To want to settle a generation gap argument: older (female) relative is saying women had to give up work when they got married?

[Winnabella]

Got an older female relative (aunt) who gave up work when she married my uncle (now passed away). They got married in 1964. My parents got married in 1970 and my mum carried on working. My grandmother carried on working until she was in her late 70s. But my aunt goes on about how it 'wasn't acceptable' to carry on working after getting married. She's not done too badly being a SAHM but does go on a bit about the sacrifices she made. She had a cleaner and a housekeeper to do the housework and she and my uncle had 2 children. My cousins often joke about how they had to wear their pyjamas for two weeks. My aunt came round on Sunday and she went on and on about the job she did just before she got married. It is a bit like she's been stuck in time - this was nearly 50 years ago now. Was it the case that women were frowned upon in the 1960s for working if they got married; and how come my mother and grandmother seemed to hold down jobs (my mum part time after I was born and before I started school)

@Cookerhood

Although MIL isn't quite so chuffed because DD3 (8 yo) joined the conversation and asked MIL if she remembered Queen Victoria and if it was exciting when electricity was invented When I was about the same age I asked DM if she trained with Florence Nightingale

The joys of children!!

Morning, everyone. We're going to move this thread to Classics now.

Excellent, thank you!

Not wishing to minimise the struggles of women in any way, but I was surprised to discover that HSBC bank did not allow MEN to marry for 10 years after appointment in the 1930's. These were junior men who had to be willing to be posted overseas, and the bank did not want the expense/responsibility of finding housing to accommodate wives (and possibly children). I have the proper bibliographic references if anyone wants them.

Likewise my army officer DF was not allowed to marry until the age of 25 in the 1960s. To be precise they couldn’t legally prevent him, but they weren’t allowed access to married officers’ housing and allowances until they were 25, they had to live in single men’s accommodation or pay for private accommodation elsewhere.

@YesThisIsMe

Likewise my army officer DF was not allowed to marry until the age of 25 in the 1960s. To be precise they couldn’t legally prevent him, but they weren’t allowed access to married officers’ housing and allowances until they were 25, they had to live in single men’s accommodation or pay for private accommodation elsewhere.

So likewise in the sense of - "didn't get the perks of being a married officer" rather than likewise in the sense of - "got fired"?

@gameofphones My DF and his friends were subject to a marriage ban, too! They worked for Jardine Matheson in Hong Kong in the 50s and 60s. The company barred its male employees from marrying before age 25, the reason being that JM provided accommodation and there was a shortage of habitable buildings after the war. If the boys wanted to marry earlier they had to leave the company.

JM also banned the male employees from "fraternising" with Chinese women. If anyone was found to have a Chinese girlfriend he'd be disciplined and posted to the Yokohama office to cool off. Most UK firms in HK were strictly against fraternisation. They didn't want their boys sexually exploiting the local girls and giving the firm a bad reputation.

“Likewise” in the sense of “another example of restrictions placed by their employer on men getting married”.

It’s a bit more than not getting a perk though. Underaged husbands had to live separately from their wife or rent full priced private sector accommodation from pay levels which were set based on the assumption of subsidised accommodation. It was a big deal for those officers who didn’t have an independent income and actually had to live on their pay .

@YesThisIsMe

“Likewise” in the sense of “another example of restrictions placed by their employer on men getting married”.

It’s a bit more than not getting a perk though. Underaged husbands had to live separately from their wife or rent full priced private sector accommodation from pay levels which were set based on the assumption of subsidised accommodation. It was a big deal for those officers who didn’t have an independent income and actually had to live on their pay .

At the time, married women in the forces (who didn't get paid more than their male counterparts) didn't get married accommodation at all in their own right, however old they were.

To post a "it happened to a few guys too" story on a thread highlighting how women were structurally disadvantaged is a bit pathetic. There is a thread about what work used to be like where it might be more appropriate.

Absolutely not trying to do a whataboutthemenz - just reminded of those rules by the PP talking about a related case. Tangentially relevant to this thread I’d have thought because employment rules forbidding men to marry come from the same place as married women’s work prohibitions: the basic patriarchal assumption that married women are the responsibility/possession of their husbands and by implication of their husbands’ employers.

My grandmother got married in 1962 and hadmy mother in 1963, she has always told me the same thing. She was training to be a nurse but got pregnant, she kept it under wraps and finished her training then had to leave.

She did go on to work running news agents alongside my grandfather but that was much later.

My grandparents bought a nursery in the late 40s. They grew tomatoes and cucumber,they then rented a shop as well and sold fruit veg and flowers and my nan became a florist as well

My grandparents bought a nursery in the late 40s.
Well obviously if you are your own boss, you set the rules! What most people are talking about here are women being obliged by their employers to give up work.

My mum was a teacher when my brother was born in 1975. She took the 6 weeks maternity leave and got her mum to come and stay so she could go back to work for the rest of the summer term and so get paid until the end if August. Then she had to stop work and didn't start again until I started school in the early 80s. She was lucky to make friends with another mum who looked after me and my brother after school until she got back from her teaching job in another school.

Her sister, in France, had a baby in the same year, had a short maternity leave and then went back to full time work as there was state funded nursery. For years France had far better childcare provision and it is still an awful lot cheaper than in the UK. I'm not sure if it's made any difference to the gender pay gap or sexism in business though, they have never had a female president after all!

I had my two children in the early seventies then started teaching in '75. Both of mine went to a state nursery in the northern city we lived in. When they started schools they went to childminders after school. We were lucky to have the excellent state nursery, but there were also plenty of childminders.

My DM took up a teaching post in 1972. She was most definitely married and had a baby a few weeks old.The baby was left with a neighbour (a sahm) who agreed to look after the baby (DM did pay her) There were no day nurseries or registered childminders available, so it was a case of asking around to find someone willing to look after your child while you worked.

From what I understand my grandmothers generation gave up work when they become pregnant, not when they married (teachers/nurses)

You didn't have to give up work but a lot of men wanted wives to give up work on marriage. I was born 1972. DM gave up work to have me. Civil servant so could have gone back but chose not to.

No maternity rights at that time. Sex discrimination act came into force 1975 prohibited discrimination on grounds of marital status so after that not employing married women wasn't permitted anymore.

Some companies did have a policy though. What was true for your mother was not true for mine.

Some stories from my other from 1979 - she retired last year after 48 years in teaching. She had a headteacher who tried to force her out after she had me and later in 1981 my DB. For childcare she had....my Dad who was a teacher but became a supply teacher/lorry driver when I was born - he worked nights. We grew up in a coal mining town so most women didn't work outside the home when they got married and had DC - those that did had jobs rather than careers.

So the local midwives when doing antenatal classes actually got his permission and showed prospective parents, my Dad, doing the housework with me in a sling as Exhibit A.

Yes, my grandmother gave up her secretarial job when she was married. She actually put off getting married for as long as she could because she knew she'd have to! She was gutted. She never had a "proper" job again. She raised three boys and did cleaning jobs instead.

Makes me sad to think of her skills being wasted like that. She was so proud to have worked for the company.

My mum had to give up work when she was 26wks pregnant in the seventies. To be fair though, she was hospitalised with HG for most of her pregnancy and then beyond as I was a tiny jaundiced scrap and wasn't allowed home until I was 5lbs. Poor mum!