Campaign to end Bounty sales reps' access to maternity wards - please read and share

[JustineMumsnet]

Evening all,

Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to fill in our survey on Bounty and share your stories - from the initial idea onwards, this really is a campaign that has been prompted by your concerns, as posted on Mumsnet.

The survey showed that a very large majority (82%) felt it was unacceptable for Bounty sales reps to be on hospital wards, as well as highlighting a number of other concerns about Bounty reps' selling practices, so we're calling on government to end this kind of direct selling/data collecting on NHS wards. See more here.

It's clear, from the survey results, that, even after Bounty updated its code of conduct (these results only include users who gave birth from May 2012 - the full results containing prior data are here) its practices leave a lot to be desired, and that Mumsnet users feel very strongly that the maternity ward is no place for a hard sell, so we're really hoping that government will listen to us.

Here's how you can help...

Please sign the petition

If you're on Twitter please tweet your support for the campaign with the hashtag #bountymutiny and the following link:

tiny.mn/1bsnpNw

If you're on Facebook then please like campaign page our campaign page (there's a FB link to click at the top on the left).

If you're on Google+, well, you'll know what to do.

We'll, of course, keep you posted here about the campaign and any developments. Thanks to everyone for their stories, honesty and input. Here's hoping we can make a difference!

Apart from handing out crap freebies they also hand out crap advice, try this sample:

Bounty advice on appliance cords: "tuck them under carpets"

London Fire Brigade advice: "Don't run leads or cables under carpets or rugs ? you won't be able to see if they become damaged."

Bounty is one seriously unprofessional outfit!
www.bounty.com/toddler/homes/babyproofing-your-home
www.london-fire.gov.uk/ElectricalEquipment.asp

IsThisAGoodIdea -

Why is it my responsibility to have to prepare myself for a visit from Bounty?

While I am in hospital, I am there to be cared for by medical staff. I am not there to provide a captive audience for a profit making company.

If Bounty want to set up a stall, fine. But opening curtains during feeds? Interrupting babies' sleep? Approaching women who are still drugged up? No.

Didn't Terry Christian have a bit of a rant about the reps using the word shisters how do you spell it?

Has anyone used the No Bounty on their birthplan found it works?

The loss of privacy on a ward when you're tired, half dressed, leaky, sore and emotional is bad enough, but I'd like to think that I was being protected and secure while I get myself together. I do not like being served up as a pliable soft touch for a marketing company just because they pay for access to me when I'm in a vulnerable state.

I think the boundaries are blurred by the first bag being handed over by the midwife. I'm pretty sceptical about marketing stuff but I genuinely thought that there would be info in the second pack that I would need, (well, why else would the MW tell me about collecting them), but luckily found the MN thread first.

I totally get that some people want the bags of crap bags and photos but approaching new mums so soon after birth is totally unacceptable. Give the reps a space in the day room or leave contact forms by the beds.

For the record I'm a big girl and totally capable of standing up for myself in a normal situation, but the early stages post birth are not normal.

talking of crap advice - we got the 6months to toddler years "magazine" (which says week-by-week guide on the front, but is month-by-month inside), and it advocates purees etc primarily , even though the current NHS guidelines prefer BLW and finger foods.

I gave birth 9 weeks ago and was thoroughly pestered by the lovely bounty lady. She wasn't rude or aggressive but she was very persistent. When you're tired, torn and bleeding your tolerance for being pestered is low. And she kept on coming back, she interrupted when I was finally speaking to a HCP, she came back when my OH had bought my eldest in, when I was trying to breastfeed... over and over. She wore me down and I gave in, as others have said if I had been more with it I wouldn't have. Then to top it off she deleted the 1 decent photo she took! And I was told repeatedly by midwives and reps that the bounty pack "contained the forms to claim CB" I thought it was odd that was the only way to get them but didn't question it, I was positively paranoid we would lose the forms and not be able to claim it! Ultimately though I'm most annoyed that the father of my baby isn't allowed on the ward because he disturbs other mothers but a sales rep is allowed to walk around disturbing everyone. Seemingly a lot of women want the reps there so we all have to put up with them. I want my OH to be there, so everyone should put up with him, right? And he wouldn't even be swanning around interrupting your conversations and selling on your personal details

good campaign chaps. Kick'em out.

Can I remind everyone to make this local. I have raised this with my local hospital's patient maternity committee, and they are going to raise this at their next meeting. I believe this change might only happen at a local not national level.

EPIC POST ALERT

When DS was born with Complex Special Needs, he was whisked out of my arms and rushed off to SCBU, I screamed at DH to go with him and to not leave his side whilst I was left to get cleaned up, showered, dressed alone and crying, confused and upset as to what had just happened.

I found all of my new baby's outfit and belongings that I had laid out, and my own personal possessions had been stuffed into a bag, and put in a side room on my return to the maternity ward after showering.

