Awkward (and other) questions about MNers jobs-following on from *Pinocchio's 1st thread.

[mignonette]

Following on from this thread by Pinocchio -

"I thought this would be a good way for us to get answers to those awkward questions we would never dream of asking someone to their face in their place of work.

These are questions relating to my life that i would love honest answers to.

Hairdressers - When someone with bad dandruff/psoriasis sits on your chair, do you shrug it off, or do you quickly have a look to make sure it's not lice? Are you able to tell the difference right away or does it need investigating? And do you really want to know what my plans are for the day, or would you rather work in silence?

Teachers - do you get annoyed when parents write in homework diaries that a specific piece of homework was too tricky for their child? Do you take it as an insult to your teaching skills?

Waiter/waitresses - do you expect people to offer to clean up their children's mess before they leave, or do you just shrug it off as part of the job? If you're busy and haven't had chance to clean a table yet, and a new customer came up and asked for a cloth to clean it, would you be offended?

I'm a trainee SLT so not quite sure if I'm qualified to answer any questions regarding that line of work yet.

But i have experience working in a Subway sandwich store, a library, a gym and as a cleaner. So i can answer any cleaning, book or sandwich questions that are burning away inside you all"

Pinocchio I hope you don't mind me C+Ping your original post but wanted you to have the credit for this follow on as is such a great thread!

What do you do now, Szeli, if that's not too nosey?

Still makeup mostly

Szeli I am all ears for tales from the model agency! How much pressure was there on models to lose weight and would the agency be truly proactive if it was suspected that a model was using unhealthy or dangerous methods to lose and maintain low weight? Or if the model was able to work, would it be ignored?

Did you get any designer freebies? Did you work with any famous models (if you can say that without outing yourself)? I imagine it must have been a very high pressure job.

Who was and is your favourite model? I love Arizona Muse, Raquel Zimmerman, Helena Christansen and Kate Moss.

Urgh I found it pretty boring, bottom of the rung me but yes we encouraged models to lose weight; recommended sensible ways to do so, reiterated that eating disorders usually have side affects that would make them less bookable; hair loss, rotting teeth, bad skin etc the pressure was only there if they were too 'fat', we'd take measurements and often wouldn't take people on that weren't within the required 'range' (for Milan mostly) similarly we had to warn men and women to not to do too much weight training or they'd be at risk of becoming body models rather than fashion models.

We had a lot of mums on speed dial as most new models are on the younger side and a lot would be discussed with them too, our office was very much open to parents as if they weren't happy we might have lost a model making us good money.

I personally didnt get any freebies but the agent did (jealous) I'd take the calls for the freebies and invites and say yes to the stuff I fancied then they'd come thru and the agent would say yes or no and I'd never get a look in :(

In all honestly I'm not up on current models and fashion trends, not even sure how I landed the job! I tend to veer towards the edgy however and think a model only looks good in the right context; I'm all for very strong sharp features, I believe softer faces belong in commercial campaigns

Sorry if this has been asked (I'm catching up reading) but I was wondering, what do women with quite physical jobs that carry the risk of violence (nurse, doctor, care worker etc) do when they are pregnant? I know you'll have an assessment but does it affect your job a lot? Did you ever feel frightened about being pregnant in your job?

Andy We would use risk assessment regarding risk from clients, visitors and families and not send pregnant CPN's out on certain home visits. However you cannot eliminate it.

A pregnant colleague of mine was kicked to the floor whilst she was doing the ward drugs round. Why? A visitor asked her to to do something and she replied politely that she wasn't able to leave the drugs trolley but would ask a colleague to help him. He lost the plot and attacked her. She pulled her alarm and only a few nurses responded. She was so furious that she threw her ID badge across the staffroom and quit on the spot. I do not blamer her. She did not feel safe. The Trust managers refused to support a prosecution. This happened several years ago and things have been tightened up since then.

Generally if it not safe for a pregnant woman, it is not safe for anyone re mental health and we would nurse 2:1 or pair up for home visits (DVs). We shouldn't be lifting anyway so that is not an issue.

