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just had a run in with the maternity ward bounty photographer

(801 Posts)

And having previously defended them and loved my pictures of my eldest children todays 'rep' has made me agree they need to be removed from wards!

She arrived originally before breakfast turned on the lights and opened curtains waking me and the other Mum up, then continued to talk over the peadiatrician who was checking my dd over.

Eventually she sulked off but apparently came back when I was asleep (how dare I?) Last time she came back as I'd just settled dd and was eating lunch which had just arrived.

I said No photos at the minute thanks she got most insistant that its for security reasons?? (I'm going home today) and said she'd just lean round and take them, dd was asleep on my lap in a v pillow whilst I ate. I said again, not right now I'm eating she left brochures and went off muttering quite loudly.

I'm hormonal so ofc this has upset me, but not as much as the first time mum across they way! WHY are these people allowed to just walk around a maternity ward being so fucking rude!

SusieSausages Fri 21-Dec-12 13:23:57

I couldn't agree more. Had a run in with a Bounty woman after DS was born. DS and I were both exhausted, fast asleep and she shook me to wake me up, then got all huffy when I politely asked her to go away.

"You're not the only woman in the world with a new baby, you know." Or words to that effect.

Rude cow. I complained to the midwife but she just shrugged and looked at me like I was a bit strange.

CatchingMockingbirds Fri 21-Dec-12 13:24:16

I don't understand the 'for security reasons' part?

EuroShagmore Fri 21-Dec-12 13:24:23

I really don't get why this is allowed.

SusieSausages Fri 21-Dec-12 13:25:21

I don't get it either. How they can lie like that and get away with it. It was only from reading posts on here that I knew it was a load of rubbish or I would've believed her.

CatchingMockingbirds Fri 21-Dec-12 13:25:30

Actually, I don't understand the whole thing, who are the bounty people and why are they in the hospital?

gemdrop84 Fri 21-Dec-12 13:26:38

oh state they are so bloody rude and don't seem to take no for an answer! I was kept overnight after having dd, bounty lady waltzed in early in morning, told her we weren't interested, muttered something about photos for security reasons and we would need our pack, said she'd come back. I was sat trying to bf dd who just didn't want to latch and each time we seemed to get somewhere she would burst in the door wanting to take a photo, I got stressed out each time she came in which obv didn't help with the bf situation. Dp sent her on her way in the end.

NameGotLostInCyberspace Fri 21-Dec-12 13:27:37

Does anyone know if the hospital gain anything from this? Just curious as to why this shit is allowed!

By all means, offer to take pics by no means WAKE a sleeping Mum or disturb in general.

Very confused about this set up? confused.

CelticPromise Fri 21-Dec-12 13:28:22

Oh I HATE the Bounty bollocks. I was far too polite to the woman who came to see me and asked where DS was. Er, he's three months early so try intensive care!

Icelollycraving Fri 21-Dec-12 13:28:36

I assume they pay for the privilege. I got v pissed off with them,v v persistent,I am a sucker for anything to do with ds but felt I really didn't want pictures of him on a fluffy bit of fabric that had been under a trillion other babies (v pfb!).
I did complain though when I was back in hospital a week after having him,he stayed at home with dh as I was v unwell. She breezed in 'where is your baby?' blah blah. I found it hideously insensitive. Ds was fine at home,what if he wasn't?

jinglebellyalltheway Fri 21-Dec-12 13:29:45

it is SHOCKING that these buisness reps are allowed on the ward at times of day when your own mother is not!

they need to be banned!

when I declined politely I was told that if she didn't tick me off it'ld look like I was trying to fiddle getting extra packs - I said I didn't want any packs! She tried to bull shit me that I wouldnt' get a child benefit form without one! (total bollocks) then took a photo anyway and said something like "well that's the best picture you'll get of one like that!" then went over to the woman opposite and started coooing about how beautiful THAT one was! and how SOME babies are such a joy to photograph sad

it is a terrible company, well known on boards for women that lost babies or had premies for their total lack of sensitivity (e.g. continuing to send child's birthday brochures to households where the baby died after being asked to remove the family from the mail list repeatedly! )

PLEASE complain formally to the hospital! It is totally wrong that a buisness can agressively target women on the post natal ward! you should be safe there!

SenoritaViva Fri 21-Dec-12 13:29:54

I had heard about them; so disappointed there wasn't one when I had DS. I was itching for a run in with one!!!

Hospitals are paid by Bounty for allowing their data-mining to take place in postnatal wards angry

crikeybill Fri 21-Dec-12 13:30:12

Ive had 3 kids and never been approached by the Bounty people once !! They were hovering about when dd2 and Ds1 was born as I heard them but they didnt approach me.

Maybe my babies were ....ugly sad

gemdrop84 Fri 21-Dec-12 13:30:31

I didn't/don't understand the security reasons thing either....

I told them I wasn't interested and the woman twittered on and on about how I couldn't claim CB unless she took my details and gave me a Bounty pack. Pointed out that the forms are printable online and she got all humphy, even more so when the woman in the next bed also told her to go away grin

NameGotLostInCyberspace Fri 21-Dec-12 13:31:35

My own experience wasn't as severe but annoying. She came every day (I was there for 4 nights) but there was alot going on. She didn't seem to get that we were busy.
I felt "put upon" to say the least.

mamij Fri 21-Dec-12 13:33:00

I never had the privilege of having one around when either DDs were born. Sounds interesting though!

jinglebellyalltheway Fri 21-Dec-12 13:33:21

"Does anyone know if the hospital gain anything from this? Just curious as to why this shit is allowed!"

they pay the hospital for every set of details which they then sell on

they have been known to TAKE women's addresses from the front of their notes where the woman has been too unwell or unwilling to give them herself

They also negotiate extra perks for their reps such as parking permits, so your nurse/doctor that is comming and going alone at all hours of day and night may be declined a parking permit, but your Bounty rep will have one angry

quoteunquote Fri 21-Dec-12 13:34:19

and if you refuse as you should to give your baby details they steal the details off the board,

they make their money selling your babies details to other companies, all you get is some token , a nappy, and bum cream, really worth selling your babies details for,

there is very little that I hate in life, I save the word for when I mean it, if the CEO of bounty and I got in a life only one of us is getting out alive,

I actually give myself a pat on the back occasionally because I some how have managed to control myself and not tracked the bastard down, he should be grateful I have other children, as prison on it own isn't enough of a deterrent.

because bounty sell dead baby details, no matter what you do if you are the parent of a dead baby you can do nothing to stop bounty repeatedly selling your dead baby details for years and years,

particularly annoying if when the bounty vultures came around you went out of your way to not allow them the details, and they took them anyway,

sorry to rant but I hate fucking bastard leech culture bounty bastards all of them from the women that stalk and steal from the wards, to the head of the company. turds the lot of them.

off to breath deeply now.

NameGotLostInCyberspace Fri 21-Dec-12 13:35:29

Bloody disgraceful! Petition anywhere??

Sunnywithachanceofjinglebells Fri 21-Dec-12 13:36:48

They sound fecking awful.

jinglebellyalltheway Fri 21-Dec-12 13:37:06

I fucking hate them too, I really really hate them! I am worried that I will end up a red faced shaking shouting wreck if they come NEAR me this time!

FreePeaceSweet Fri 21-Dec-12 13:37:12

I wrote it in my last birth plan that they weren't to come near me. That may sound extreme but as one pulled my curtain back as my dh was applying antiseptic stuff to my stitches and just stood there laughing rather than apologising, closing the curtain and walking away during my second birth I felt more than justified.

CatchingMockingbirds Fri 21-Dec-12 13:38:04

Oh god they sound awful, I was in hospital for 4 days when I had DS but didn't meet any. I'll be on the look out with this baby though when the time comes and will tell them to bugger off!

So what do they actually do? I've been given bounty packs while pregnant but that's it.

JambalayaWarmMincePie Fri 21-Dec-12 13:39:11

I saw the Bounty Lady approaching .....

Go away.

But if

Go away.

I really think

Go away.

There's no need to be so-

GO AWAY.

She then looked at the midwife sat with me for some back up, who very clearly told her,

Go away.

grin

SusieSausages Fri 21-Dec-12 13:40:00

quoteunquote sad

JambalayaWarmMincePie Fri 21-Dec-12 13:41:44

No thanks. grin

Florabeebaby Fri 21-Dec-12 13:42:04

Both my babies were premies and the second time a lady came over and asked for my details, looked around for a baby and then said 'oh, I'll come back if you get your baby back!!' IF!
The said baby was in NICU on CPAP...with my first baby no-one came to see me, I think they told them to stay away as I was a mess. DD was 8 wks early and very poorly.
But I agree, they are a complete nuisance and the packs are crap. End of.

ariane5 Fri 21-Dec-12 13:42:42

When I had ds2 (he was v ill and in intensive care) the bounty woman came round asking where my baby was.she came back every day (twice on one day) to see if had him with me, I was a wreck and terribly upset but she would fling my door open and say all cheerfully "baby back yet?!!" I just wanted her to go away.

teacherwith2kids Fri 21-Dec-12 13:43:33

We had an amusing run-in with one when DS was born.

We moved to the US 6 weeks after DS was born, so needed photos urgently for passport and visa applications (DS is a December babe, so there was very little time due to closures of the relevant ofices over Christmas). So I allowed her to take a photo, but asked for passport photos only. 'We don't do that as a package' etc etc ... so I asked her to ring her head office to get a price. Came out as cheaper than the photo booth (think they hadn't had that request very often so hadn't worked out the correct extortionate mark-up), so paid her in cash then and there.

Asked for my address - said 'well, you won't want that because we're moving out 3 weeks tomorrow to move abroad, that's why we wanted the passport pics'. NOT a happy lady.....

jinglebellyalltheway Fri 21-Dec-12 13:43:34

Catching this is what they actually do

at prime PND time they sell your details to home security companies who send you junk mail/calls about how your family are in danger if you don't care enough to fit their alarms

before each birthday they send junk mail about kids party stuff relevant to the child's age, even if that child died and you asked them to stop

they make a fortune out of your details

they imply that you NEED their pack for CB form (you don't)
they imply that the photos are needed for "security reasons" (they're not)
There are fuck all "freebies" in it anyway, its all advertising for top priced brands

Pooka Fri 21-Dec-12 13:43:52

The bounty woman who came round after dc1 was born wasnt too bad - I said no thanks as soon as she started on about photos and off she went without any argument.

Am absolutely shocked at other peoples experiences with them - I definitely agree tht they have no place on a post natal ward. However, living in an area where the PCT is bust, I can't imagine how the shortfall if they were booted out would be made up without further cuts to services. They should never have been allowed to get their foot in the door in the first place.

With dc2 I was only in hospital from 9-11pm. With ds2 had home birth, so thankfully missed the nonsense with two out of three births.

5dcsandallthelittlesantahats Fri 21-Dec-12 13:45:49

I just say "ive brought my own camera" and refuse to let them look at the baby they go away then.

FreePeaceSweet Fri 21-Dec-12 13:46:44

I advise any expectant mothers who don't want photos taking to make sure they have a safety pin and some paper with them so they can pin a note to the curtains.

Pooka Fri 21-Dec-12 13:47:06

She did seem to be shocked that I just said no. Made me wonder afterwards whether everyone has the photos done.

jinglebellyalltheway Fri 21-Dec-12 13:47:17

oh and they do it at times when you have no "back up" - i.e. they come before visiting times so your family can't tell them to fuck off if they wont go with your 3rd "no thank you"

I reported one at my hospital to Bounty. Had a nightmare c-section with pfb dd, had a gases bottle still attached so was not in the mood.

Guy comes over and really pushes at me. I told him, politely then less so, to feck off.

His parting shot to me was it was "sad when a Mum doesn't love their kid enough to have a picture taken" (had decent camera to do it myself). Then to another Mum who said yes told her that "some people say no as their kids are ugly babies". Really loud, in my direction shock At which point he was lucky I was bed bound or I'd have spanked him one..

The reason I said no was because when my god daughter was born 3 months before, he'd got her name down wrong and spelt everything with the wrong spelling. It was printed on everything at the front with date of birth etc. So I didn't wish to spend god knows how much to get the same shoddy crap.

Vagaceratops Fri 21-Dec-12 13:48:35

They are vultures dressed up as ladies, like the slitheen in Doctor Who.

lyndie Fri 21-Dec-12 13:49:40

I was trying to bf 1 day old DS when she whipped the curtain round. So rude, refuses to speak to them for subsequent births.

I HATE the way they promote branded baby items to lower income parents who don't realise supermarket brands are cheaper and completely fine.

Well I DID used to be regularly banned from their forums...

Thankfully I didn't have any problems with them. They tried to take photos but I said that my DH was a photographer and they buggered off. (Maybe I looked fierce after 48hrs labour?)

Yawnarama Fri 21-Dec-12 13:55:53

I 'know' a bounty lady in real life and yep she is just as you would expect a bounty lady to be, and I can imagine her being involved in any number of the scenarios described on this thread.

She also tittle tattles confidential information about who has had babies and what they've called them, and whether they had a c-section or instrumental delivery.

BrigitBigKnickers Fri 21-Dec-12 13:57:55

I was disgusted with the Bounty photographer who arrived to take my DDs picture. DD was screaming her head off at the time and the dirty old hag stuck her knuckle in dds mouth to shut her up.shock

The picture was terrible and we never bought it.

FreePeaceSweet Fri 21-Dec-12 13:58:42

Reeeeeeally Glitterknickaz? Interesting... grin We may have something in common

thegriffon Fri 21-Dec-12 13:58:48

This has pissed me off for years, the Bounty website boasts about having unrivalled access to new parents. I made a Freedom of Information request asking how much Bounty paid the hospital for allowing them access to mothers. Was told £5 if photos taken and £1 for every Bounty pack given out. Other areas may vary.

Fluffycloudland77 Fri 21-Dec-12 13:59:35

The midwives probably hate them too.

Do you all know that if medical photography is used you have to sign a consent form stating what the photo is for etc?

We have to get permission to photograph foot ulcers. It's an A4 size form. Verbal consent isnt enough.

DontmindifIdo Fri 21-Dec-12 14:00:54

I don't know anyone who has a good word for them, at best it's that they had an unoffensive one. I guess woman are so vunerable then and have so much else going on you don't get round to complaining. My DH had to tell one who came round 3 times to go away.

I hadn't thought about putting "make the Bounty rep leave me alone" on my birth plan this time round, but it's a good idea and I will be doing that!

BartletForTeamGB Fri 21-Dec-12 14:02:28

I had a home birth with DS so the MW gave me the Bounty pack and I didn't need to give any details. I hadn't registered for any of the packs though.

I was induced with DD after she died, so didn't have any dealings with Bounty after that and hadn't registered for anything.

But, if anyone is in the sad situation of having registered for one of these lists, you can be taken off them by registering with a similar service to the telephone preference service:

www.mpsonline.org.uk/bmps/

DuchessofMalfi Fri 21-Dec-12 14:02:55

I had no idea who they were when I was in hospital after DD was born. Feeling rough after an emergency c-section, and a womb infection, I let the Bounty photographer take a picture of DD. When it finally arrived a couple of weeks later it was the worst photo I'd ever seen, so we sent it back.

When DS was born I just said no thanks when approached. Still got all the bounty packs and stuff.

DontmindifIdo Fri 21-Dec-12 14:03:30

Actually, what would happen if we started a bit of a campaign, trying to get everyone to put "make the bounty rep leave me alone and do not allow them to access any information about me or my baby" on their birth plan?

TheProvincialLady Fri 21-Dec-12 14:06:25

I agree they should be banned from wards. Can you imagine the outcry if men on prostate surgery wards were invaded by the bounty man, trying to get hold of their personal details to sell on and opening curtains to get at them? Everyone has access to a camera these days. There is absolutely no benefit to women having them on hospital ground.

The only kind of bounty woman I want to see when I have just given birth is one carrying a massive sack of Bounty bars that she is desperate to get rid of and needs my help. I'd have sold my soul, let alone my address, to that woman.

jinglebellyalltheway Fri 21-Dec-12 14:08:32

I've just written it in big letters on the front of my community notes, but dunno if I'll be with it enough to write it on my hospital notes during labour! It'll be in my birth plan though.. and if I have time I'll get a laminated sign to put over my bed!

VivaLeBeaver Fri 21-Dec-12 14:08:36

The bounty packs are terrible, small pot of sudocreme, one nappy and a tiny pack of wipes.

