to go to the art galleries. I said no, confused, and thought afterwards that it must have been the wrong answer, as I failed the interview. When I mentioned it to my mum she pointed out that the interviewers simply had no idea why I was applying for a grant ... they couldn't imagine not having the money to pop up to London for the day. And I had no idea why they were asking, as it was so obvious to me! Total culture clash.

@RosesAndHellebores

We are very privileged. We very occasionally have fish and chips - never a takeaway apart from that. If I don't want to cook we eat out and let someone else do the dishes. Or if time/tiredness is of the essence we just have smoked salmon, good bread and a quick salad; or calves liver fried in butter with sage, bought mash and a bought green veg tub for the microwave. Both of which are quicker than waiting for a takeaway and usually slightly cheaper.

I cannot comprehend what is privileged about having a take away.

Seriously? Being able to afford a takeaway is hardly the mark of having great wealth or belonging to the upper classes but you must either have led a very sheltered life or to be incredibly thick if you don't realise that ordering a takeaway is a treat which is beyond the means of many people.

I know someone who pays a bloke to put her Christmas lights up. She's very well off but enjoys her money and is generous with it. If she has more than a few people round for dinner, she gets caterers in.

Another well-off friend has a handbag wardrobe in her huge dressing room. A whole small wardrobe for bags.

A surprising number of people I know have booze fridges. A whole fridge just for booze.

In my mid 40s I returned to education and took a flat on a very tough council estate (since demolished). I was brought up in a so-called respectable working class background and then graduated into a profession. So I had never encountered people who survive entirely on benefit and what they can scrounge.

So it never occurred to me not to pay my rent, to fiddle my electricity meter, smoke weed or to do some of the things many of my neighbours seemed to get up to. It was all a huge culture shock. Part of the culture shock was the fact that some of my "hippy" style new age traveller neighbours spoke received English and appeared to have originated in far more affluent backgrounds than myself. It seems that they had just opted out of the mainstream lifestyle for a combination of benefits and begging outside the opera house.

I lived on the estate for five years and was quite sad when it was demolished and I had to remove to a housing association where people obeyed "rules". I still lok back on it as one of the most carefree times of my life when I too was free of the rat race.

[quote Grellbunt]@tomorrowalready

Yes. I'm actually surprised there isn't more rage manifesting in violence...

YouTube etc is crazy. My boy watches YouTubers who film from mansions with pools etc and already finds it quite envy-inducing, and we are very fortunately situated. Or YouTube kids who smash things up for fun etc - wtf??!!! I can't even imagine what it's like when money is tight. There's also a lot of comparing at school over phones, gadgets etc and that's just a normal state school.[/quote]
Yes that's what I mean Grellbunt. I think it must be hell to be even moderately poor now as even a child who does not have their own smartphone or laptop can see their friends' or at school or rich celebrities reported on TV. 40 odd years ago I know how I suffered and in fact we had much the same as those around us. Now young people see fabulously rich individuals apparantly having a great life and an easy one. And what's more they (celebreties) are continually grasping for more eg having several well paid TV show and advertisements and endorsements so it must seem the thing to aim for as a good life. Another factor is that they (celebs) are at the same time presented as 'ordinary' people who just got lucky so why does it happen to them (younsters) or their families? I mean I see it and I switch off reality/talent/celebrity/endorments/advertising as much as possible. It would have eaten me up inside when I was young.

My father had a hatred of HP etc and always saved up and bought everything outright (70s). Until I left home, I'd no idea what a mortgage or overdraft were and assumed if somebody owned a house or car, that they'd paid for it all, not taken out loans.

I'd say that unconditional love goes a very long way and is a terrific privilege

Couldn't agree more. It should be the right of every child but sadly it's not.

@SurferWoman

Until I was about 20, I assumed that everyone reused 'lucky' unfranked stamps from envelopes by soaking the corner of envelope in a little saucer for ten minutes.

My parents rarely paid for stamps. We all just glued old ones onto new envelopes.