All I knew was that my baby had serious complications (non of which we knew about pre birth) and was in SCBU, hopefully with DH. I sat on my bed, crying and shaking until a Midwife came to get me and wheel me round to SCBU. I couldn't stay, I couldn't bear seeing him. But I forced myself to, with DH and refused to leave his side, day in day out, unless expressing BM for him.

The first time the Bounty rep came (a day after I had given birth I think) she asked where my baby was. Cheery as you like. I told her. She said of, what a 'shame', and that she'd come back at a 'more convenient time'........

She came back around lunch that day and left a pack on my bed. I was of course in SCBU with Nemo (our DS's Nick Name, our little fighter, our survivor) until gone midnight every day, regardless of the fact that I'm disabled and was on crutches, needed to rest etc as you do! I refused to leave his incubator. Refused.

Anyway, I was ordered (in the nicest possible way) to go and eat something once DH arrived after taking DD to school. I did only to find the said rep waiting, hovering, outside of my room. The truly wonderful midwives had left me some tea and toast because I'd missed the breakfast run as per but I couldn't carry anything, being on crutches......

I was starving, sleep deprived, in pain and emotionally drained and I arrived to a sales pitch like no other. This woman gave Everest Windows a run for their money!

I kindly explained my situation which seemed to fuel her desire to get me to agree to have photo's even more..... almost 'just in case the worst should happen....' I could hear the tone in her voice. She was politely shown the door.

If they are going to be allowed onto Maternity wards, then they should be TOLD about mothers like me, or who have lost their babies. They should be TOLD to leave us alone and maybe just to leave the info packs with contact details so that WE can decide for ourselves in time, if we want photos taken.

I was appalled and so very upset. The packs were no good to us either as Nemo was tube fed (and still is) from the start.

The packs are so boring and generic.

Why not have a SN pack? With helpful contact numbers in? Why not have specialist Bounty Reps, if they insist on being there, who can put parents in touch with others who are like them?

During Nemo's stay, he was eventually moved into a room with another little boy who also had 3 of the conditions that he did. We learnt so much from his parents, we felt so relieved to no longer just be two people who were given 'that look' as we went past the normal maternity ward.

I also didn't read the small print (where it existed) which told the new parents that all of your details would be passed onto various companies!

I know that the wards are chaos and so very busy but surely, someone could have informed the Reps that in our case, maybe it would have been better to let us contact them should we want to have pictures taken?

Sorry for the epic post, I think that they should be banned from the wards and maybe have a room that they can use for parents to go and see them in? Or be in the communal room that's on most wards but under strict instruction NOT to approach mums/dads? Times and dates that they'll be someone there for those who DO want Bounty photos etc?

I didn't have any particularly bad experience with the Bounty Lady when DD and I were on the post natal ward. She visited, accepted that I didn;t want to give her my details and just left me the CB forms. I was still pissed off that my NO VISITS FROM THE BOUNTY LADY PLEASE!!! (caps and bold in original) on the birth plan had been ignored.

A few posters have mentioned the packs you get from the MW at your booking in. I tried to refuse mine, but accepted it when the MW said that they got £1 for each one they handed out. I felt like I'd be doing the NHS out of much needed dosh if I refused the sodding thing.

These people have no place in a ward setting.

Good point MrsJamin. I have a consultant A/N clinic appt next week and it will be on my list.

Why should Bounty be the default paid photographer in any case? They don't know how to take good professional photos.

I agree with you Daisy299, with all you have said. I would give them short shrift too.

I was just saying it's really not something to dread. Or "prepare yourself" for. As with any other irritating marketing ploy, be it charity muggers, cold callers or people asking you to a do a survey in the street...you just say no and that's it. As if they come round again, you say it again.

I didn't see one at all actually, a bag was left by my bed though.

I do absolutely think it should be banned, I'm just saying you need a sense of perspective about it.

Mouse face that's ducking horrendous. I noticed with dd2 there were no bounty folk on the trans care ward. It's almost a shame as I was gunning for a fight!
Nemo sounds adorable though

I completely disagree with this sort of thing. I work very hard to avoid data capture and marketing as my partner and are intelligent enough to decide which services we require and when.

I think it highly unethical to approach parents post birth in order to sell anything and as for the packs they really are neither use nor ornament IMOH. I limit who has access to our sons data and to have somebody want this when they are hours old is disgusting.

I think as others have mentioned there is a data protection issue here as a patients details are easy accessible via their charts, there must also be a security issue as PN wards are secure for a reason. Surely anybody can easily "fake" access as a Bounty rep.

Like so many of these things it comes down to money and the NHS will not want to ban this practice as it brings in money. Xxx

I think someone needs to think afresh about what sort of culture would be good on a post-natal ward. If you asked, people would probably say they'd like it to feel safe, supportive, warm and friendly.