DuchessofMalfi Fri 21-Dec-12 14:11:43

Completely agree the bounty packs are rubbish, although the Sudocrem did come in handy as an extra in the changing bag. Most of the leaflets ended up in the recycling box grin

TeeElfOnTeeShelf Fri 21-Dec-12 14:13:35

I was in the hospital for nearly a week and never saw them. Luckily for them because I don't suffer that sort of thing gladly when I haven't had a CS and a baby in SCBU.

And the pack was crap.

DillyTante Fri 21-Dec-12 14:15:25

God some of these stories are awful! Don't remember coming across one with DD1 & thankfully had DD2 at home.

milk Fri 21-Dec-12 14:16:22

Bounty got £60 off us when DS1 was born. I was so out of it I honestly would have signed away my soul sad

With DS2 I was much better and spent £15... Bounty lady was not happy.

exBrightonBell Fri 21-Dec-12 14:17:58

I also had a ridiculous experience with the bounty woman when I had my ds. I'm hospital phobic anyway, and had been in for 5 days whilst they induced me. After finally having ds by emcs, I was in a side room of the post natal ward recovering from the c section and also a group b strep infection. My ds was in SCBU very poorly from the group b strep. I was very unhappy and distressed with the whole situation as you can imagine. The bloody bounty woman flung my door open and whisked my curtains aside and said "have you had your photos yet?". I just stared in horror at her. Whereupon she said "where is your baby anyway?!". I couldn't quite believe she'd come out with something so insensitive. So I told her - my baby is very poorly in SCBU and that is the most insensitive question you could possibly have asked me, please go away. She at least had the decency to look a bit bothered, and muttered sorry as she left.

I could get very angry about how they are allowed to prey on vulnerable women for the sake of money. I would happily pay the hospital a fiver to ensure they don't harass me!

jinglebellyalltheway Fri 21-Dec-12 14:21:22

sudocreme will send you a free 8 pack of those little pots if you ask them BTW

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 14:23:10

I never went on the post natal ward as I was discharged direct from the delivery suite (was only in hospital for 4.5 hours in total). Reading this makes me very relieved that was the case !! Like you need some stranger up in your face with a camera after you have gone through labour and may have some very unpleasant birth injuries. I can't believe that it's allowed really, for what is essentially commercial purposes.

Maybe MN could start a "no Bounty on PN wards campaign" ?

Guess I'm lucky as the bounty lady on the ward when I had ds was pleasant and called before opening the curtain etc, and if I said 'not now' she actually listened and went away.

Would be mortified if I had one half as offensive as some of the ones mentioned above but would definitely complain, even if just quick email to the hospital or Maternity ward manager.

Would also be fab if somehow we could get Bounty themselves to see this thread.....would be great if we could opt in to allow the bounty lady to approach us post natallly. Would make it easier. if our family has to be allowed to in to see us then why should should a stranger be allowed to waltz in?!

sad at some of your experiences.

fatcuntroller Fri 21-Dec-12 14:23:34

I'm still angry about bounty almost 5 years after dd1 was born. Woman comesaround curtain with camera and tells me she "needs" a photo of dd. I assumed she worked for the hospital and needed it for dds file or something. She then presented me with a price list. I said I didn't want to pay for photos and she said I had to now because she'd already taken the photo.

I paid eventhough we really couldn't afford it.

PorkyScratching Fri 21-Dec-12 14:29:49

Our NHS refuse to have anything to do with Bounty, and havent for about 15 years. We dont get bounty packs at all, from midwives or from the hospital, thank god!

the same thing happened to me the lady was very rude as i didn't want them taken because i could not afford to buy them ,she wanted to take them anyway and i couldn't understand why if i didn't want them - wheres the reason in that ?
she stormed off in a huff i mean what on earth was all that about ?

the same thing happened to me the lady was very rude as i didn't want them taken because i could not afford to buy them ,she wanted to take them anyway and i couldn't understand why if i didn't want them - wheres the reason in that ?
she stormed off in a huff i mean what on earth was all that about ?

DontmindifIdo Fri 21-Dec-12 14:32:24

see, no one has a really positive story, best others have is "they weren't that bad" - being polite to a new mum must be a minimum, their photos aren't cheap or good quality, the packs are pretty pointless and you get junk mail for months afterwards from them.

Definately 'no bounty vulture rep' all over my notes. and will be warned DH to tell them to bugger off we don't want to go on any mailing lists or have any crap photos thanks.

sorry posted twice blush

jinglebellyalltheway Fri 21-Dec-12 14:32:27

our community notes get given to us in a bounty folder, so from the start the Bounty brand is given credibility and is familiar, and pregnant ladies see all the other pregnant ladies at scans etc sitting their with the Bounty notes holder!

Anyone who is against Bounty should decant their notes into a regular pocket file immediately and not advertise Bounty and give the brand the familiarity that breeds trust

jinglebellyalltheway Fri 21-Dec-12 14:33:24

sitting THERE blush

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 14:37:55

I have to admit that I did quite well out of the bounty people though - for some reason they had some spare packs on delivery and the MW said "do you want a couple of spare packs" ? Which I gladly took as they all had a full size bottle of fabric conditioner in them. I then chucked all the advertising gubbins in a bin in the way out ! I felt I had got one over on them haha.

In fact there is a photo of me holding DD on our arrival home with the 3 bottles of Fabric-Conditioner-Sponsored-by-Bounty behind me on the kitchen worktop !

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Fri 21-Dec-12 14:40:18

Holy fuck! I had never heard of this, having never given birth, but it sounds completely criminal!

cbeebiesatemybrain Fri 21-Dec-12 14:44:39

I'm so grateful to mn for warning me about bounty. Thankfully I've only been approached by them once, when I was in the antenatal clinic very pg with dd. The woman handed me a pack and a form to fill in with all my details, then took the pack back out of my hand and said I could have it after I'd filled the form in and put it in the box on the desk. I wrote fuck off on the form and stuck it in the box, then the mw called me for my appointment grin

It is beyond awful that these vultures are allowed access to postnatal wards, especially outside of visiting hours angry has anyone found a petition anywhere?

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest, and agreeing with me!

I'm really sad that so many other women have tollerated this, thing is I'm a push over usually if she'd have come back later I'd have more than likely parted with the cash for some but she was just rude, and her whole manner was loud and dominating, told mum across the room from me, ALL mums join bounty, I've told her about mumsnet!

I'm going home now, well when dps moved the car to main entrance I am, I'm going to write a complaint once the fogs lifted, I'm only upset as I'm hormonal, I can't imagine how much worse she could make someone feel.

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 14:55:28

I have posted the following e-petition on the Downing Street website:

^Keep Bounty representatives out of Postnatal Wards
Department of Health

Bounty is a commercial company that survives by targetting new mothers to obtain details which are sold on to 3rd parties at great profit. Mothers routinely report unpleasant harassment from the Bounty reps who are given free access to postnatal wards; mothers who do not comply are insulted or even subjected to theft of their personal information from nursing stations. Women are pressured into purchasing expensive photographs, lied to that they will not be able to get child benefit without complying and photographs are necessary for hospital security. Mothers are disturbed while trying to feed their babies, sleep or consult with medical staff.
I would like the government to look at curbing the activities of this commercial organisation which has no place in a hospital. Cancer patients would not be subjected to such aggressive marketing when they were recovering from surgery, why should a post natal mother ?^

Meglet Fri 21-Dec-12 14:55:40

I only saw one briefly with DS1. I was expressing and she just chatted about what a PITA bf was when it didn't work properly. She never asked for photos with him or with DD 2yrs later. Another ugly family here grin. I did get my pack though.

Agree they shouldn't be allowed on the wards.

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 14:56:55

I am friends with my MP, he is quite involved with Health as he has been campaigning about the maternity services in our local Trust - I will ask him about maybe bringing this up as a debate.

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 15:01:35

Have confirmed my email address, when the petition is live (may take up to 7 days apparently) I will post a thread with the link on it

DontmindifIdo Fri 21-Dec-12 15:05:19

oh, my notes are decanted into a non-Bounty branded pack straight off. In fact this time round I just binned the pack from the midwife without even bothering to look what was in it.

RedToothbrush Fri 21-Dec-12 15:14:31

I've posted about this before, but I strongly believe that methods routinely used by Bounty break various Trading Standard rules (about approaching people at vulnerable times, approaching people who are unable to leave freely, hard sell tactics, dishonest representation - by saying its for security reasons or you won't get benefits and I think there were a couple of others I can't remember). I doubt anyone has taken it to Trading Standards though, as the obvious place to complain would be to the hospital, who have a vested interest in not pursing complaints. I do think its an angle that someone needs to seriously look at.

Trouble is to take it to Trading Standards you have to have a 'live case' as such. You can't do it purely on historical anecdotes. You need a bunch of people to actively complain. Which obviously is not something that women who've just been in hospital and have a new born to worry about, have at the top of their to do lists. Hence why I don't think anyone's really done this before.

tasmaniandevilchaser Fri 21-Dec-12 15:17:47

oh state sorry you had a Bounty rep run in, hope you can relax now you've sent her on her way. "for security reasons"????!!!!!! wtf!!

nigel I'd be interested in signing the petition, maybe put a link in here as well?

I never met a Bounty rep with DD but after these horror stories, he/she will be sent packing this time around.

Nivet Fri 21-Dec-12 15:26:34

Bounty are absolute assholes.

Any responsible data company or mailing house should be using both the MPS linked to earlier and the Bereavement Register to ensure that mail only goes to those that want it.

Seriously, if a Bounty lady had approached me and kept bothering me I would tell her to Fuck Off and if she came back I would report her.

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 15:36:45

interesting article from 2009

Think it's high time this issue got another airing - especially if the BMJ, NCT etc were behind it.

OhDear - I shall be signing that petition.

TeeElfOnTeeShelf Fri 21-Dec-12 15:55:26

So this was brought up in 2009 and it's still going on? Did the Information Commission do anything at the time?

I don't usually sign petitions. This one I'll sign.

cbeebiesatemybrain Fri 21-Dec-12 16:01:39

OhdearNigel you are a star smile I will definitely sign and share on facebook.

I forgot to say congratulations op! Does your new dd have a name yet?

charlottehere Fri 21-Dec-12 16:04:49

What an arse, her not you. Did she expect you to pay for the security photos? shock

I must admit to being a bit shocked that the bounty lady came into the delivery suite (when all done a nd dusted) to take my details, give me a pack. hmm

cakesonatrain Fri 21-Dec-12 16:05:51

Oh god I'd forgotten about the bloody bounty woman! I will be firmly telling her to naff off this time!

MarriedToSonOfAPreacherMan Fri 21-Dec-12 16:20:05

When I first read about Bounty on MN (having been handed the first pack by my mw so thinking before that they were legit), I went to their website to remove my details. They had my previous rather than my current address - and I was never pg or had any dealings with maternity services when we lived there. So looks like people are selling them details as well as vice versa. angry I was all prepared for a run-in when I had DD, but was lucky and got one who was polite and took no for an answer - though she did try to spin me the line about needing the pack for the CB form.

TooImmatureMincePies Fri 21-Dec-12 16:21:14

I told mine to go away. Think DH was a bit shocked, until I explained afterwards. She seemed a bit stunned too - don't think many new mothers are quite so resistant. I only knew because of MN!

Thank you ohdearnigel ill keep an eye out for it.

She's called Lily cebeebies

I actually thought they'd removed the bounty lady from our hospital as I didn't see her sooner, and with ds and dd1 she appeared several times a day, dd was born wednesday and I was lulled into a false sense of security, I just couldn't believe the fact that she said, "oh ill just lean over and take a photo" I had to be really firm and it made me feel very vulnerable, I had wonderful mws and support otherwise and feel this has put a dampner on my experience as such. Really wish I had still got the pregnancy rage and had torn her a new one, loudly.

StiffyByng Fri 21-Dec-12 16:37:02

I had a home birth last time, never bothered getting the packs when pregnant or afterwards and find the whole idea of these reps repellent. How dare they?

By the way, our registrar filled in the CB form with us when we registered the birth. I think this is increasingly common. Really no need for these tacky packs.

LookingForwardToMarch Fri 21-Dec-12 16:38:12

I like to fill in the wrong details on the form smile

topbannana Fri 21-Dec-12 16:42:52

I used to be a photographer on the maternity ward, though for an independent company rather than Bounty. The company I worked for paid a great deal to the hospital for the privilege of having their photographer on the ward, as well as a donation for every photo sold.
That is why they are allowed to wander around at will and harrass you smile

gwenniebee Fri 21-Dec-12 16:44:27

Wow! I'm really shocked to hear that. The lady who came round our ward was fairly nice (although she made me think that what I was doing in giving my details was necessary procedure and I had no opt-out). There was no talk of photos. I do get a crap-load of emails from them though.

Emma's Diary - now I know they sold my details despite the fact that I ticked all the boxes to say not to.

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 16:46:46

it's disgusting. So if I paid enough could I wander around any old ward doing what I like ? Although the Saville/Stoke Mandeville seems to indicate "yes you can".

Flash enough cash and you get what you want. Whether you're a supermarket knocking down a primary school, a commercial organisation harassing post natal mothers or a predatory paedophile sad

JenFrankincenseAndMyrrh Fri 21-Dec-12 16:55:02

I'm glad the hospital I was at doesn't have Bounty reps although after a 4 day labour I could have had a real go at one if they did.

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 17:02:47

Think I might make a request from my local NHS trust under freedom of information how much money they derive from Bounty

ReindeerOutdoors Fri 21-Dec-12 17:08:19

Hated the bounty woman. I'm a very non confrontational person but this time around I'm determined not to give her any details. Will definitely be signing that petition too.

How are they paid? Presumably on some kind of commission?

stifnstav Fri 21-Dec-12 17:13:27

I agree about Bounty wholeheartedly. The woman interrupted me every day, even though I had DS's photo taken.

I had 14 days from the date of the photo to return it, otherwise I'd be charged £49.99 for a photo that looked nothing like him (useless for security, pah!)

It took about 10 days for them to arrive, so I was cutting it fine to return them, especially as paternity leave for DH was ending and I couldn't drive after a C Section. Coincidence much?! I bet they delay it on purpose to make it hard to return them.

And Emma's Diary fuck me right off with their spammy emails telling me to get DS a Junior ISA. Babies don't usually pay tax, so what use is a fucking ISA?! Fuck off Emma!

NotSpartacus Fri 21-Dec-12 17:18:43

here is the bounty employee code of conduct. It's rather different from the experiences reported on this thread, although I suppose "bully new mums, lie to them and call their babies ugly" might not be as well received by hospitals...
It is interesting to me that they post this on their website - not many employers do- and makes me wonder how many complaints they get.

Bounty are a bunch of cunts. I'll be signing the petition.

Not to concern anyone, but after the above experience I had, I made a point of writing on my notes and birth plan "No Bounty photos please".

Made not a sod of difference.

Can totally sympathise with you exBrightonBelle- when I had ds 16 months after dd at another hospital, he was a 28 weeker. I had a serious infection, so had the gasses bottle from my section and an IV of antibiotics. Was very ill, and so worried about ds.

Was placed on the maternity ward with the new Mums- which was awful enough- as their side wards were booked. Bounty Bitch came, I had my curtain shut. She breezes round the other 3 beds, lots of "Oh I've done you dearies" to the ladies. I thought I was safe as obviously, the notes and no baby with me as he was in scbu.

She swishes back the curtain, tells me to sit up and stop slouching, "oh don't you look glum, have you got the depression?"

I could hardly speak as I felt like utter shit. She then spots the lack of baby and asks, jolly as you like "oh did it die? Is that why you are moping in here then, you should get out on the ward".

Disgraceful. I burst into tears and muttered, no. So she cuts me off and says "ah, baby taken away from you, huh? Did you chose that or did the SS?"

At this point, lady in bed next to me who had chatted to me, came back from the loo and tore strips off her and the MWs on the ward for allowing her to harass me and be so rude.

I am still angry about that now. What a bitch- she then, on hearing ds was in scbu asked if I wanted some pics "just in case". At that point, I threw a biography I had next to my bed at her and she fucked off.

Awful grasping people who should be banned.

BartletForTeamGB Fri 21-Dec-12 17:33:01

Ah, if I can get the pack without giving details (if I don't have a home birth this time), then I might take it. I think I might print off that code of conduct and stick it in my bag so I can brandish it at any pushy Bounty lady that comes my way this time.

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 17:33:31

They must receive a lot of complaints to have to post that as a back-covering exercise.

I wonder, are the Bounty women employees or are they "agents" that work for themselves in the manner of Body Shop at Home ?

Fuck me, Fellowship shock shock Good on you for throwing something at the twat. If I ever have another baby I'll be sure to take some bricks into hospital with me for this purpose.

Eau I would, that'd just about sodding work.