It didn't occur to me that it might be immoral to do this.

We did this! I’d forgotten til now.

Owning books and having bookshelves. It wasn’t until I went to university and was invited to stay at friends’ parents that I realised other houses had shelves full of books that they owned. We went to the library a lot as children, and my mum took us, but the idea of owning books for yourself was alien to us. It wasn’t really the cost of them, but the concept - it was deemed frivolous and a waste of money. However, we were privileged in the sense that other children at school didn’t go to the library at all to get books out to read in the way we did, and that too was surprising to me as a child/teen.

@ravenmum

I remember applying for a grant when I was in school that would enable me to go on an art course. There was an interview, and the interviewers asked me questions to see how interested I was in art. They asked if I ever went up to London to go to the art galleries. I said no, confused, and thought afterwards that it must have been the wrong answer, as I failed the interview. When I mentioned it to my mum she pointed out that the interviewers simply had no idea why I was applying for a grant ... they couldn't imagine not having the money to pop up to London for the day. And I had no idea why they were asking, as it was so obvious to me! Total culture clash.

@ravenmum I had the same!

I didn’t get in to art college when I tried at 19.
They asked what was the last art exhibition I’d been to. i’d never been to one.

I worked 7 days a week to keep a roof over my head and to be able to save to go to college and buy art materials. By parents certainly didn’t have the time or inclination when I was a child to take be to see art.

My portfolio was crap because it was all on cheap, crap paper, cheapest materials. Other people turned up with oil painted canvases.

The tutors laughed in my face

@cariadlet I'm sorry, that wasn't the point I was making. Of course I understand a takeaway is beyond the means of many people. I just don't perceive it as a treat.

I cannot comprehend what is privileged about having a take away.

It's not the take away per se, but having the option to get one if you want. You have the greater privilege of going out for a meal because you want to.

Or if time/tiredness is of the essence we just have smoked salmon, good bread and a quick salad; or calves liver fried in butter with sage, bought mash and a bought green veg tub for the microwave. Both of which are quicker than waiting for a takeaway and usually slightly cheaper.

Actually salad is a luxury if you cannot afford to run a fridge or you don't have a fridge. Butter another thing many people cannot afford as is bought mash.

@RosesAndHellebores I would say although you may not see a takeaway as a treat, I imagine you can understand the privilege of choice.

If you are living on a tight budget and having continually to plan and cook accordingly, being able to choose an alternative on a whim is a luxury.

Seeing the absolute saturation of takeaway restaurants around the UK, you must realise many people are big fans.

I don't understand the appeal of big flash cars, I could afford one, but they don't appeal. The real luxury is that I can choose rather than contend with the cheapest available option or have no car at all.

For me it was having a female HR manager who I reported to.
She had a total lack of empathy for working mothers. She was one. Worked from home Monday and Friday whilst banning everyone else from doing it. Had a full time live out nanny who also were contracted to work every Saturday evening. I once had a conversation where she told me her dh was on a golfing weekend so she was going to centre parcs so the kids could go in the childcare. Skiing holidays with wraparound kids care, etc etc.

The tutors laughed in my face

Fucking bastards.

One of the things I have realised as I grew up is not just how different my experiences as a child were from the middle class people I knew, but that not only did they have no idea of what life was like for people who are poor, but they have no idea that they have no idea. Even though most of my friends were self-identified lefties who saw themselves as on the side of the poor.

It's not the take away per se, but having the option to get one if you want

And lots of people live in areas where the shops don't sell smoked salmon or calves liver...

I cannot comprehend what is privileged about having a take away.

They are extremely expensive. Many families cannot spend that on one meal. What £20 for a family of 4 for a takeaway at least.

I worked from the age of 12 (local corner shop, paper round, baby-sitting) and worked during the year between getting a place at a posh university and going there (office work, shop work, fruit-picking, child-minding during the summer holidays). I loved my first term and made some good friends who asked me if I'd like to go to India on holiday with them over the winter break. I couldn't: I'd got a job in a supermarket over the Christmas rush. It was the first time it occurred to me that I might be the only person in my college who had to work during the holidays.