My areas of professional knowledge are

1. Baking/Patisserie/Cake decorating as I used to be a patissier
2. Hospitality Management
3. Wine (used to work for a fine wine merchant)
4. Police and the process of a criminal trial in particular

Hard My daughter is training to be a patissiere. What words of advice would you give to here re developing her experience? She desperately wants to do a stage at Momofuku Milk Bar under Christina Tosi. Anywhere/anything else you'd recommend? also what product ranges are best?

How old is she and where is she training ? I would recommend a large London hotel for a one-stop shop where she will be able to get experience in most aspects of patisserie and maybe some time in a good restaurant although she should expect to be given all the crap jobs (like separating a box of eggs - and by that I mean a box of trays of 36 eggs !). Pierre Herme is, of course, the stage to beat all stages but fiercely competitive to get, they have applicants from all around the world.
If you can afford it, the Eddie Spence royal icing course at Squire's Kitchen would be an excellent investment if they don't cover that sort of work on her course. If I remember rightly it's about £450 for 3 days but you do have to have good intermediate skills.

Can you just clarify what you mean by "which product ranges do you recommend" ?

And words of advice, this is the advice I would give the 20 year old me that was just starting out from college..
If you find yourself getting bored after a couple of years in one place, it's not your vocation that you're bored of. You've just got everything you can out of the hotel. It's time to move on, not change direction.
Keep on the move in your early career - once you've learnt all they can teach you, move on. Gain as much experience in as many different techniques and styles as you can, this will add weight to your CV and your earning potential. Get into a michelin kitchen as quickly as you can, while you're young. Cane it while you are young. Relaxation and a 6-3 weekday schedule can come later.

oh and finally, brush up your french. If you're going into patisserie you'll be working with a lot of French people. You'll find it useful

Thanks mignonette. I think the fact it was a visitor makes it even more shocking. I didn't even think of the risk of visitors for nurses

HardFaced... Thank you for those posts. Very helpful. One of her tutors is ex Savoy so that is one contact. I will C+P your posts and email them to her.

She is mid twenties and training within 40 miles of London. Her course and tutors are very highly thought of in the industry. She is very very hard working and will not give up on a technique until she has mastered it. She bakes for a regional tea shop chain to earn money and has earned respect and an offer of development chef after grad but she wants to spread her wings and gain experience first.

I want to buy her some useful kit for Christmas (she has knives/decorating tools/basic patisserie stuff) and wondered if you could recommend pans or other useful items? I bought her some bread pans and Mermaid sandwich tins last year so anything else she might need and may not have thought of?

I have been teaching her French. She did GCSE at school but I'm brushing up her skills and making sure she understands all the terminology. Pierre Herme would be a dream of a place to stage at.

Oooh, can I ask you another question mignonette? If I wanted to become a nurse and was leaning towards doing mental health nursing, would you say that following that path of nursing runs the risk of triggering my own mental illness off again? Do your or any of your colleagues (that you know of) work successfully in MH despite their own problems? Hope that's not crossing into too awkward a question!

Hmmm... kit.. well, in a commercial kitchen pastry chefs are always known by our blunt knives ;D To be honest, as a working pastry chef you don't need much in the way of kit. All I owned when I worked professionally was a few knives, my steel and that was about it.

Depending on how much you want to spend, some ideas for useful gifts would be

1. Those lakeland oven gloves (the knitted ones)
2. A good quality, long silicone rolling pin that she can save for fondant/marzipan as they scratch easily with general use
3. A sugar thermometer
4. A kitchenaid depending on how much money you want to spend.
5. A roll of acetate
6. Fabric piping bags
7. Nozzles are always welcome, you can't have too many (number 1, 1.5, 2 and 6 being the most used for me)
8. Something which she will find very useful in the future (for those personal bits of kit which you don't want to end up nicked) is a workman's toolbox with padlock.
9. Knives - Victorinox long serrated, bendy, pointed rosewood handled knife. Blade 30cm I think - the patissier's friend !! A long cranked palette knife, also victorinox. A large chopping knife. And finally a round ended victorinox tomato knife x 2 or 3. Those are all the knives you need.
10. Silpat mats

This is the long serrated knife I mean here although that one is plastic handled.

yay here it is

The general advice is to have a couple of years of symptom free or stability in your MH Andy before being accepted onto a training course.