In my defence, I'm not usually a book or other object chucker or violent person but I could barely speak due to the medication I was on and the utter dread I felt for him.

Although if I could have got up I think I'd have punched her.

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 17:37:26

Fellowship shock I am literally speechless. How on earth could anyone think that was acceptable behaviour ? Where on earth do they find these people ? Or do they indoctrinate them in training ?

voscar Fri 21-Dec-12 18:15:48

I told the bounty woman - no thanks and was all set for a fight, but she toddled off quietly.

Only for her to wait until I had gone to the shower and come back and tell my unsuspecting mother that she needed my information and I would get lots of goodies too.

My mum holds up the bounty bags full of smiles as I returned. I was livid and now get lots of junk mail from all sorts.

They shouldn't have been allowed to take down my details from anyone but ME!

AlreadyScone Fri 21-Dec-12 18:29:41

When I had my first child a decade ago I was very frightened when this un-uniformed woman just breezed into my cubicle and wheeled my baby off with no explanation (I was stuck in bed on a catheter.) they sent me a bill a week later for these unbelievably shite photos. I sent them a very cathartic letter.

When I had my second I was ready for them. I refused the photo politely, then got the line about "You can't claim child benefit without one" to which I said calmly "That's not true, is it?" which sparked some interest from other mums on the ward. Ooh did she flounce grin

MirandaWest Fri 21-Dec-12 18:35:55

Did I somehow just manage to miss Bounty people with both DC? I vaguely remember someone coming round but I just said "no thank you" and they just went.

FryOneFatChristmasTurkey Fri 21-Dec-12 18:56:44

When I had DD, the bounty stuff was handed over by the midwives, I don't remember giving any details (I may have done) but they didn't take photos. What they did was Bounty sold details to local photographers in that region.

Thing was, the photographer who sent his bumph to us after I got home turned out to be SIL's ex husband........who wouldn't have recognised the my surname as I have never changed my own name, so nothing to connect me with SIL. grin Didn't use that photographer!

DillyTante Fri 21-Dec-12 19:02:05

This just gets worse. Will defo sign your petition ohdearnigel.

snowtunesgirl Fri 21-Dec-12 19:04:27

Fellow fuck me, that is unbelievable! shock

I must have got lucky, I was in hospital for six days and didn't see a Bounty woman once. Maybe the sobbing from my cubicle put them off...

FryOneFatChristmasTurkey Fri 21-Dec-12 19:08:03

I will also be signing.

ChestyNutsRoastingOnAnOpenFire Fri 21-Dec-12 19:18:04

Congratulations state thanks

Rindercella Fri 21-Dec-12 19:19:53

Fellow DD1 just asked me what was wrong as I gasped out loud when reading your post. Absolutely fucking outrageous.

I can't remember the Bounty women at all both times I gave birth, but I think I got the packs so perhaps the midwife just handed them on to me. Obviously I was very, very lucky.

I think Nigel touched on it earlier, but the whole Savile/Stoke Mandeville/other hospitals thing came into my mind when first reading this thread. Not that the Bounty reps are vile, repellent paedophiles, obviously, but who the fuck are these people to be wandering around freely on post natal wards, preying on vulnerable women? I think it is outrageous that this is allowed to happen. I also think that hospitals might start to listen now about patients not wanting anyone but health care professionals around them when they are in hospital.

I too will sign a petition about this and also give support to any campaign to stop this practice.

Violet77 Fri 21-Dec-12 19:27:51

Fucking awful, and i rarely swear.

I was SO sick after one child, no visitors at all but this fucking women in my room.

Honestly they need to stop it. Had she appeared at my next childs birth i would have been having serious words.

TeamBacon Fri 21-Dec-12 19:28:05

I think thus thread should be shown to someone high up at Bounty. Are they on FB or Twitter?

grin

AloeSailor Fri 21-Dec-12 19:35:48

I can't believe they poke their head round when the curtain is tucking closed.
Luckily I was too ill when I had DD2 for them to visit.

Rindercella Fri 21-Dec-12 19:36:04

And also to someone high up in the NHS. Who is it who sanctions these people?

Emiliasmumtobe Fri 21-Dec-12 19:37:54

Hi, just saw this thread via twitter. The Guardian had a very interesting article about the Bounty people last year

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/the-womens-blog-with-jane-martinson/2011/aug/22/childbirth-women

squoosh Fri 21-Dec-12 19:43:44

Fellowship I am speechless at your experience!!!!!

SleepyLittleSunshineGirl Fri 21-Dec-12 19:53:57

Well, ifi have any more I shall say, "no thank you, and please don't ask the nurses or help yourself to my confidential information. My husband is a corporate litigation lawyer and we will take action of you do. Goodbye!" (he's not BTW!)

IamMummyhearmeROAR Fri 21-Dec-12 19:54:39

Oh I gave Bounty my details on the ward 8 years ago- no problem

And I'm sure they've been sending them to Narnia ever since.

Sevillemarmalade Fri 21-Dec-12 19:57:17

Unbelievable stories, had home births so no idea this was happening in hospitals. Will be signing petition

SleepyLittleSunshineGirl Fri 21-Dec-12 19:58:53

IamMummy PMSL!

I got Bountied and told 'well you can't get CB without signing up'.

I waved the forms DH had printed from the internet and her face was a picture.

OohMrDarcy Fri 21-Dec-12 20:22:41

found bounty on twitter.... have tweeted them! (@BountyUK)

Rhubarb78 Fri 21-Dec-12 20:22:49

I got a bounty pack when pg with my first son, he was stillborn at 24 weeks and the contents sat in my drawer for ages upsetting me terribly till i got the strength to throw them out. when i had my second son i was in hospital for 5 days following as he has jaundice and every day, twice a day i was pestered by these people, i kept saying 'no thank you' and getting looked at as if i had 2 heads because i didnt want one then i finally lost it on day 5 when one woman came in and pressed and pressed as to why i didnt want one 'everyone gets one, its part of having a new baby' i had to tell her that i didnt want one because my last baby was stillborn and the packs remind me of that, she just looked shocked and wandered off while i was left sobbing for an hour. i am still very resentful that she pushed me so hard i felt i had to say what i did to get her to go away when its not something i am comfortable telling anyone and everyone and how dare she come up and upset me like that. I am now pg again and i will be telling the first bounty person i see to make a note that i do not want to be pestered and if they do i will be making a formal complaint, i despise bounty

Smeggnog Fri 21-Dec-12 20:26:48

The bounty woman tried the whole CB spiel with me a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately for her I'd had a very good birth and was able to wave her away with a cheerful "No thanks --off you fuck--". Completely different to first birth, when I had no strength to tell them to leave me alone.

Bloody parasites angry

Rhubarb78 Fri 21-Dec-12 20:28:14

oh and i got the CB form shite too, told her i didnt care about that but when we registered the birth the registrar gave us one, have since found out you can download it on line too

TeamBacon Fri 21-Dec-12 20:28:59

It's bounty club on FB btw

The Bounty Birch I had was a right weirdo. She was very batty. I was shock at the time. I'm more angry now.
I have no issue with these people being a part of hospitals, as the NHS needs all the money it can get. BUT that said, it would be simple as a bit of training, how to treat people with respect. Not to disturb anyone who is going through what I did. And simply to have an "opt in" box on your maternity notes.
If they are happy to pressure sale, and lie about child benefit, they should be sacked. And I'm horrified at the idea someone can get a Bounty badge and enter a ward with children on it, let alone being allowed to walk off with the baby.

girliefriend Fri 21-Dec-12 20:33:59

I am shock at some of these stories un-bloody-believable!!!

I work for the nhs and they are borderline paranoid about confidentiality so how they get away with this I have no idea <shakes head in disbelief>

Saccrofolium Fri 21-Dec-12 20:53:10

A good friend of mind had her baby at The Portland. Bounty are even in there, but they quietly open the door and shove the pack across the floor and scurry away. You don't even see their faces. I'll bet that's on instruction.

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 20:56:57

I've emailed the NCT people on facebook asking if they would share our thread on their page

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 20:59:48

and tweeted them

MousyMouse Fri 21-Dec-12 21:03:45

hy do they need to go bed to bed?
can't they set up a stall outside in the broom cupboard ?

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 21:04:23

MNHQ - can we get this on the MN Towers FB page ? I'm feeling quite "crusadey" this evening lol

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 21:05:56

Mousey - that's exactly what I think. I've got no issues with the bounty packs but to use what is essentially pressure selling to people at their most vulnerable is disgusted and, to use one of my Dad's catchphrases, "shouldn't be allowed"

TeamBacon Fri 21-Dec-12 21:07:10

I'm sure you can just post it on the MNFB site?

FryOneFatChristmasTurkey Fri 21-Dec-12 21:07:53

I would guess many, if not all, Bounty reps are on a pay by numbers signed up sort of contract. Would explain why they push so much and won't leave people alone. And all the CB spiel too.

Despite what's on the Bounty website, I would bet they don't care how they get names, as long as they do, as each name is more money for them by sellling it on.

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 21:10:32

yes, i wondered if it was similar to BSAH where you have to do so many parties per month or you are kicked out. They probably have to gather x number of names/photos

Skang Fri 21-Dec-12 21:13:49

I didn't have anything like this with mine and I'm shocked at these stories sad

There's not anything worth having in the packs anyway.

monkey9237 Fri 21-Dec-12 21:23:17

Disgusting accounts on here, Bounty should be utterly ashamed.

Does anyone have a link to the epetition please? I've searched on the no10 epetition site under Dept of Health and by a 'Bounty' word search and it's not coming up. Thank you.

janek Fri 21-Dec-12 21:25:09

It can take up to seven days, then someone will post a link, i believe...

A link would be great, id sign it.

Some awful stories here, mine (exhausted after long induced premature labour and repeatedly woken up) just pales in comparison.

MrsReiver Fri 21-Dec-12 21:33:23

I had a pushy Bounty Bitch when I had DS but we're at a different hospital this time round, and I've just checked and there isn't a Bounty Bitch there. I take it I just won't be able to claim child benefit then wink

State, I'm so sorry you got accosted, are you going to be in for much longer?

Gooseysgirl Fri 21-Dec-12 21:35:52

Am horrified by the stories on this thread. I will happily sign the petition. I wonder have Watchdog ever covered this story? The Bounty lady at my hospital was v nice, I declined the photo as DH is a photographer (true!) and there was no problem and no harassment. That said, I completely disagree with them being on the PN wards, disgraceful way for hospitals to make money.

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 21:39:21

Once the epetition is up I will update this thread and also put it on the MN fb page

MrsGeologist Fri 21-Dec-12 21:44:04

I didn't see her with DS2,but with DS1, DH just waggled his vair fancy DSLR at her, and said, 'no thanks, I'm a photographer.'

FrameyMcFrame Fri 21-Dec-12 21:58:58

12 years ago when I had DD, I was v young and didn't know what was going on after botched epidural lumber puncture etc, couldn't even sit up. Let the Bounty woman do the photos and signed things, didn't understand what was going on ended getting some framed photos through the post that were less than good and I couldn't afford to pay for them as I was an unemployed single Mum= and ended up getting debt collectors round for the money.
Nice.

The Bounty Rep was fine when I was in having DS but the fact that she was a pleasant, not pushy lady is besides the point. I had no idea who she was, who she worked for, what the whole Bounty situation was and they end up getting your address, email address, all sorts of stuff off you before you really know what you're doing, giving you a load of forms that you can download and print off online yourself for child benefit, trying to flog photos to you, bombarding you with stupid marketing emails afterwards until you twig on to unsubscribe and I just don't understand why they are allowed onto a hospital ward to hustle vulnerable, tired mums into signing up to stuff. Seems totally immoral and, as I said, while my own experience was more or less ok, I would def sign a petition to have the practice stopped. It's not cool, people. Not cool.

whiteandyelloworchid Fri 21-Dec-12 22:13:12

ban bounty i say

vintageviolets Fri 21-Dec-12 22:16:06

Thanks for the warning x

SproutsMakeRudolphPongwiffy Fri 21-Dec-12 22:17:41

I had no idea about Bounty. Photos were taken of DD and she kept pushing me to buy the 'special Peter's which would have been ££££ I didn't realise that you don't have to give your address. I got the photos but ordered them online months later as silly as it sounds, I couldn't bear the thought of photos of newly born DD being deleted. Saved £50 compared to what she was pushing me into spending. Next time I definitely won't be having any photos etc. She pushed a teenage mum into buying a ££££ set when the mum said she wouldn't be able to afford it until payday bounty lady was convincing her to buy them.
I thought you had to let them photograph your baby. I would never let them near me again. Photos were shit in regards to the price. Better photo printing at Boots instant kiosks.

Sunnywithachanceofjinglebells Fri 21-Dec-12 22:21:03

I don't have children (and am not likely to) but I'll happily sign the petition and pass it on. Women shouldn't be hassled when they've just given birth - and even more when they've lost babies.

GlaikitFizzogTheChristmasElf Fri 21-Dec-12 22:21:03

Discussions of the day people! We had the photos done and we did buy them because it was actually quite good. However we received the pack through with the ds name spelt wrong and the wrong date of birth, second pack came, still wrong, eventually the third back was right. But we've been left with more newborn photos of ds than we know what to do with! I was handing them put to everyone who even glanced at ds!

The lady did try the "you need the pack to claim cb" but I had the savvy to put her right on that little inaccuracy.

I would happily pay my NHS trust £5 to keep the vultures away from me if I have another dc.

I'm home now MrsR just grandparents to fend off now hmm

I can't believe how horrendous some of these reps have been, its bloody awful, like I said we had the pics for ds and dd1 as we actually liked them and the rep was nice, but then she would have been we handed over our details, at the very least they need to only be allowed at set times and if a curtains shut they shouldn't bloody barge in, I always sit with my curtains open but I'd shut mine today to avoid her! Wish my dp had been there, he was fetchind dd1 from nursery, he'd have put her firmly in her place, maybe him not being there is why I was the one she persisted with...

shock These stories are terrible! I totally agree they should be banned.

I was in no fit state to make any kind of decision about money when I was in hospital after DS was born. I was only saved because DP very firmly told the rep to go away and leave me alone. What if he hadn't been there when she came round?

Taking advantage of women at their most vulnerable is disgusting, and should really be stopped.

Devora Fri 21-Dec-12 22:27:52

What an upsetting thread. I had no idea. (Clearly the owner of an ugly baby.)

FreeButtonChristmasTree Fri 21-Dec-12 22:42:47

Thanks for that link Mrs Reiver, my hospital don't seem to allow the photographers jn which is reassuring. I hate this sort of stuff but can imagine being unable to resist when weepy and hormonal.

It's also particularly bad because with the speedy discharge after birth that they have these days, it's more likely to be people with problems - either mother or baby - who are staying in for longer periods of time and so more likely to be hassled (and possibly repeatedly) when least able to handle it.

louistheseventeenth Fri 21-Dec-12 22:44:49

State, congratulations on the birth of your little one smile

I have read this thread with increasing horror.

These are salesmen/women wandering around maternity units with no supervision approaching women at the most vulnerable time of their lives.

I will gladly sign the petition when it goes live.

I have sent a link of this thread to bbc radio 4 woman's hour as I think it would make an interesting story for them and raise more awareness of the petition.

Pixel Fri 21-Dec-12 22:45:37

I never met the Bounty lady when I had dd, I came back from the toilet and a pack had appeared on my bed. I had no idea what it was as I'd not heard anything about them so I was quite pleased really. It was nearly 17 years ago and the packs must have been better then as I remember there was quite a lot in there. I can't remember all of it but there was sudocreme, a packet of washing powder and a big bottle of Johnsons baby shampoo. DD didn't have much hair so I was still using it when she was 3 and at playgroup grin.
A lady did come round asking about photos but in my addled state I didn't connect the two. She wasn't pushy though.

The bounty lady only came to me once, but as DD had a whacking bruise on her head due to headbutting my pelvis for 40mins. I kindly told her my professional photographer husband would take photos when the bruise has gone! Slight exaggeration as DH isn't quite a professional but had a camera far in excess of the Bounty lady's grin

She didn't come back to me but she did come back to others on the ward. I did give my details for the pack (didn't know much about Bounty then) and had a few phone calls after DD was born but I was feeling much better by then so sorted them out.

I don't think they should barge in and open curtains or go into side wards. They should be polite and sensitive, and you shouldn't be compelled into signing anything on the ward. Fine to take photos but they should simply send you a proof in the post (or print one out there and then) and send you home with an order form. If their photos are so brilliant and the packages such good value, then they will surely sell themselves!!

LillethTheCat Fri 21-Dec-12 22:59:44

marking my place before I go to bed so I can sign the petition too.