By allowing commercial reps to engage in direct marketing and data collection I think you damage the possibilities for the development of a much more supportive and friendly community/ culture on maternity wards.

I think their effect is much more pernicious than might at first appear.

I would have liked more friendly counseling style support from someone in the hours after the birth. Many women appreciate support with establishing breastfeeding.

I felt there was no-one to talk to (except when DH was allowed in)

I think we need to get rid of the Bounty reps and replace them with other much more supportive, non-commercial volunteers or professionals.

A few posters have mentioned the packs you get from the MW at your booking in. I tried to refuse mine, but accepted it when the MW said that they got £1 for each one they handed out. I felt like I'd be doing the NHS out of much needed dosh if I refused the sodding thing.

You should have offered her two quid to shove it where the sun doesn't shine. Then reported her.

A midwife is completely compromised if she puts any pressure on you to take a pack. You said no. Thats a complete sentence. If she doesn't respect that, that what does she think that does to trust between patient and carer? She is completely compromised and isn't putting your feelings and beliefs before a commercial company. It doesn't exactly build a good relationship or give a good impression from the word go. Of course if they have this attitude at booking in, just how far are they prepared to turn a blind eye for eye extra quid from Bounty? Are they going to listen to you when you are giving birth? Its totally and utterly unethical and it damages the profession and the relationship with patients; they have become reps for Bounty themselves. It just highlights the real extent of the conflict of interest going on here.

Do they not realise what they are really doing?

The thing is there does seem to be plenty of rules and regulations in existence that the practise is in conflict with; so it doesn't actually matter what the NHS wants. If you can hit them with the right one in the right way. They have legal obligations to patients which I believe they are totally failing in ensuring. This can be changed as the framework to do it is there. The big thing is simply proving it.

My DS was premature and we were hassled to have a photo done. She kept shaking a rattle in his tiny face to make him open his eyes. No-one stopped her.

I bet if I'd been doing it the midwives would have stopped me.

Bounty and the whole set up is disgusting.

LineRunner - it's shit isn't it? You have enough to deal with when your baby is born, without a baby who has additional needs or complications.

Big hugs to you xxx

Red - I'm with you on the giving her £2 and telling her to shove the Bounty pack. I had no idea that MWs get PAID FFS to give these things out.

I asked for mine with DD (15yrs ago) as I was excited to be getting some info, vouchers, samples etc. I had no idea what was behind it all until I started to get 'offers' through the post for everything under the sun, Companies calling me asking how DD was...... I'd naively filled all the paperwork out.

I'm sorry and shocked to hear how difficult your experience with the Bounty lady was Mouse

I think you're much too generous in your recommendations regarding Bounty - let's get rid of them, at least from the wards.

Maybe a small stall in the foyer on the way out - if they're very lucky (and do great photos, and have lots of decent goodies in the goody bag)
Then I might consider stopping by on my way out and giving them our valuable details - but probably not. Don't hold your breath !

www.burtonmail.co.uk/News/Queens-defends-having-sales-staff-in-maternity-ward-20130613170716.htm

They just don't get it. We'll let them harass new mums because the company pay for stuff.
Idiots.

Hey Juggs :) x

It is very generous of me, I guess that someone should be there for taking good quality, genuine photo's, should the family want them? And with that said, maybe new parents should be able to bring their own photographer into the ward? They let 'family' in so why not a photographer as long as the photos were done in a controlled environment?

So no other children/babies could be photo'd? I know that vouchers off food, creams etc are great and a lovely thing, who doesn't like free samples? Money off? BUT AT WHAT COST?

I was alone that day when she turned up - good job as I feel DH may have helped her find the door without the aid of the door release button!

Change Petition is nearly up to 13,000 signatures.

The comments for it are 'enlightening'.

I gave birth 11 weeks ago.

Bounty woman came round while I was asleep and took photo of DS.

Turned up later, showed me the picture.

I was horrified that somebody I didn't know had taken a pic of my less-than-24-hour-old (post c-section, in pain, tearful, curtains drawn, wanted nothing to do with anybody other than DS and Midwives/HCP)

Her "You were asleep earlier so I didn't want to disturb you"

I was fuming. I politely asked her to remove the picture, I didn't want it.

"Well, what's your name and address?"

Me "I don't want to give you my details"
Her "It will only take a minute then you can have your bag"
Me "I don't want a bag thankyou"
Her "You won't get your CB form then"
Me "Yes I will, I'm not interested in the pack"
Her "Well, I'll call back tomorrow"
Me....(as another poster suggested up thread) "No, thank you. Goodbye."

I tried to be polite, she ignored me so I had to get arsey to see her off - I had to look her in the eye and say slowly and calmly "I am NOT interested in giving you my details please leave me alone"

She responded...."I'll come back tomorrow when you've had some rest"

She was delightful and so friendly to the other mums in the bay. The mums that bought the pics and gave their details. Go figure.