I would advise maybe working in MH as a nursing assistant or with one of the MH charities for a while to see if it suits you. Also the conditions of entry will require evidence of recent study plus experience paid or not in a related field. These related fields are very broad and more concerned with experience working with people.

Yes it is a stressful job and may not be the best choice for people with a very serious mental health problem that relapses and remits. However I know many MH nurses who have depression and anxiety either predisposing the job or as a result of it. I have been treated for reactive Depression of a mild to medium level. I continued to work but I was not seriously unwell. I have worked with nurses who I believe to have personality disorders too. That can be more challenging because it can make managing your emotions and reactions to others much harder.

If you declared an illness at interview you would go through the occupational health assessment and a decision would be made by them regarding fitness to train and work. Yes your illness could be triggered by the stress of the job but it would not be right to say that is a definite. Neither would you need to work in the higher stress specialities nor full time. The training is stressful though, I cannot deny but there could be strategies in place to assist you.

There are a lot of people working in MH and substance misuse especially who are former or actual service users. Many former substance misusers go onto have very successful careers in the field without relapsing into using drugs again.

I would think that your experiences can make you an especially sensitive MH professional used wisely and with regard to your own well being too and I would have no qualms about working alongside a nurse who had had MH problems.

Thank you Hard. I have C+Ped your advice into an email to my DD. She will appreciate it.

is it Westminster Kingsway college ? Their course is reputed to be the dogs doohdah's

I did the Academie Culinaire competition there one year and have fond/hideous memories of it. You were supposed to have at least 1 year's experience, my Head Chef pushed me into it when I'd only been working for about 6 months and it was pretty scary !!!! I remember having to make a pithivier from scratch, including the puff pastry and a croquembouche

it's a pleasure, Mignonette. I used to love teaching apprentices, I love passing my skills and experience on to others. If I'd stayed in hospitality my intention was to go into teaching when I got older and no longer fancied the heat and hustle of the kitchen :)

I'm an aircraft engineer, I've worked on commercial, military and private aircraft if anyone has any questions

Thank you for the detailed reply mignonette. Very much appreciated! My MH problem is OCD so I do worry that the fact it can be triggered by stress means the Occupational Health people might not want to risk having me on the course :( Can I be cheeky and ask another question that takes advantage of your knowledge a bit? I'm not currently seen by any MH professionals (after a year with a peri natal team and CBT which ended because my time was up) but since that ended I've been working on it alone applying what I learned and its working and I feel positive that I'm getting to a point where "normal" living (for lack of a better word) is going to be possible (that's why I'm finally able to look at having a career ). How would I go about having it on my medical record that the OCD is under control so that when/if I do apply to the course, the Occupational Health people can see that its not an active problem? I'm wary of the fact that I could have it under control for the next few years but then a lack of update on my medical notes could mean they don't believe me!

I would advise speaking to your doctor about this and contacting the MH team that treated you for clarification. If you were discharged then the CMHT would have closed your care spell and this would be communicated to anybody enquiring about your status.

Keeping a record of what you have been doing to keep on top of it is always useful-remember your CBT homework? Think of keeping very brief notes on your own work. These can be shown to occupational health. Evidence that you have worked on relapse awareness and know your triggers all counts.

The biggest evidence of recovery is recovery. Not needing to use the services whilst living a productive and content life is proof in itself so don't be disheartened.

Quite a few jobs actually ask for applications from actual or former service users. I can think of one in a former trust I worked for in access to psychological therapies where employees are trained to deliver low level CBT. They ask for former service users. That kind of employment would be ideall as a way in to MH professions. Indeed it may be enough for you and so interesting that actually nurse training is not so important.

Well done on all the hard work in managing and overcoming your OCD . I know just how hard you must have worked Andy. Good for you!

andys when I worked in care/SN schools I was moved to less volatile locations when pg and didn't work with specific people. I also didn't lift. When I worked for social services I would double up more often for home visits potentially volatile visitors but did a lot of phone duty so got my fair share of being sworn at.