Horrible stories on here sad

Definitely on for the petition. It's shocking that they can pester new mums and get you to sign up for paying for photos when you're either full of pregnancy hormones or in some cases, straight up, ill. Someone said it up thread, what with lots of people going home after just a few hours, it's often unwell mums and babies that are the ones getting hassled as they're the ones on the wards.

BustyDeLaGhetto Fri 21-Dec-12 23:15:40

How very odd, after reading this thread I was half-assedly looking for jobs when I came across one for a Bounty Newborn Photographer. Incredibly the job description bandies about words like 'conscientious', 'kind', 'caring' and my personal favourite after reading this thread - 'RESPECTFUL'.

I had no experience of this, I was given a Bounty pack but I was so out of it after DD's birth it could have been handed to me by a two-headed Jabbawocky and I wouldn't have noticed.

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Fri 21-Dec-12 23:20:17

Am so shocked and sad to hear some of the stories above. I am being brave and admit I work for bounty. I love my job so much, yes I give out bags and take photos but always tell the Mums it is optional and I never try to sell them anything but give them a code so they can look at the photos when they get home. The majority of mums are pleased to see a friendly face that isn't rushed off her feet and I have made so many friends as I was lucky enough to be there in those first few precious hours. Sometime I just get the mums a cup of tea or sit with the baby whilst they had a shower, and no, we are not paid for this before anyone asks. I am very surprised and saddened to hear of your experiences with Bounty. I would be surprised if those people still work for the company. It is true that they raise a lot of money for the NHS and has help set up numerous charities such as Tommys. It has been hard reading tonight some of the comments so felt I just had to say please don't tarnish us all with the same brush.

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 23:27:20

the trouble is, dontbeatmeup, that there are obviously lots of bounty ladies that aren't very nice and friendly and are only interested in pushing things.

Would you mind answering whether you have sign-up targets or are paid "piecemeal" ?

oldwomanwholivesinashoe Fri 21-Dec-12 23:28:23

I had no idea Bounty were so intrusive. I have 5 children - my first dd (many years ago now!) was photographed by a Bounty photographer, mum told me it was a good idea! DD1 looked a bit like a monkey in them, but mum got them as a gift and we now use them to make fun of DD1.
My next 2 children were born at weekends and so no Bounty people around. I didn't even think about it. Then when I had DD2, 2 years ago, it was a weekday! When he was born, he was a bit squashed and bruised and DH and I both agreed he was a bit "funny looking" but still very cute and of course, perfect to us. Then the Bounty woman appeared, gave us her spiel, and got the camera out. I blurted out, "Oh, I don't want any photos of him, he doesn't look very nice does he? We might get some photos done later, if he improves."
She was speechless, dropped some leaflets on the bed and left, giving me disgusted glances as she walked out.
In hindsight, I did sound like the worst mother in the world but I just meant that he wasn't at his best and I would rather have photos of him in a week or so when his birth injuries had settled!
Now hearing all these stories I'm glad I stopped her in her tracks! How dare these people try to manipulate new parents and force them to spend money like this. Most brand new babies are a bit battered and squashed and there are so many amazing local photographers who take newborn pics in Anne Geddes style and I would certainly rather hand my money over to them (if I wanted newborn photos!) and have some arty pics when the baby was at his/her best and settled at home.
Imagine if reps from baby formula companies or baby food companies were to come onto the wards and try to sign new mums up to their brand? That's just as unethical!!

RedToothbrush Fri 21-Dec-12 23:31:41

Frankly I don't think it matters if you are the 'nice' bounty lady or the 'nasty' one. Its intrusive and you shouldn't be there, since you are trying to sell ON A HOSPITAL WARD TO POTENTIALLY VULNERABLE PEOPLE UNINVITED. I'd have a hard time being civil to anyone I found out who did that for a living as its exploitative regardless of how you behave.

Lots of people don't want door to door salesmen and won't open the door to them and yet you can't escape them on a hospital ward. Its sick, sick, sick.

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 23:33:01

That's an interesting thought, oldwoman. If, let's say, SMA offered the NHS £20 per woman that they were able to give a (subtly underming) "breastfeeding lesson" to in the postnatal ward would they take it ?

GreatCongas Fri 21-Dec-12 23:33:32

Isn't there something in law about crafting contracts with someone who is vulnerable?

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 23:33:48

Lots of people don't want door to door salesmen and won't open the door to them and yet you can't escape them on a hospital ward
Good point Red

RedToothbrush Fri 21-Dec-12 23:36:06

Greatcongas, its against trading standards.

You aren't allowed to upsell a coffin as a funeral director for example.

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Fri 21-Dec-12 23:36:34

Ohdear, no we are not targeted but we are reminded that the most complaints we get from customer services are from Mums that have not been given their bags, and often come back in the hospital to get them so we have to be seen available every morning for Mums.

RedToothbrush Fri 21-Dec-12 23:38:31

Why can't you sit in a room next to the ward, rather than going round bed to bed then?

Its harassment.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 21-Dec-12 23:40:36

Pixel

20 years ago the packs were good. Full sized products and several to a bag. They also just gave you the packs and each had a form in that you could fill out and send back but you didn't have to, to get it.

But now they hound you for details, its not right. Loads of people think they are hospital employees, and they do not make it clear they arnt

GreatCongas Fri 21-Dec-12 23:42:09

I thought to redtoothbrush

And I'm glad you knew what I meant as it autocorrected creating to crafting (still made sense actually)

So are the harassing bounty people breaking the law then

BurnThisDiscoDown Fri 21-Dec-12 23:42:41

My experience was nowhere near as bad as some others on this thread, but I did feel under pressure. My Bounty lady turned up just after my DH had been sent home for lunch so I was by myself, I'd had DS literally 3 hours previously in about 2 hours, so I was almost in shock I think. She came into the ward, told me she was here to take the photos, took them, then said I had to order them there and then. Then she asked for payment, I was a bit out of it so lied and said I hadn't got my purse with me. That sounds really pathetic, and normally I'd refuse to order anything until I'd looked through the options, spoken to DH etc, but I was absolutely knackered and a bit out of it, and just couldn't handle it. I felt really vulnerable that she'd turned up when she did, it was almost as though she'd waited til DH had gin

OhDearNigel Fri 21-Dec-12 23:43:04

my issue is not with giving out bags - i loved my free stuff; my issue is with the selling of very expensive photo packages to people who are recovering from a massive and sometimes very unpleasant event, who are chock full of hormones, tired and generally in no mood to argue. After I gave birth I would have agreed to have my arm cut off I was so high on my hormone cocktail. And the obtaining of personal detail so that more aggressively targeted marketing can be sent out.

louistheseventeenth Fri 21-Dec-12 23:43:17

Don'tbeatmeupitsxmas...

As the caring bounty lady you watch newborn babies whilst their mothers have showers...

And you think thats ok? shock

At this point words have failed me so I'm going to bed.

BurnThisDiscoDown Fri 21-Dec-12 23:46:00

Crap, fat fingers! She literally turned up within seconds of DH leaving the ward, like she'd been waiting.

lookoveryourshouldernow Fri 21-Dec-12 23:48:03

...ooohhh - disagree

Would have loved some photos of me and my little one in the early hours of his life - even though I was knackered, stitched up and drugged up to the hilt...

I have some photos three days later - but it is not quite the same .....

jinglebellyalltheway Fri 21-Dec-12 23:48:14

dontbeatmeup if the new mums own mothers were allowed on the ward when buisness reps like you are THEY could sit with the babies and get their daughters cups of tea

it is a vile profession, it is targetted selling in a place where you should be safe from it, at a time when there is no visiting so that the women SHOULD have a bit more privacy than they have during visiting hours, you are basically a member of the public, like a sky tv package sales man! and I don't want them or you trawling into the ward while I'm in that vulnerable state, whether you're polite or not and whether you love seeing all the ickle babies or not!

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Fri 21-Dec-12 23:50:00

Red tooth, because a lot of new mums are immobile. I always check with the ward clerk if there are any poorly mums or babies and do not visit them for reasons listed above by my hopefully ex collegues. I have been on mumsnet for a long time (yes name chAnged but I'm sure you don't blame me) but it is the same as boots, pampers etc just get the vouchers And updates you feel benefit you then unsubscribe.

jinglebellyalltheway Fri 21-Dec-12 23:51:54

plus, a lot of those mums who are happy to see you, do not know what you are! and are too out of it to really probe you about it! they just see a name badge and a logo they associate with their antenatal care and think it should be fine or you wouldn't be there, its only later that they hate the fact they were sucked in!

Orenishii Fri 21-Dec-12 23:53:44

It was only thanks to reading about the reps on here that I knew to be wary of them. I was traumatised after a difficult birth, and more intent on DS and getting the hell out of the hospital (I desperately wanted to go home) so I just kept shutting my room door in the reps face after repeating a bit manically "Not interested!"

jinglebellyalltheway Fri 21-Dec-12 23:53:50

x posted
it is NOTHING! NOTHING like the boots parenting club or tescos parenting club etc... because you sign up to them when you are in a normal mental state!

RedToothbrush Fri 21-Dec-12 23:54:57

I can't find the pdf guide to The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 as it appears that its offline as the OFT update their website. It has some cracking examples of what you can and can not do.

Its uses examples such as a salesman standing between a customer and a doorway so they can not leave freely. So what happens when a potential customer is in a hospital bed and can't leave freely then?

I do however have the list, minus examples, of what are classed as aggressive practises:

Aggressive commercial practices

7.—(1) A commercial practice is aggressive if, in its factual context, taking account of all of its features and circumstances—

(a)it significantly impairs or is likely significantly to impair the average consumer’s freedom of choice or conduct in relation to the product concerned through the use of harassment, coercion or undue influence; and

(b)it thereby causes or is likely to cause him to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.

(2) In determining whether a commercial practice uses harassment, coercion or undue influence account shall be taken of—

(a)its timing, location, nature or persistence;

(b)the use of threatening or abusive language or behaviour;

(c)the exploitation by the trader of any specific misfortune or circumstance of such gravity as to impair the consumer’s judgment, of which the trader is aware, to influence the consumer’s decision with regard to the product;

(d)any onerous or disproportionate non-contractual barrier imposed by the trader where a consumer wishes to exercise rights under the contract, including rights to terminate a contract or to switch to another product or another trader; and

(e)any threat to take any action which cannot legally be taken.

(3) In this regulation—

(a)“coercion” includes the use of physical force; and

(b)“undue influence” means exploiting a position of power in relation to the consumer so as to apply pressure, even without using or threatening to use physical force, in a way which significantly limits the consumer’s ability to make an informed decision.

There are also clear breeches if Bounty are using misleading information (such as saying you can't get the CB elsewhere) under clauses about misleading people.

So like I say, I don't give a shit if you are a nice or nasty Bounty sales rep. If you are approaching someone in a hospital bed you are breaking trading standards and its about bloody time someone started questioning whats going on, and started actually using these regulations as its clear as day there is a problem here.

jinglebellyalltheway Fri 21-Dec-12 23:55:51

you could probably easily get annulled if you got married on the post natal ward when you were still dazed and confused and full of drugs, noone would think it was a good time to sign a contract!

but try and get out of Bounty's junk mail after your baby has died - not so easy!

GoingGoingGoth Fri 21-Dec-12 23:55:58

Marking place, so I can sign petition

GreatCongas Fri 21-Dec-12 23:56:07

Nicely done redtoothbrush

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Fri 21-Dec-12 23:57:37

Louis, yes when I've finished my shift twice I have returned to two mums who I got on really well with who were dying for a shower/bath and told them if their husband wasn't there by then I would watch the baby for them. Blimey they were a lot more appreciative of it than you.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 21-Dec-12 23:58:00

louis

She's been very brave admitting she works for them, she does not own the company, has said she does not condone what the shit ones do to pressure new mums.

So do you really need to rip into her about watching a newborn in a ward surrounded by other mums and mw's( that would have been left in its fish bowl and occasionally glanced at by a mw) whilst mum had a shower?

Obviously as long as mum was not pressured to buy the photo because of this,what's the big deal?

Taking these sort of threads down those types of routes sadly means they tend to get ignored by people who could make changes.

Bottom line is several reps pressure loads and misrepresent themselves and they shouldn't be there to do this in the first place.

No real need now either due to camera phones ect.

RedToothbrush Fri 21-Dec-12 23:58:25

Red tooth, because a lot of new mums are immobile.

PRECISELY WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BE SELLING TO THEM UNTIL THEY ARE MOBILE.

You approach them when they are immobile as they are unable to make a free choice whether to have the photos. If you were just there and didn't approach beds you'd get less sales. Think about it for two seconds about why that constitutes an aggressive sales technic...

Kleptronic Sat 22-Dec-12 00:03:40

The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008

Absolutely agreed this is pressured selling and against the law. It needs a test case bringing, but who has the wherewithal to bring a case when they've got a newborn? That is why this company gets away with it.

ShakeyStevens Sat 22-Dec-12 00:07:07

My conversation with the Bounty lady went like this:

Bounty: I'm here to take the security photo of your baby (getting camera ready)
Me: No, thanks. The hospital doesn't need a security photo, she has a wrist band and an ankle band on.
Bounty: Don't you want a first photo of your baby?
Me: Don't worry, we've already taken about 50
Bounty: Right hmm , well if you can just fill in this form I can give you your pack
Me: No thanks, I'd rather not give out my personal details, we get enough junk mail as it is
Bounty: But if you don't fill in the form you won't get a pack?
Me: Thats fine
Bounty: It has lots of freebies in it, nappy cream and wipes
Me: No, its fine, thanks anyway
Bounty: But you won't get your pack and it has your CB form in it
Me: Thats ok, we can get the forms from the Post Office
Bounty: But you are meant to get them from the pack
Me: Well, I'll get one at the PO
Bounty: Well, if you think you will get the chance to go to the PO with a newborn...
Me: I'm sure we'll manage, DH works next door to it
Bounty: Can I tell you about the lovely photo packages, they are a lovely souvenir or gift for a new grandparent
Me: ....... <loses patience>

Thankfully with my second I was home within a few hours so was long gone before the Bounty woman came around the next morning.

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 00:07:50

"but who has the wherewithal to bring a case when they've got a newborn? That is why this company gets away with it"

yup sad same reason that companies that sell ruinous financial products to confused elderly people get away with it!

The Bounty reps could peddle their wares at antenatal classes instead.. or at BF groups, but they don't because they don't sell to people who are 'with it', they sell it to people who are shell shocked and often drugged and who just want to get into some sort of normality at home with their new child, so don't complain straight away.. then feel it's too late

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Sat 22-Dec-12 00:09:19

Thanks sock I really am horrified by some of these stories and I wish I could take all of you I to work with me to see how I see it through my eyes. I am not a sales person I am a distributor I give out bags, I offer Mums photos and if they want to have them done, great. I will do the best photos I can, part of the money goes to the maternity ward and the Mums can buy them from £15 which I know is not a rip off (as long as its a good photo) as I have kids of my own and have spent a fortune on pictures. I do completely understand everyone's view though on the intrusion etc.

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 00:11:20

and what photography credentials do you have?

you're not a sales person? so your pay isn't at all affected if noone buys the photos or if they all tick the "do not contact" box and just take the bags? really?

I think you're missing the point, it doesn't matter how nicely you do it, the fact that you are there at all is wrong!

wonderstuff Sat 22-Dec-12 00:12:30

I wonder if some hospitals are better at controlling them than others. My hospital is fantastic, was very sensitive to me though miscarriage and poorly babies - and the bounty pack was given to me by midwife and bounty lady I think asked politely if we would like photos and then left when we declined - I don't really remember that well tbh, but I would have remembered if she had been rude or insensitive. Some of these stories are awful!

quoteunquote Sat 22-Dec-12 00:12:33

It has been hard reading tonight some of the comments so felt I just had to say please don't tarnish us all with the same brush

Oh Ok

you work for a company that makes money out of dead babies. they pay you with blood money,

but it must be all the other bounty women who collect baby names and details and when those babies die, Bounty refuse to remove those details from those list, but that's not a problem for bounty, just the parents and siblings of those babies.

Bounty are not interested in doing anything to stop selling dead babies details.

Imagine if a mum came on this forum and asked, AIBU to make money out of my dead baby?

she would be tracked down and shredded,

sorry you are in denial, but you work for one very sick company.

Reading what you've just posted redtoothbrudh - it sounds like Bounty are seriously contravening Trading Standards.