This thread is really interesting to see what people think is posh or not.
The only posh people I knew growing up didn’t give a rats about money, etc. They are an old titled family. The children lived in holey jumpers and scuffed old shoes, just like us and we used to have the best fun climbing trees, playing hide and seek in their castle, etc. They never once commented on our council house or the fact we only had one loo, drank cheap squash, etc. Their parents didn’t care either. The main things I remember about the being posh were the way they spoke - not just their accents, but their confidence, and all this assumed knowledge that comes with hundreds of years of privilege.
On the other hand, we also wealthy people who went on expensive foreign holidays, had pools, ate at expensive restaurants, had fancy cars, etc. I would never have considered them posh, but they had lots of money and nice lifestyles. I probably aspired to be like them when I was young - they all seemed so glamorous, but now it just makes me shudder a bit.

@squishymamma

I went on a trip around Asia and spent a week or so visiting a friend I'd met at uni that was originally from Hong Kong. They lived in a flat but in a very affluent area. I remember being shocked that they had a house helper that lived in their flat, in her own little set of rooms! We could get our own food from the kitchen but often my friend would just ask their helper to do it, she would make all the meals and set out stuff for breakfast every morning, my dirty laundry magically disappeared and turned up again neatly folded on my bed...it was incredibly strange for me and felt weirdly like an invasion of privacy.

They also had a cook come and make them dinner 2 days a week!

I had a privileged upbringing but we always had to pull our weight in terms of housework and we'd often hear "go make your own food, I'm not your personal chef"

To be fair, this is still normal practice in many places in the Far East and doesn’t necessarily imply enormous wealth, just ‘comfortable’. I spent a few years living in China (mainland not HK) and literally every ‘expat’ family and most of the even slightly wealthy local families had an ‘ayi’ (a helper of the kind you describe). I tried valiantly to avoid it for myself because, like you, I found it intrusive, but in the end I had to crack because there was no other way to get childcare! Mums simply don’t babysit for one another there, because ‘everyone’ has an ayi. Prior to my having one, I used to get such eye-rolls from other mums whenever I couldn’t go to something for childcare reasons. It’s also super useful if you want your kids to become bilingual!

In the city where I lived, it wasn’t the norm for your ayi to be live-in (some were, but that really was reserved for the wealthiest households). However in HK they have to be live-in by law, not sure why but I know that’s the case. I would have hated that tbh, and it was one of the things that put me off the idea of ever moving there, when that was briefly on the cards for us. I could only handle having a part-time ayi who came for a few hours, two or three times a week to babysit, and clean & iron while she was there (because that’s what the job is - nanny and housekeeper in one). I never let her cook, or organise my cupboards or anything like that, though I knew people who did.

Obviously the contrast between this level of privilege and the appalling poverty in China (even in the same city) is terrible, but it’s certainly not viewed in the same way that having ‘help’ is seen in the UK or elsewhere in the west. I thought this when I first arrived there and was roundly castigated for expressing distaste that someone had ‘servants’. And tbh, where we lived at least, most people did treat their ayi as almost a member of their family. The word literally means ‘auntie’ because traditionally it would be an older female relative who would perform this role.

@LastSummerHere

It's mind blowing that people in university were shocked that others live in poverty. Didn't you READ as a child??

I was going to say something like that about the information available through TV, books, films, the Internet but felt it might be a bit goady. I suppose we all only take note of what is relevant to our own lives and avoid what we can't do anything about.

When I was younger I preferred books and films that I did not identify with as it was too depressing to contemplate my circumstances in written form. Though I do remember a series called The Family From ONe End Street, very like my family. Then I graduated to the Eng Lit Classics from Jane Austen to Virginia Woolf which were ascribed universalty but to me escaped my own particularity. It was strange as a teenager reading V Woolf's essays knowing she would have despised me as a working class upstart but still gaining so much.