I think that xmas has been brave to admit she works for them, when clearly so many women on here hate the Bounty Lady. I personally think it is disgusting that brand new mums (possibly still in a state of shock/high on drugs/unable to move) are essentially hounded in some cases for a few poxy photos.
What should happen is that when you arrive at the hospital (maybe in your notes?) you should be asked if you are interested in Bounty. If you are not, she is not allowed to talk to you at all.

To be honest, it makes me think anyone could get a job for Bounty, and then they'd be allowed to wander round the wards collecting addresses etc. Are Bounty Ladies CRB checked etc?

ShakeyStevens Sat 22-Dec-12 00:15:06
jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 00:17:23

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas

so your mother is in hospital with a raging UTI which makes her a bit confused, a sales rep comes onto her ward OUTSIDE of visiting hours, and "distributes" some freebees/advertising shite to her in exchange for her details to be sold on to agressive marketting companies who will hound her despite repeated requests to stop

that's okay?, so long as they did it nicely? they're just nice people doing a job they love huh?

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 00:17:59

and the photos ARE a total rip off considering the sales reps they recruit are not photographers!

To be honest, how many babies look gorgeous as soon as they come out? Most are squished, bruised, veiny, and generally odd looking for a few days.

There is nothing I treasure more than the photo of me, OH and baby, taken by my midwife, baby was only 15 minutes old. I'd take that over any posed photo that cost £15 any day.

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Sat 22-Dec-12 00:23:33

Quote unquote, in the awful event of an infant death the Midwife In charge has a form to complete which we act on immediately to remove the mothers details if she is listed with bounty. Am so sorry you went through this I can't imagine how awful it was, unfortunately I have to make a few of these phone calls as soon as we get notification from the midwife.

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 00:26:11

hmm, not a sales person?.. its comission only.. Sales experience desired... nothing about PHOTOGRAPHY experience though hmm

www.reed.co.uk/jobs/photographer-bounty-distribution-co-ordinator/22395970#/jobs/bounty-uk/p6567

RedToothbrush Sat 22-Dec-12 00:26:12

Of course they are. And its made worse by the fact that hospitals are enabling this, and therefore people are under the mistaken idea that its somehow therefore acceptable, when its very clearly not.

There is no way you can possibly have sales people (and yes you are a sales person if you are merely handing out bags too, as you sign people up and are selling their details on to a third party in return - they are NOT free packs). on a hospital ward visiting people in bed and NOT be controvening Trading Standards, as it breaks 2a and c straight away:

(2) In determining whether a commercial practice uses harassment, coercion or undue influence account shall be taken of—
(a)its timing, location, nature or persistence;
(c)the exploitation by the trader of any specific misfortune or circumstance of such gravity as to impair the consumer’s judgment, of which the trader is aware, to influence the consumer’s decision with regard to the product;

More clauses from the PDF:
Harassment, coercion and undue influence
8.3Harassment and coercion are not expressly defined in the CPRs but include both physical and non-physical, (including psychological) pressure.

Significant Impairment or Limitation
8.5The CPRs refer to practices that ‘significantly impair’ and those that ‘significantly limit’ decisions (the latter is in the definition of undue influence).These are likely to have a very similar meaning and both will depend on the context.
8.6Significant impairment might occur when, for example, a trader stays in a consumer’s home for so long that they feel compelled to sign a contract for a product.

Freedom of choice or conduct
8.7The concept of freedom of choice is not limited solely to decisions about whether to purchase a product or not. It covers a wide range of choices that are likely to impact on transactional decisions.

Really, how can they NOT be breaking a whole pile of things VISITING PEOPLE IN HOSPITAL BEDS? Its completely and utterly beyond me.

Narked Sat 22-Dec-12 00:28:02

You're a sales rep.

If you walk up to people, unsolicited, offering to take picture in exchange for money, you're cold selling. The packs are used as a prop to get details off people. Those details are then sold for profit.

In a best case scenario you're approaching vulnerable people, often drugged and in pain, with a couple of sample size products that entitle them to a lifetime of junk mail. And you sell them overpriced pictures taken by someone with no photography credentials. You walk around the ward as though you have a right to be there - as though you're part of the hospital staff - when you're a salesperson.

Narked Sat 22-Dec-12 00:30:24

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ArkadyRose Sat 22-Dec-12 00:30:42

Dontbeatmeupitsmas Have you ever been CRB checked?

ShakeyStevens Sat 22-Dec-12 00:33:49

Since digital cameras and phones with cameras became commonplace there is just no need at all for the Bounty lady. The packs can be left in a bookcase somewhere around the ward, or if the MWs are willing they could give them out (doubt this though) with a post box for any completed forms that a new mum wishes to submit to Bounty. These completed forms could be collected by a Bounty person from the hospital main desk once a week, dropping new packs off at the same time. There is utterly no need for the Bounty salesperson to be on the ward at all.

PurpleTinsel Sat 22-Dec-12 00:36:25

Agree Bounty reps can be a problem.

DS was 6 weeks early, and taken straight to SCBU because he needed help breathing and had a few other issues.

The midwives kindly put me in a private room on the post-natal ward, which was good of them, because seeing all the other new mums with healthy babies right next to them made me feel a bit emotional.

The Bounty lady threw the door to my room open, looked at the empty cot in the corner, and demanded to know what I'd done with my baby angry
Although she did just skulk off when I told her he was in SCBU, so better than some of the Bounty ladies other people on this thread came across.

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas - I did wonder at the time if the Bounty ladies are supposed to check in with the midwives to see if there's new mums that they shouldn't hassle - i.e. mums with babies in SCBU/NICU or with stillborn babies - can you answer that question?

(Incidentally, the neo-natal nurses working in SCBU took a few photos of DS and came and gave them to me for free before he was 12 hours old. Maybe not professional standard photos, but pretty good quality considering that he was in an incubater at the time.)

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 22-Dec-12 00:37:22

I'm not going to knock someone for having a job when they are so rare if they act with in the rules and are honest.

Nor am I going to knock them for working where there employer tells them to.

But sure as the sun rises i will knock the hospitals who let them do it and the directors of the company who profit massively from it.

They have about as much a place in hospitals post natal wards as a Weatherspoons would.

RedToothbrush Sat 22-Dec-12 00:39:07

BANNED PRACTICEs (sChEDULE 1)
(25) Conducting personal visits to the consumer’s home ignoring the consumer’s request to leave or not to return except in circumstances and to the extent justified13 to enforce a contractual obligation.
A door to door salesman visits a consumer to sell her some cleaning products. She tells him she is not interested and asks him to leave. He is determined to try and get her to change her mind and continues his sales pitch on her doorstep.This would breach the CPRs.

Giving false information to, or deceiving, customers
7.3A misleading action occurs when a practice misleads through the information it contains, or its deceptive presentation, and causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a different decision.

8.4Undue influence is defined in regulation 7(3)(b) of the CPRs as:
‘exploiting a position of power in relation to the consumer so as to apply pressure, even without using or threatening to use physical force, in a way which significantly limits the consumer’s ability to make an informed decision’.

Note: simply swanning around a ward without properly informing someone you are a salesperson rather than a health professional put you in a position of power.
Note: approaching an immobile person, probably also puts you in a position of power too.

quoteunquote Sat 22-Dec-12 00:39:30

sorry, that might be what is meant to happen, but it's not what does happen,

after 12 years do not think we tried everything? as have countless other parents.

it comes up at baby loss support a lot, breaks my heart as parents still go through the extra unnecessary crap we did,

Bounty are total shits.

leaving the thread now, it's making me feel stabby, and bounty have had far to much of my energy over the years. fucking vile bastards,

I have to make a few of these phone calls oh hard, start a support group,

You do know they do fuck all with that information at the other end, they have already sold on the details, but you tell yourself what ever you want, just don't start to try and justify anything that bounty does, you are defending a truly sick organisation.

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 00:40:02

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Selks Sat 22-Dec-12 00:40:24

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IneedAsockamnesty Sat 22-Dec-12 00:44:33

I did actually mean be honest to the mother of the baby at points of contact.

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Sat 22-Dec-12 00:47:56

Yes am crb checked and have been on numerous photography courses and registered with the MPA. Narked I am not a stupid woman. I would hope a HV would be able to notify the appropriate people and support the Mum, dad and siblings. This has been a shock to the system tonight, all my friends and most Mums at the hospital tell me what a lovely job I have.

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 00:50:42

a lot of those mums don't know that you are the reason for those horrible aggressive home security scare mongering calls that they get during the peak of their PND, they think it's coincidence!

EmpressOfTheNorthPole Sat 22-Dec-12 00:52:21

I've just googled & they do ask for CRB checks on some of the vacancies advertised.

I bet none of the senior people at Bounty would have the guts to come on here for a webchat and defend themselves.

What do you think, Dontbeatmeup?

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 00:54:24

I really don't think any of those mums or your friends would really think you had a "lovely job" if they knew what you were collecting women's info for!

ShakeyStevens Sat 22-Dec-12 00:55:24

Why would a HV think to contact Bounty if a baby died?

Bounty aren't anyone official they are just a company hoping to make a quick buck, it isn't down to a HV to contact them when something happens. How ridiculous.
Should the HVs contact the Early Learning Centre to remove toddlers from their birthday club if they die too?

I very much doubt the community MWs contact Bounty much either, if you hadn't noticed the NHS inc MWs are rather stretched.

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 00:56:59

did you even know yourself?

did you know that if you contact them to tell them your baby/child has died, they DO NOT pass that on to the companies that they have already sold your info to?

did you know that they sell to companies such as the home security ones that use scare mongering at a time when they know women with PND are likely to be most vulnerable?

did you know that about your lovely job? do you still think it's lovely?

PurpleTinsel Sat 22-Dec-12 00:57:33

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas - are the Bounty ladies supposed to check in with the midwives to see if there's women that they shouldn't hassle - i.e. women with babies in SCBU/NICU or with stillborn babies - can you answer that question?

Because that sort of thing just causes unneccessary additional distress to vunerable women.

Saccrofolium Sat 22-Dec-12 01:05:40

You know what, I think some of you should back right off. She didnt have to come on here at all, or answer any questions. If you don't like what Bounty does then get hold of their management or better yet, the heads of maternity services who enter into these contracts.
To rip into a single individual for the job they is disgraceful.

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Sat 22-Dec-12 01:08:53

Yes purpletinsel every morning I check with the midwife in charge for babies in scbu, mums who are poorly or csections who should rest and see them in a few days. Anyway, I have the mother in law coming for Christmas so I really need some sleep, as a longtime mumsnetter myself, apart from the few stupid personal Insults, it was genuinely thought provoking tonight. Will make sure I look after all the new mums as usual but with extra clarity r.e info gathered.

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 01:10:02

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EmpressOfTheNorthPole Sat 22-Dec-12 01:11:32

Does no-one else think we should try to get someone on for a webchat?

ravenAK Sat 22-Dec-12 01:12:15

'look after all the new mums'?!

There's some real confusion going on here re: the distinction between hospital staff & sales reps.

No wonder it's sometimes hard for those 'new mums' to tell the difference. Buggers got me twice (out of three) with their poxy sudocreme samples & I'm normally as hardbitten & sceptical as they come wrt cold sellers.

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Sat 22-Dec-12 01:12:33

Thanks sacro, it's only a part time job and there's not many of them around at the moment.

JoanByers Sat 22-Dec-12 01:13:16

Eh? Some people here have had very unpleasant, unacceptable experiences.

If dontbeatmeup doesn't like it, she can hide the thread. She hasn't been asked to post - she has chosen chosen to join in a thread full of very angry women.

Her choice. People are not going to go easy on Bounty because someone has admitted to working for them. That's not the point.

This job should not exist. There is not going to be a middle ground here.

If someone started a thread saying 'I'm in £50k of debt because of door-to-door loan salesmen', and someone came on saying 'Actually I'm a door-to-door loan salesman', it wouldn't change the fact that it's an unacceptable job to do.

Dontbeatmeup's job is not going anywhere. She is anonymous. She makes money from exploiting vulnerable women, whose details are then sold on.

If she wants to defend herself about that - good for her.

But don't ask people to go easy on her.

RedToothbrush Sat 22-Dec-12 01:21:44

To rip into a single individual for the job they is disgraceful.

Why if it effectively breaking the law...? Especially if they are naively unaware of why and are still defending their job after being told why its a problem and why its distressing.

I'd love to know whether Dontbeatmeupitsxmas would change the way she works after reading this thread and stop going on the ward and harassing woman in a vulnerable position. I sincerely doubt it, as I still get the impression that she thinks its ok to go onto the ward.

Given a lot of women don't even know about the Bounty lady before going on a ward, then they can't tell the midwife to tell the bounty lady to fuck off in advance. At best from what Dontbeatmeupitsxmas says, she gets them in the end when the midwife sees fit. Not when the woman decides to make a free decision to approach the Bounty Lady. Its the wrong way round and thats the entire problem here.

Narked Sat 22-Dec-12 01:29:19

Do you think salespeople have any place on a maternity ward? It's that simple really. They are salespeople, who take details of mothers and sell them on for profit. They're not some benevolent organisation that exist to provide free sudocreme for all. They pay hospitals kick backs from their sales for the right to get their hands on new mothers when they are exhausted post labour.

If you want to spend money on pictures of your baby there are dozens of companies that will happily take your money off you. Only one has bought the right to wander around the wards outside of visiting times, often indistinguishable from hospital staff.

Rindercella Sat 22-Dec-12 01:31:51

Tell me dontbeatmeup, if you are not targeted, how exactly are you paid by Bounty? As all of the job ads I have seen (and there are many) say the OTE is made up of performance related pay and commission. If you are coming on here to defend the job you do, then at least give us the courtesy of being honest.

I cannot quite get my head around the fact that after DD2 was born my 75 year old MIL was forced to stand outside the ward while DH & DD1 visited me as she wasn't immediate family, and yet these commission earning sales reps are allowed to wander the wards at will, opening closed doors and pulling back closed curtains on new mothers. And then pressure them to spend money on unasked for photographs and sign away their personal data.

It. Is. Fucking. Outrageous.

Something has to be done about this. I see the NCT have already highlighted it. I think it's time for MN to join forces and get this vile practice stopped.

Sorry dontbeatmeup, I guess it will mean you'll be out of a job soon. I hope you manage to find a position with a more ethical organisation.

Narked Sat 22-Dec-12 01:32:54

As people have said earlier, imagine if salespeople were allowed to wander through other hospital departments like this. If someone pushed back the curtain in A&E and asked where you had your accident whilst offering you a drink and a sandwich. And handed you a form to fill out. I'm sure ambulance chasing personal injury firms would be willing to pay for the privilege.

luanmahi Sat 22-Dec-12 01:36:01

Definitely shouldn't be allowed.

RedToothbrush Sat 22-Dec-12 01:39:35

Rindercella there was a thread on this subject earlier in the year. MNHQ were asked about a campaign on it. They said they would look into it as it was clearly a massive problem that was causing a lot of distress, but clearly its not gone any further.

I guess one of the problems with that is that Bounty itself its a direct competitor to MN with its parenting forums and that maybe caused them to have a conflict of interests.

Would be interesting to know exactly why MNHQ never took the ball and ran with it as a campaign though.

Narked Sat 22-Dec-12 01:40:33

Look after? Really? Do you provide medication? Clean sheets? Perform necessary medical checks? Offer BF support or help to the bathroom? Or do you collect personal data to be sold on to private companies and encourage someone to spend money on photos?

RedToothbrush Sat 22-Dec-12 01:43:55

btw... 'Look after' someone and then selling to them in this context would also constitute an abuse of a position of power... perhaps by making someone feel obliged to buy off you.

Aggressive Sales.

RedToothbrush Sat 22-Dec-12 01:44:07

looking after*

Narked Sat 22-Dec-12 01:44:55

It's the underhand way it's done. It's reasonable to assume that someone approaching you with forms to fill in and a child benefit form to give you, who is wandering around during staff only time, is hospital staff. And your boundaries are down as well, because when you've had half a dozen people looking up your vagina, being asked your address hardly seems intrusive.

Rindercella Sat 22-Dec-12 01:51:56

Red, thank you. I hadn't seen the thread from earlier in the year. It had crossed my mind that MN & Bounty are in competition. Thankfully though MNHQ hasn't yet recruited a load of commission based sales reps to hound vulnerable mothers in the first few hours/days postpartum in their hospital beds on a supposedly secure maternity ward.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 22-Dec-12 01:53:29

Sales people have no place in hospital wards but why rip in to a employee at the very bottom and demand they change things they are in no position to do.

Her employer sends her there, her employer arranged the deal with the hospital and the hospital accept money from her employer for her being there.

She didnt lie when she said she's not a sales person, I don't know even one photographer who would actively describe themselves as anything other than a photographer. And not many people who collect names ect and give out sample packs would describe themselves as sales people either.

Unless you think she should quit her job instantly and be unemployed what else do you think she has the power to change or do?

Not steal details when the mother refuses to provide them,
Not pressure with insults or refusals to leave if service declined,
Not say she has to take the photo for anything other than a keep sake and be open about it being optional.
Don't use the child benefit lie.
Dont approach mothers with ill babies unless mw says its ok.
Dont refuse to hear the word no.

She's already said she personally does none of these things

Take out your anger on the people who can change it,the ones who don't risk getting the sack from a low paid job by refusing to go to work so will still be able to eat the next day.

Rindercella Sat 22-Dec-12 01:56:22

I have just remembered about the Bounty book club too. Fair enough, it's not reps in a maternity ward. But I remember a rep from there hounded me by phone when DD1 was young. In the end I had to threaten going to trading standards as with every request to remove me from their database was just met with further calls. I recall arguing with him that I did not want to join the club (thanks to a heads' up on here) and he was ever so surprised as it was "free". Yeah, course it was.

tothemoon Sat 22-Dec-12 02:05:30

Actually getting angry reading through these horrifying stories. My SIL has just paid out £140 on Bounty photo's. I'd heard of them with ttc but reading this is crazy! If one of them flung my curtain open I'd scream at her to get the fuck out and I mean scream! No matter how out of it I am. You can't take photo's of your own children at school plays but you can have randoms with a camera prowling the labour wards. I'm outraged.

sashh Sat 22-Dec-12 02:05:50

DOn'r just complain to the hospital start calling the police.

The first time they are doing their job, although in a crappy way, at this point get their name and phone number, and tell them if they come back again it is harassement and you will call the police.

Rindercella Sat 22-Dec-12 02:06:18

You probably would describe yourself as a sales rep if you worked for Venture. And I put Bounty even lower down the food chain than them.

All the job ads I have seen state that it's a commission & performance related pay 'salary'. Therefore it absolutely IS defined as a sales job. Wrt to their pho graphs skills... Experience is preferred but not essential.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 22-Dec-12 02:06:32

Was that the book thing that was like a catalogue, with 'helpful' advice in?

I remember them as being basically loaded with ad's for very expensive baby equipment most of it not needed and most of the advice pages were actually sponsored ad's as well.

If so dreadful things useless to read unless your a first time parent who believes you need to spend £150 on a wipe warmer or some other bit of useless tat and all prams cost over a grand, and they don't even make very good fire lighters.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 22-Dec-12 02:10:50

I'm guessing venture is a bit like double take?

If so the camera operators there do call themselves photographers and they are also performance and commission based pay.

squoosh Sat 22-Dec-12 02:12:03

I think it would be most cost effective for Bounty if whilst exploiting vulnerable post natal women for the details of their newborns that the sales reps popped upstairs to the geriatric ward and gathered data on those who were about to snuff it. I'm sure there's some extra cash to be made there. And we all know Bounty are all about the cash!

Frankly I'm outraged that these sleazy sales people are permitted to stalk maternity wards bullying women in order to meet their sales targets. Taxpayers fund the NHS, hands up who has agreed to fund the bullying and intimidation of new mothers.

Rindercella Sat 22-Dec-12 02:16:20

I guess I just like to call a spade a spade Sock. You can dress up a job title any way you want. I am sure the Bounty rep here could say she was an Executive Photographic Memory Consultant, but she'd still be a sales rep, taking unasked for photos and capturing personal data which is then sold on to external companies. From vulnerable women who have just given birth.

Rindercella Sat 22-Dec-12 02:18:04

If you google Bounty sales reps, there are loads of links to newspaper articles & forum debates about exactly this, some dating back several years.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 22-Dec-12 02:19:30

Incidentally I'm not saying she should be there and I'm not saying she's not a sales person.

I think no one should be able to go round the wards doing this.

I'm just saying that its not unusual for someone who receives money because they take photos to call themselves a photographer, so she is not lying by doing so.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 22-Dec-12 02:25:55

Xposted.

I agree with you that the company is scum there practices are horrible. But all the people that work there will not operate in such a foul way, some of them may not even know what the personal details are for.

I think its a practice that should be banned.

But I just happen to also think that its not really ok to go hell for leather and give verbal pastings to someone who as far as we are aware has never done any of the things people are talking about or has no power to change how the company does things.

Rindercella Sat 22-Dec-12 02:28:04

It's like Chinese whispers this Sock grin

What I specifically pulled don't up on was her assertion that she is not targeted, not that she wasn't a sales rep.

squoosh Sat 22-Dec-12 02:57:09

Hmm, beacuse it's more hurtful for a sales rep to be given a pasting than it is for a new mother to be bullied by a sales rep desperate for another sale.

If you choose to work for such a company then you have to accept that their reputation will reflect on you as an employee.

CordeliaChase Sat 22-Dec-12 03:49:16

My bounty lady was lovely. She just came by, gave me a pack and cooed over my DS. Didn't tell me to fill anything out, told me to take the free samples and bin the rest if I wanted. I was in for 8 days, she brought me a few packs round over the week. They do the bounty photography away from the post natal wards though, and you make the decision yourself if you want to contact them to get pictures done. No pushy sales people roaming the wards. Just one nice lady every few days handing out packs. smile

treaclesoda Sat 22-Dec-12 06:00:16

I was very lucky I think - Bounty lady just gave me the pack, didn't hassle me for details. I got a few wipes and some Sudocrem but I haven't been hounded with junk mail or phonecalls.There was a photographer who wanted to take photos, but thinking back I can't remember if they were from Bounty or some other company. In any case, I declined and whilst she seemed a little surprised, she didn't make a fuss.

But, having said all that, I had no idea how evil Bounty were, and if I had known I think I would have told them to shove their bag - it was crap anyway.

I will definitely be signing the petition when its available, the way some people here have been treated is outrageous.

notcitrus Sat 22-Dec-12 06:01:50

Another one who was told I wouldn't be able to claim CB unless I gave my details for the pack. Luckily that was 2 days after birth when ds was out of SCBU, I was sentient, and bored as hell, so told her that wasn't true and pull the other one.

She said she'd "check with her supervisor", and stepped outside the room for a minute. Forgetting there was a window in the door. She then came back in with the form.

My birth plan with dd basically said "want to avoid pn ward, please tell Bounty to get stuffed so I don't have to". I was on the ward overnight, woman turns up, DH says your photos are crap, just give us the CB form. She laughed and did and buggered off.

My first antenatal appt the MW gave me the pack saying don't get too excited, the only useful bit is the plastic envelope to keep your notes clean. Which was great as I tipped coffers over it a few times. Tried turning it inside out for dd but didn't work.

The contents of the packs were even more crap this year than 2008 - down from about £5 of stuff to a single teabag!

Goatbongohohoandjinglejingle Sat 22-Dec-12 06:30:12

WTR to the bounty lady who says that she is nice to all the mums - I'm afraid I think this can be a form of insidious blackmail as well. When I was on then ward, my DS was in NICjust acing just had surgery twice. I hadn't seen him since birth four days previously (when i had seen him for all of about ten seconds) as I was too ill to leave bed. The midwives on the ward really didn't seem to care that I had had a baby, or that I was so comprehensively apart from him. When the bounty lady came in and was nice and interested and wanted to ask about the baby who was apparently nonexistent to everyone else, I would have sold her my soul, let alone a few personal details. It wasn't until much later that I realised exactly what she had been there for and I think I was incapable of making an informed choice at that point.

nillynoon Sat 22-Dec-12 07:33:17

Thankfully I had read the thread re bounty earlier this year, and was able to see her coming. She came round at 8am, and I'd only been on the ward 4 hours after a forceps delivery and third degree tear repair so was not in the mood to be bothered, so was quite abrupt. I did enjoy hearing everyone else's confidential information as she went round the beds!

blondecat Sat 22-Dec-12 07:53:07

One more thing

They are not allowed on private wards.
So hospitals must know they are disruptive.

Enigmosaurus Sat 22-Dec-12 08:00:16

I've posted this before under other names but here goes...

My dd1 died less than an hour after birth in 2005. I was moved to the postnatal ward despite my delivery mw doing her level best to keep me down there but they needed the beds. I had a manual removal of placenta and had a catheter in place. I was in a side room where the mw in charge insisted the door had to stay open so I'd spent the night listening to babies crying when my own had died. 9am rolls round, in bounces the Bounty woman, no knocks or anything and she congratulated me. I had to tell her my baby had died. She didn't apologise, she barely even looked me in the face and backed out of the room. I was alone and totally, completely distraught by the experience. I will never forget it, it was completely heartless. A wonderful bereavement midwife helped me to raise the issue and I got an apology from the hospital but not Bounty.

When my ds1 was born a year later, she went in for the hard sell, including claiming the photos were for security reasons (ie if my baby went missing from the ward they'd have a photo to release to the press... great thing to tell a brand new mother???) but I refused the photos. They were horrendous, ditto with dd2 and ds2. I had dd3 at home so the mw brought the packs round.

I've used the Bounty website (in desperation, for support after dd1's death, in my darkest hour in my defence but I made some good friends there in the end) and they just don't give a shit about anything except clicks. I've been banned countless times for ridiculous reasons (using the word dildo for example. Someone else was banned for saying tits) and the final straw was them allowing a long-term member to create new ID's and troll the buggery out of the site. Over and over. Whilst banning people who protested against it.

They are an awful company. They just want ££££££££ - they sell details quarterly, six-monthly or annually depending on how regularly the companies buying want to target people. Early Learning Centre used to buy quarterly, not sure if they still do as I no longer work for them but if I had known what I know now back then I would have been a flea in the Managing Director's ear - any company with any sense should stay far, far away from them.

Wrigglebum Sat 22-Dec-12 08:16:57

Some truly awful stories here.

I was warned off them by my first midwife! First time round I gave them an address I was moving from shortly. Second time a fake address and (whilst playing on my iPhone) told her I didn't check emails and never used my phone. Said I did not wish to be contacted. When she pressed more I explained I was going to cloth bum, Breastfeed and do blw so all their tat was useless to me. That shut her up.

Dontbeatmeupitschristmas You've spent a lot on photos of your dc? Why? If you are being paid to take photos of other people's dcs, whether you pressure them or not, surely you must be great at it yourself or a professional? Why have other professionals take pictures for you and be charged lots if Bounty are so cheap?

After pfb dd was born, we waited about a month and happened to be in our town centre, walking past Woolies. For £5 we had a large picture taken of dd in dp's hands. Its beautiful that photo. The lady who took it was kind, considerate and asked what we wanted.

Yes, she took lots of pictures and we were invited to come back and have a look and then we had the option of buying others, but as good as they all were, that picture is my favourite of all dd's baby pics. No pressure on us to buy the rest, just smiles and off we went.

Unlike Bounty, who feel they can lie and scam people who are vulnerable, reduce them to tears and who, hand over fist take shite pictures and then, on the odd time they take a half decent picture get the babies names etc wrong.

Lavenderhoney Sat 22-Dec-12 08:29:46

Threw Emma's diary in the bin as blatant advertising and no use whatsoever.

The Mw told me in the hospital the bounty last would be coming round but I was under no obligation to her. Wish they had told her that. She was there outside visiting hours, harassing and totally thick skinned. When I said she couldn't have my details and I didn't want a bag she said she would just get them off the Mw as I HAD to hand then over it was part of the deal.

She wouldn't leave me alone even when I was crying she still said heres the form, it won't take you a minute. I chucked it in the bin and she got it out and held it for me. I pushed her hand away- Told her to go away in hacking sobs - dh appeared as he works very strange hours and they said he could come if he was very quiet outside visiting.

He crept up behind her and was very menacingsmile in telling her to leave me alone. He did moan at the Mw too, but they were uninterested in the extra stress they cause. Funny, when the Mw are banging on about pnd and being as relaxed as possible.

iloverhubarb Sat 22-Dec-12 08:32:49

I'm appalled by this. Surely the issue is why hospital management think it's ok to let non nhs staff into maternity wards, and that these non nhs staff can approach women with no supervision, at any time, regardless of their medical state. Pulling curtains aside! There's a basic security and privacy issue.

How dare hospitals agree to this completely unacceptable practice for payment! How can it be legal? Where's the respect for patient dignity and confidentiality? I get angry about car parking but this is a whole other league!

BoffinMum Sat 22-Dec-12 08:38:37

Why doesn't any of this get reported to the Information Commissioner? It may breach the Data Protection Act, misleading people about what the data is for.

PessimisticMissPiggy Sat 22-Dec-12 08:53:19

I had a Tempest photographer on my ward. Chose her timing well and no hard sell etc.. If Bounty had come my way I'd have told 'em to do one! When I got the first pack in pregnancy my MW was insistent that my notes went in it. Er no, I said, I don't advertise for free.

I plain file for my handhelds.

Refuse all 'freebies' from the off!

GlaikitFizzogTheChristmasElf Sat 22-Dec-12 09:34:50

Tempest aren't much better ime and don't get me started on pixifoto in mothercare. Granted they aren't hounding you on the wards post partum, but they lay it on thick "don't y love your baby enough to buy the £200 photo in an acrylic block we have already made up for you to take today??" "Everyone else buys them" etc etc! Truth is these companies have based their business model on tugging on the heart strings of new parents. Nearly every company y will deal with will sell on your details now.

I'm not trying to excuse bounty in anyway, what they do is unacceptable at best and immoral. If bounty get kicked off the wards, and they should IMHO, they will find another way of targeting us. Pcts need to stand up to them and say no. But what does that mean for the money they give and what it pays for? Maternity services are over stretched now as it is. its possibly become a necessity for thenm to give bounty access.

Perhaps there is a middle ground? They aren't given free reign to stalk the wards, but you are made aware of the service in a room down the hall. In no uncertain terms should you be approached. It is all on your own terms?

ItsIgginningToLookALotLikeXmas Sat 22-Dec-12 09:52:22

Having read similar threads before, with dc2 I declined the photo and was expecting pressure but didn't get any - I didn't decline the pack though (I quite like junk) so that might have provoked a reaction. I consciously spent the equivalent of the bounty photos on a new digital camera with which I've taken a thousand photos, rather than one awful one.

Tragedies Sat 22-Dec-12 10:06:21

Just emailed Bounty to complain about the remarks about Child Benefit forms and the utterly wrong behaviour of the photographers. I included a link to this thread. Will come back with the reply (if there is one). The photographers will in all likelihood not be employees but franchisees so I made sure that I covered that in the complaint. The company may well say that a franchise arrangement means they have no control over the photographers - in that case they clearly are not capable of finding and signing up people with the right temperaments. How one woman can behave in this way to another who is exhausted and vulnerable I really cannot understand.

TheGrinchWhoStoleTweasels Sat 22-Dec-12 10:07:28

I find this just so awful. Again like some others, I was very lucky to have a straightforward birth with DC2 so went straight home and never saw a bounty rep. DC1 was born before the photo thing started. I do remember believing I HAD to give them my details though.

I really think we should harness the collective voice we have here to put a stop to this.

nappyaddict Sat 22-Dec-12 10:12:28

Do the Bounty people only take your details if you have pictures taken or do they take them if they just give you a pack too?

It's clear that Bounty don't really care about their reputation- once they have your details then that's all they need and they have no further contact with you- but the companies that buy your details and that advertise with Bounty might be more concerned. How about letting them know what we think? 'Yes, I do need an alarm system but I'm not buying one from you because you got my details from Bounty' or 'Yes, I do need to buy nursery furniture/nappies/whatever but I'm buying from another company that doesn't advertise with Bounty.'

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 22-Dec-12 10:28:35

Our local NHS hospital has a box on the counter for the forms to be put in and the midwives hand out the bags. I have not known of a photographer from a outside company be on the wards taking photos with out being requested by the parents. The have a sort of office type room with an phone that patients can call. If I'm remembering correctly I'm pretty sure it used to be the patients smoking room/ cupboard years ago when you could smoke in hospital.

But as far as I am aware they do not advertise that they are in essence a data sale company, even if done tactfully with no pressure ect they should be open and honest about that aspect of it so people can make a informed choice.

But I still don't think its ok to rip in to someone because of there job if they are at the bottom. It weakens the very valid complaint makes it lose power and makes the person doing it appear irrational.

We wouldn't accept it towards council admin staff, police officers, hospital staff or cleaners or bin men or anyone else we would even be a bit hmm at people who do it even if the staff member has personally pissed us off. So no you don't have to expect to experience verbal abuse because your employers are con merchants.

louistheseventeenth Sat 22-Dec-12 10:31:51

sockreturning pixie:

"So do you really need to rip into her about watching a newborn in a ward... "Obviously as long as mum was not pressured to buy the photo because of this,what's the big deal?"

Actually I did not 'rip into' anyone.

I think you should re-read my post.

I expressed my shock that it would seem acceptable to anyone that the boundaries of being a sales rep around vulnerable women would be blurred in this way.

In my opinion, I don't think that the photographers should be allowed on the ward at all...but if they are I think it is much better if they at least stay photographers.

Someone walking in saying 'would you like to buy my lovely photos' is a LOT clearer than someone helping out vulnerable women whose family and friends aren't around to help them which makes it easy to misunderstand what they are actually doing on the ward.

To my mind it is this kind of behaviour that makes it extremely difficult to refuse consent and, whether unintentional or not, is emotionally manipulative. Even if not deliberate, THIS IS a subtle way of pressuring someone into buying a photo, so it is big deal.

owlface Sat 22-Dec-12 10:39:42

I'm worried enough about giving birth and now I also have to worry about having my personal details stolen when I don't consent to give them? Thanks Bounty!

I will definitely be signing the petition, I think it is outrageous that so many people have been treated so appallingly.

autumnlights12 Sat 22-Dec-12 10:44:16

Only had Bounty photos taken once, with dd2. I'd paid for a private room. She did knock, took some photos, which were really nice. I bought a few. Liked my bounty pack which had lots of good stuff in. Can't remember getting any unwanted phone calls or junk mail afterwards. Bounty photo of dd2, who is now almost 10, is one of my favourite photos of her. But judging by this thread, mine might be the only positive experience.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 22-Dec-12 10:52:07

So why on earth did you not specify that you felt it was a high pressure sale technique.

Rather than a eye brow raising inappropriate baby sitter issue.

Rindercella Sat 22-Dec-12 10:52:39

I wonder how much the company strategy has changed in recent years. A bit like some charities - I have had so many cold calls from them over the last year or so. GOSH, Save the Children, RSPCA, saying, "but children are dying...don't you want to help them?". This is after I have explained I already have my chosen charities.

Bounty's job spec states its aim: to become the largest club for new parents in the country. It would seem they will now employ all tactics to ensure that happens. Mercenary is how I now consider them to be.

Rindercella Sat 22-Dec-12 10:55:29

Sock, I have a huge issue with women not being allowed to see their partners or own mothers, but a fucking Bounty rep is allowed to be on the ward and 'babysit' a newborn while its mother has a shower.

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Sat 22-Dec-12 10:58:04

I havnt run away (yet smile), tbh if I had witnessed any of the experiences that I have been mentioned on here I would be as upset and angry as you felt, and still do. They are horrendous, I cannot and will not defend my enployers on whether they should be in the wards. However, I was given strict guidleines on how/when to approach a Mum, to never ever mention security photos or you cannot receive CB form without the information being taken. It sadly seems that some employees do not value their job as much as I do.

I will however defend myself. I have always loved photography and babies so this is my dream job, I consider myself a photographer first and foremost and a distributor secondly. As mentioned previously I very rarely even sell in the hospital as I give the mums a secure pin number to look at the photos once they get home. If they decide to buy them that means I have taken some lovely images and they are happy. If they dont, I dont even hear about it. As far as data capture is concerned I always ask if they are happy to be contacted by 3rd parties, if they say no I simply tick a box.

I would just like to clarify "looking after" sorry, probably not the best terminology. After I have seen the Mums, regardless if they have given me details had photos taken or if family members are there. I ask if there is anything I could do for them before I leave. This has involved, filling up jugs of water, getting tea, milk for babies, fresh sheets for cots, towels, borrowing my mobile phone, getting a parking permit for Dad, getting sweets from vending machine for big brother, even putting up christmas lights. So Louis I hope you can see that I find your above post hurtful there is no ulteria motive or financial gain in doing this.

JenFrankincenseAndMyrrh Sat 22-Dec-12 11:09:09

Bounty take no notice of the no 3rd party box. I am very careful to always tick these type of boxes. I have received mail from other companies and when I asked them where they got my details from they said Bounty.

I think the practice of selling details should be made illegal.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 22-Dec-12 11:14:05

I have a huge issue with them being there full stop regardless of what they are doing.

But if you are employed to be there your employer sends you, the hospital welcome you because they are paid to and you are expected to be on the ward. Then your choice is be on the ward or get sacked/quit.

We have no idea if she did pressure the mum after she watched the baby perhaps she didnt.

nappyaddict Sat 22-Dec-12 11:14:21

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas - In order to get the Bounty pack do Mum's have to hand over their name and details?

Don'tbeatmeup, I don't know where the fuck you get the idea that you're looking after women. You are a sales rep; nothing more, and the way your company preys on us is cruel.

And the photos are shit.

louistheseventeenth Sat 22-Dec-12 11:28:23

sock,
" So why on earth did you not specify that you felt it was a high pressure sale technique.

Rather than a eye brow raising inappropriate baby sitter issue. " ??

Well, I didn't specify it was shock as a sales tactic as it didn't occur to me anyone would interpret it in the way that you chose to, that is your issue, not mine.

JambalayaWarmMincePie Sat 22-Dec-12 11:29:05

My baby info card, that went in DDs clear plastic cot, was sponsored by Tempest. Never saw them though. There was just a phone number on it.

mummysmellsofsick Sat 22-Dec-12 11:29:13

Is there a petition? Can someone post me the link? I had no idea about any of this having had a hb with an im. It's utterly disgraceful that any form of commercial advertising or data collection happens in maternity wards

autumnlights12 Sat 22-Dec-12 11:30:18

Jesus Christ, back the fuck off! She's doing a job, which some people appreciate and people are within their rights to say 'No'.
One. Simple. Word.
I bought Bounty photos and know others who bought them and didn't have a nasty, awful, hideous experience.. and were actually disappointed that they'd missed the Bounty photographer when they were in hospital!

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Sat 22-Dec-12 11:31:05

Nappy addict, no they don't a few Mums don't want to but most do as they like the weekly updates by e mail on development. Those who leave at night time are just handed a bag by the midwives.

Commander, actually my photos are lovely. Seriously? After you had your baby wasn't there anything that you wanted done but it was too trivial to ask the nurse for? The nurses and patients are always happy which is all that matters to me.

autumnlights12 Sat 22-Dec-12 11:31:26

high pressure sales techniques? Someone with a camera walking around a ward, asking if you want a photo? Don't make me laugh.

RedToothbrush Sat 22-Dec-12 11:42:28

Its is high pressure given that someone in hospital is unable to walk away from a sales person like they would be in the street.

Any situation which puts someone in a position where they are unable to do that is highly questionable. They are therefore more likely to make decisions that they would not otherwise make purely because of the circumstances which are beyond their control.

Stick the bounty lady somewhere where she can be approached by women off the ward and I wouldn't have a problem.

Not everyone feels able to say no. The British have a reputation for being polite and not assertive about poor service even when they are unhappy; its not a stereotype without foundation.

Rindercella Sat 22-Dec-12 11:43:50

Autumnlights. Have you read the thread and taken in what some of the posters have said? How the Bounty reps have behaved in utterly repellent and inappropriate ways when new mothers have just had an incredible difficult birth, or their babies very poorly, or indeed when they have just lost the baby?

You may think it's okay, but judging from this thread, you are one of a tiny minority who do.

RedToothbrush Sat 22-Dec-12 11:51:27

What would happen if salesmen for Stanna Stairlifts were given access to wards and could give out free samples of (insert product aimed at elderly here) in return for their details. And whilst they were at it offered a service that old people might like (ooo photos of grandkids visiting for example or takeaway delivery service to the hospital).

Would you still say that the patients could just say no. Or would you have ethical questions and concerns?

If the answer is yes then why is Bounty ok?

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sat 22-Dec-12 11:59:27

Or the stannah salespeople were let loose on the spinal injuries ward. Appropriate?

Rindercella Sat 22-Dec-12 12:01:23

Or what about on an oncology ward a sales rep was allowed to give out incontinence aids and pineapple juice samples. And a copy of the DLA form to complete?

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 22-Dec-12 12:03:53

I totally agree that they should only be asked for as I do think it could be high pressure sales to people who could be in no state to make an informed choice as well as the added thing that often people struggle to refuse photos when directly asked due to the emotions involved surrounding our children.

And I completely agree that some of them are utter bastards I think all the negative stories on here should have resulted in sackings and the parents being given the photos free of charge as an apology.

And the company's presence being stopped.

But we don't know that this particular employee does the negative stuff

NotSpartacus Sat 22-Dec-12 12:07:18

Bounty was started by an advertising exec so I guess its progression into the data collection business is a natural extension of that.
I don't have a problem with the distribution of free samples to new mums, but it doesn't have to go hand in hand with the flogging of other goods (framey's post had me particularly open-mouthed here). Surely the hopitals have a duty of care? I had a general anaesthetic last week and they were at pains to tell me I couldn't sign any legal docs for 24 hours. It seems rather odd that after giving birth (when I m much more dazed and confused) the hospital could assist someone in getting me into debt.
I have half a mind to start a rival freebie distribution outfit with less junk paper in the pack and no data collection unless you log on when you get home and opt in...

autumnlights12 Sat 22-Dec-12 12:09:20

Or the stannah salespeople were let loose on the spinal injuries ward. Appropriate?

ohh, let me think... perhaps because having a baby is supposed to be a HAPPY occasion? A good reason to be in hospital? Something you might want photographed? I agree that Bounty photographers should always be 1000% certain that the parents they approach are happy, not behind the privacy of a curtain or a closed door, are not attached to drips and whatnot, are not crying or obviously struggling, are not without their baby (no Mum should ever have to explain to a rep that her baby is in SCBU or has passed away)

JustineMumsnet (MNHQ) Sat 22-Dec-12 12:10:14

RedToothbrush

Rindercella there was a thread on this subject earlier in the year. MNHQ were asked about a campaign on it. They said they would look into it as it was clearly a massive problem that was causing a lot of distress, but clearly its not gone any further.

I guess one of the problems with that is that Bounty itself its a direct competitor to MN with its parenting forums and that maybe caused them to have a conflict of interests.

Would be interesting to know exactly why MNHQ never took the ball and ran with it as a campaign though.

Hi RedToothbrush,
We approached Bounty at the time of the last thread highlighting the strength of feeling against their activities and suggested that they should do a survey on here to find out what kind of interaction is acceptable to new mums in hospital, as well as to evaluate and improve their code of practice for photographers and feedback/complaints procedure.

They seemed interested for a bit but then came back and said they didn't think Mumsnet could provide a sufficiently "robust and relevant sample base".

They did say "please be assured that we have listened to Mumsnet members and made changes to our Code of Conduct in respect of the issues raise regarding photography and child benefit forms, and in addition we are:


• Making sure mums-to-be who’ve already joined Bounty before they have their baby (7 out of 10 join Bounty before they meet the Bounty lady in hospital) know about our Code of Conduct to so they are clear about what they expect when they meet the Bounty lady


• Contacting all mums after they return from hospital to invite them tell us about their experience - any negative feedback will be addressed


• Considering a consultation with hospitals about whether we can introduce a sign to hang on beds/curtains to indicate whether mums would like to be visited by the Bounty lady."

It does seem, however, from this thread that they have some way to go so we'd be happy to give some further thought about how we might encourage them to address some of the problems. Do let us know if you have some ideas on how to proceed.

autumn have you even read the rest of the thread? If it was simply a case of "would you like a picture?" "no" "fine thank you bye", no one would have an issue.

But, sadly from the thread, its not always like that. I honestly thought I was in a minority with my experience but clearly not.

Whilst there are probably some nice people who work for the company, do what they are asked and are courteous, there are, of course, going to be those who aren't. Every career is like that, there are good or bad wherever you go, that's just human nature. They are self managed when they are on these wards.

I think the NHS needs to monitor them a lot more to make sure shocking things aren't done or said. Women who have had a bad birth experience resulting in complications, prematurity or death should be strictly off limits. (That also goes hand in hand with my feeling it should be a given that women in these situations should not be forced onto the maternity ward with the babies). They also need to be transparent in what they gain from it.

Also, Bounty, as a massive company, needs to exercise better management of the people it employs. There should be a strict aspect to walking off with babies (that just leaves mums open to baby snatching frankly). The fact that the packs have gone from a freebie filled with great sized products to a plastic bag with a tea bag and a load of sales bumpf and a pushy sales pitch for photos shows that they have perhaps forgotten their original ideology and now its just about the money from selling photos to selling details. A case of "too big for their boots"?

Giving birth, whether it goes how it should or not, is a stressful time, where the last thing you need is snarky comments and pressure sales. The same with MWs who can be rude and ignorant and thus should be retrained, these photographers, the one's I class as the "Bounty Bitches" should just be sacked immediately for lying or causing upset.

autumnlights12 Sat 22-Dec-12 12:17:30

Yes Fellowship, I've read the thread.

autumnlights12 Sat 22-Dec-12 12:17:38

All of it.

DontmindifIdo Sat 22-Dec-12 12:17:42

autumnlights12 - I would say if you're still in hosptial and not just realised after a couple of hours, that's a sign you've not had a straight forward birth - so while it's a happy time that you have a new baby, it's also a pretty good sign that either you or your DC are ill and recovering from a non-straight forward birth. these days it's not normal to keep the "easy birth" woman in - any friends who've had a birth like that have been home within a few hours.

anyone in long enough for the bounty woman to bother them come round has obviously had a birth that requires some recovery.

You can both be happy you have had a child and also very very ill yourself.

In that case autumn and in response to your idea that "birth is a happy experience and people may want photos". Yep, they do.

But the mass majority of us
a) own a camera
b) own a camera phone
c) are shattered
d) don't want someone to annoy the shit out of us with lies.

Double that if they are in my position.

RedToothbrush Sat 22-Dec-12 12:19:44

Thanks JustineMumsnet its good to know where this is up to and that you have been on the ball with it.

That does give food for thought and a bit of direction.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sat 22-Dec-12 12:21:49

Autumn: it's wrong. You know it is.

Rindercella Sat 22-Dec-12 12:22:16

Justine, thank you. That is all very interesting.

I personally think that a consultation should be started with the NHS to decide whether there is a need for Bounty reps to be on maternity wards at all.

Why should anyone but a HCP have access to you?

DontmindifIdo Sat 22-Dec-12 12:23:20

Also, why is it ok for bounty staff to wander around outside of visiting hours without supervision? Even if they are continued to be allowed on wards, I'd want one to be supervised at all times by a member of hospital staff.

They aren't hosptial staff, they aren't family of the baby, why are they allowed to be alone with other people's children at all?

If the NHS was forced to pay someone to walk round with any non-staff member accessing paitents outside of visiting hours you might find they aren't quite so keen on them.

And i also think even telling a non-family member and non-NHS staff member that someone's lost a baby or their DC is sick is not a good thing, that in itself would be considered a breech of the woman's/child's data protection. Why is it ok for them to provide this information to a company rep at all?

louistheseventeenth Sat 22-Dec-12 12:26:43

Thanks JustineMumsnet.

I think one of the suggestions is very good and would solve a lot of problems-

"Introduce a sign to hang on beds/curtains to indicate whether mums would like to be visited by the Bounty lady."

If this was an opt in system i.e. mum's had to display a sign to indicate they were interested in order to be approached and no sign meant they couldnt be approached, I think that would be even better.

It is no surprise to me that Bounty have only said they are considering having a consultation about doing this, as that doesnt really mean doing anything, but if this could be made into a more concrete action I think it would be a big step forward.

autumnlights12 Sat 22-Dec-12 12:27:01

ok, I'm clearly in the minority.
For the record, I did have a difficult birth- pre eclampsia, ventouse.. and was still happy to take the Bounty bag and have a photo. Clearly I'm odd for doing that.

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Sat 22-Dec-12 12:27:44

It was specifically mentioned earlier in the year to employees that it had been brought to their attention the inappropriate practices of, saying photos are for security purposes and having the cb form was dependant on taking the details. They made it clear in no uncertain terms this was a stackable offence (I had no knowledge of either of these things being done in my region) I believe that was a direct result of hearing the feedback from here.

I sincerely hope the people who did hear either of these that it was over 6 months ago and they are recounting from a while back?

louistheseventeenth Sat 22-Dec-12 12:28:36

Should also have added, the best case senario for me would be to see them go altogether, rather than making compromises like this, but I accept that it might be easier to at least get mums some protection within the current arrangements rather than get shut of them.

Rindercella Sat 22-Dec-12 12:32:53

Dontbeatmeup, did you mention that last night? That there had been specific guidelines given as to best practices and that bad practices would be a sackable offence? If not, it seems odd that you didn't. I seem to remember reading that you were shocked such things went on and that you'd never heard of these things happening? I might be wrong though.

FivesGoldNorks Sat 22-Dec-12 12:35:41

Just read a few posts sorry, I have always thoguth of bounty as a bit of a joke, easy way to get free nappy cream but I am horrified and would back any petitiion to ban them

Rindercella Sat 22-Dec-12 12:36:22

I have a problem with Bounty reps being on the wards at all. In a room just outside the locked ward, fine. But absolutely not in a supposedly secure maternity ward. If there's just an opt in/out sign at the end of the bed, then the reps are still free to roam the wards, overhearing all sorts of personal and confidential information.

I don't like it one bit and think the practice needs to end.

DontmindifIdo Sat 22-Dec-12 12:37:07

Dontbeatmeup - surely that requires woman understanding what had happened was wrong and knowing who to report it too, and having the energy with a newborn to go through a reporting proceedure. Most will just put it behind them, that's how people like that get away with it.

The principle of someone who isn't NHS staff having access to the wards for commerical gain outside of visiting hours is plain wrong, even if the staff all were 100% well behaved and helpful.

FivesGoldNorks Sat 22-Dec-12 12:37:11

and as far as them taking women's addresses off their notes - the DPA required personal info to be appropriately secured, which this is not. It is a failing on the part of the hospital trust and if it's happened to you complain loudly

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Sat 22-Dec-12 12:37:38

Was shocked at the conversations that were had that were so tactless and upsetting for the mums. There was a discussion on mumsnet earlier in the year about these two practices so had heard this before, and wasn't surprised when then follow up e mail was sent to employees. I sincerely hope that all of the employees have stopped this.

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Sat 22-Dec-12 12:44:20

It's not going to stop because hospitals are not going to give up the money they get.

That's the bottom line. The hospitals have made the decision to give access to us at this time because they get cash. It's not bounty we should be focusing on.

It's the NHS.

1978andallthat Sat 22-Dec-12 12:44:47

Not read whole thread but you should write two formal complaints. One to bounty, pref with name of that woman, but one to the hospital asking them to ban them from the ward.

Also congrats on new baby.

JugglingMeYorkiesAndNutRoast Sat 22-Dec-12 12:47:45

I think Bounty is rubbish - women should be given a high quality birth & baby manual during pregnancy with considered links to valuable sources of support, such as ante-natal classes, their local NCT, nurseries and child-minders, toddler groups etc. Not just a couple of free samples from a commercial company which has no real concern for their well-being. And do they still provide "Emma's diary" - how rubbish is that ? As an early years practitioner as well as a mother I know that parents are their children's first and most important educators. The information given to new mothers should reflect this and not just be the low level rubbish about how to get 50p off your next packet of nappies angry grin

I don't really remember my brief encounter with the photographer (I vaguely remember some photo was probably offered which we declined) though some people's stories are shocking. But I know what I really needed is some compassionate empathic care from nurses or others. Whilst I was on the post-natal ward no-one asked me how I was feeling or how the birth went, or how I was coping/ getting on with my newborn (DC1) There was some support and check-ups for physical things such as whether feeding was established etc. And that was it !

So, I think the sort of person they do need on PN wards is someone trained in counseling who can listen to women's experiences. Whether this is a professional (eg nurse) or well-trained, vetted, and supervised volunteer I think this would make a huge difference to women's experiences of early motherhood and to their well-being.

RedToothbrush Sat 22-Dec-12 12:50:02

So by Dontbeatmeupitsxmas own admission on this thread midwifes are telling outsiders confidential information about patients so she knows which ones she can approach and which she can't.

Hmm.

And the hospitals don't seem to be aware of how merely allowing salespeople access to people on wards means they are automatically breaching trading standards by putting vulnerable patients in a situation where they are more likely to make decisions that they wouldn't normally make under any other circumstances.

Bounty make money. And as long as they are enabled to do so by the NHS they will always argue that they wouldn't be allowed to do it, if it breeched the rules.

Except it does.

The NHS are protecting Bounty and the NHS are acting for their own financial benefit and not in the best interests of patients.

Campaign needs to be aimed at hospitals and politicians not Bounty.

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly - you are so right. The NHS is allowing this to happen in lots of hospitals, to vunerable women.

I do not think anyone other than medical\hospital staff and close family should be allowed on any ward in any hospital.

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Sat 22-Dec-12 12:56:25

I agree.

What we need is a campaign to get the NHS to change its rule on this. To see that it is confidentiality issue, a duty of care issue and a common decency issue.

And to put that before the cash that bounty gives it.

We can get rid of bounty without focusing on them directly at all.

belgina Sat 22-Dec-12 12:57:44

I'm a bit shock at some of these stories. I'm a mw & work on a pn ward. The Bounty ladies always check with staff first if any woman has a baby in nnu first to make sure they don't go in & ask if any other rooms need avoiding for any other reason. They don't go and wake up women & if I were to get any reports that they do, I'd get on their case! And there is no way they have access to personal details of the women on the ward. Contact details etc... are given out by the women themselves,
I do agree they shouldn't be there, but if they are, sounds like some should get some training as to how to act on a pn ward!

JugglingMeYorkiesAndNutRoast Sat 22-Dec-12 13:02:25

And what a joke to say that during pregnancy 7 out of 10 women "join" Bounty.

You mean people who sign and send off something in Emma's diary for lots of free samples when that's the only pregnancy, birth, and baby info they've been given during ante-natal visits ? Ha !

So MW's are allowed to give out confidential information (baby is in SCBU o their baby has died etc ), to these Bounty ladies?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 22-Dec-12 13:05:20

I was pre warned by MN. The Bounty lady came outside of visiting hours and told me I needed a bounty pack to get CB form. I took pack, but didn't give her any of my details which she accepted.

Why is acceptable for Bounty to pay and be on the ward? Why not Venture photography, or maybe Mother care could come round selling things. It is wrong that the NHS is willing to accept money for access to patients.

It is also wrong for Bounty to take advantage of vulnerable people.

How can we stop this?

NotSpartacus Sat 22-Dec-12 13:06:00

Belgina - isn't it a breach of confidentiality to tell the Bounty rep that a woman's baby is ill? I'd think so.
If the NHS is going to continue to let Bounty reps onto wards, their access to patints should be on a strictly opt in basis.

JugglingMeYorkiesAndNutRoast Sat 22-Dec-12 13:11:14

Just get rid Spartacus - that is the clear way forward. Amazing they've got away with this bollocks for so long really. And anyway so many family members have a digital camera or mobile to take a nice picture with these days. If it's for security a nurse could easily do the same and it would provide an easy opportunity for a nice wee bit of friendly encouragement from staff which is often sorely needed.

bealos Sat 22-Dec-12 13:11:24

Doesn't it come down to the fact that sales people should simply not be allowed on NHS wards? (Does this happen in any other circumstance? Are brands allowed to tout their wares at patients in any other department?).

Surely if MNHQ are not able to start a campaign, then us, the masses, streaming support down this thread can set up our own petition and letter writing campaign?

bealos Sat 22-Dec-12 13:14:10

Agree with RedToothbrush that campaign should be targeted at NHS Commissioning Bodies and Government, as they will be the ones that decide policy and whether Bounty can be allowed in hospitals.

Bounty is not to listen to us and end their lucrative business when they have a contract to be there.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 22-Dec-12 13:19:25

Hmm, given that Bounty gave MNHQ the brush off I really think they should officially support this campaign. If it is a conflict of interest then make it broader, ie ban the NHS from selling direct access to patients (I think some one up thread mentioned a non-bounty photographer). MNHQ has some serious clout and if they got behind this things could really happen.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 22-Dec-12 13:20:40

In fact, imagine if MNHQ joined forces with NMHQ! That really would get things going...

Bealos - we certainly can. But I have no idea how to go about something like that.

GlaikitFizzogTheChristmasElf Sat 22-Dec-12 13:24:59

I don't think there is any breach of confidentiality in saying, lady in bed 2 shouldn't be approached. Lets not demonise these people, they are only doing their jobs. MW and bounty lady. I understand the feelings running high here, but lets get some perspective. They aren't dolling out heroin or stealing our babies.

As justine has said, bounty took note of things said here before, and dontbeatmeup has said it is now a stackable offence to say the photos are for security or you can only get the cb form from them.

Lets hope they have begun to turn a corner and OPs experience is one rogue bounty lady(there may be others, I don't know) because bounty themselves aren't going to stop off their own backs, only when the NHS gets the funding they need to run services without the input of private companies will this sort of this stop.

But Glaikit - there are clearly many other 'rogue' Bounty ladies, as many posters on this thread have shown. Clearly, although they may told not to approach certain women for whatever reason, some obviously don't listen.

CheerfulYank Sat 22-Dec-12 13:42:45

They sound awful. shock

We do have this sort of thing in the US but not this same company...I don't think they get any details and we don't have child benefit forms anyway so they couldn't lie about it.

Someone tried to take a picture of DS when he was born but he was screaming blue murder both times she stopped by, so she never got one. smile I'm due to give birth in May in a teeny tiny little hospital (will probably be the only one in labor there) and I doubt I'll have to worry about it.

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 13:53:55

"Doesn't it come down to the fact that sales people should simply not be allowed on NHS wards? (Does this happen in any other circumstance? Are brands allowed to tout their wares at patients in any other department?)."

a guy from the WHSmith shop in my local hospital goes around the wards with a trolly selling newspapers, snacks, slippers, toiletries etc. But there is not doubt about who he is, he never goes behind closed curtains and he just shouts from the door of the bay "newspapers, snacks, slippers" then anyone who wants some calls him over. He doesn't approach each patient in turn. He comes around less now as each ward now has a volunteer who can be asked to go down to the shop for patients instead, the volunteer doesn't work for the shop.

I didn't expect such a huge response when I started this, sorry I'm not taking an active part in the discussion as you can imagine I'm pretty busy atm.

I do agree with something raised though, my dp was unable to visit me yesterday, when bounty lady got me, I'd asked if my Mum could take his place as such, hold dd while I showered and help me organise my things for going home, I was told no, yet this women crept out of her cupboard and approach me and harass me when I let my guard down and left my curtain open to eat lunch

GlaikitFizzogTheChristmasElf Sat 22-Dec-12 14:20:29

But visualise we don't know when these anecdotes are from. Only 6 months ago were bounty employees told that the security/cb lies were a stackable offence. Prior to that bounty obviously thought they were ok.

I'm trying to play devils advocate. A bounty rep has posted here as has a MW both saying the same thing. Not all bounty reps will act in the manner described by some one here. My rep was kind and non pushy, but then I bought the photos and gave her my details. She popped back a few times because I was feeding or ds was sleeping, and at no point was she pushy. She was crap at spelling and reading a calendar, but she was nice.

GlaikitFizzogTheChristmasElf Sat 22-Dec-12 14:22:24

cheerful I didn't know y were expecting! Congrats! Can't wait for little Shitta to make an appearance! <end of hijack>

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 14:26:20

GlaikitFizzogTheChristmasElf the Bounty rep on here is refusing to admit she is a sales person so there is still a current culture of unashamed deception

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Sat 22-Dec-12 14:28:02

All hospitals have very strict visiting rules, which is understandable as in the morning the peadiatric doctors have to do their rounds and blood tests, orthopods, breast feeding helpers there are lots of us running around. Then partners are allowed in later, stateofconfusion the same happened to me and they wouldn't let my Mum in either. But we have a job to do and that means being there every morning to stock delivery and scbu with nappies and wipes and try to see every mum before she goes home.

MarcelineTheVampireQueen Sat 22-Dec-12 14:31:56

While I am sure that the person who works for Bounty has not used these selling techniqes, these people shold NOT be on the wards at all. I think it is fair to say that giving birth and the time after, no matter if its your first or 15th is a vulnerable, emotional time. The only people on the ward should be health proffessionals and family. The fact that security kept my family, including DP wait at the front door yet someone who I do not know has free unrestricted access is ridiculous.

If god forbid the worst happened and my baby was not with me due to complications or passing on, I would rather that the midwife is not telling strangers about it. That is MY business and no one elses.

They also should not be watching peoples kids for them on the ward.

BlueAndRedMakePurple Sat 22-Dec-12 14:33:40

4 babies and never net the bounty lady grin lucky me.

However if I'd got her at my last birth (different hospital to the 1st three) I would have gone divvy. My dh wasn't even allowed on the ward to help me carry my stuff out, he had to wait at the doors angry

That is true Glaikit - we don't know how old these stories are. But I imagine some of them are fairly recently. Any one out there with a pushy Bounty lady story from the last 6 months?

Selks Sat 22-Dec-12 14:34:52

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Selks Sat 22-Dec-12 14:35:25

(That was to Dontbeatmeup)

MarcelineTheVampireQueen Sat 22-Dec-12 14:36:09

But you dont work for the hospital Dontbeatmeupitsxmas, you are not a helper. You are a sales person. Instead of going door to door, you go bed to bed. Stocking up on nappies? For who? SCBU have their own supplies. Bounty doesnt supply every hospital with endless supplies of nappies and cream?

Bounty reps aren't really in the same league as paediatricians, orthos, MWs, nurses or BF supporters though, are they? All those people are helping mothers; Bounty reps are just trying to make money out of them.

I'm sure you're a very nice person, dontbeatmeup, but you are not doing a selfless, important job. The hospital would tick along just fine without a Bounty rep on the ward.

Selks Sat 22-Dec-12 14:36:27

And how you can say "lots of us" as if you regard yourself as one of the hospital staff beggars belief.

AliceWChild Sat 22-Dec-12 14:37:45

Totally agree the bounty crap is appalling. My baby is couple of months old.I was in a private room whilst he was in SCIBU. They came in to pressurise me to take their shitty pack twice. Thankfully I'd been warned by MN so told them no and didn't engage. Got a shirty response back. And I'm pretty sure they used the CB form line. Alas I can't remember for sure as my mind was on other things. Funny that, almost like I was in a vulnerable position where I shouldn't have been hassled by uninvited salespeople hmm I do recall they marched in without the usual knock and permission I was used to, from all nhs staff ranging from people getting my menu choices to consultants. They were the only ones who just clattered on in. (baby is fine now) Totally support any campaign

Rindercella Sat 22-Dec-12 14:38:21

Why do you need to see every mum before she goes home dontbeatmeup? Of what benefit is it to her?

Also, please can you let us know how you get paid, as I asked last night? Not how much, obviously. But are you salaried with no incentives, are you commission only, or is it a mixture of the two?

MarcelineTheVampireQueen Sat 22-Dec-12 14:38:33

VisualiseAHorse Sat 22-Dec-12 14:33:44

That is true Glaikit - we don't know how old these stories are. But I imagine some of them are fairly recently. Any one out there with a pushy Bounty lady story from the last 6 months?

The OP has a story from yesterday! Cant get more recent than that!!!

EmpressOfTheNorthPole Sat 22-Dec-12 14:38:56

Pushy story from the last 6 months? State's barely out of hospital!

CheerfulYank Sat 22-Dec-12 14:39:38

grin Glaikit ...stubborn DH is again refusing to let Shitta remain on the shortlist. Hmmph!

Selks Sat 22-Dec-12 14:40:10

Aaargh it's not often I get angry on MN but this thread with the horror stories and Don'tbeatmeup's glib posts are winding me up. I'm outta here.

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Sat 22-Dec-12 14:40:16

We supply scbu, birth centre and delivery with nappies, wipes, cream and baby wash. Lots of it, which is the distribution part mentioned earlier.

cabbagewhite Sat 22-Dec-12 14:40:41

OK, so I haven't read all of this thread, I read the first few pages getting crosser and crosser. My last DC was born 7 years ago and I was never subjected to a Bounty rep, was just given bounty packs for each of them by the midwives. On my last pregnancy the photographer from the local paper did a visit and the midwives went to each 4 bed ward and told us if we wanted a photo to take our baby to the dining room and they were in the paper with any details you wanted to give. He certainly didn't wander about.

I think the best way to tackle this is to complain formally to the hospital involved. If the reps are taking details from the boards on the end of the beds, then the hospital are in clear breach of the Data Protection Act. It covers both electronic and written information. I would also say that each hospital should also be issuing each woman with a form to authorise or not the visitation by the rep to that person, as the hospital is receiving money for that right. There is a clear breach of the duty of care to the patient here, allowing them to be approached by salespeople when they cannot get away and are extremely vulnerable. The previous post about Trading Standards is quite correct, but I think is harder to get results from. TS to Bounty: we've had a complaint about your rep doing XYZ Bounty to TS: it must be a one-off we will address it by re-training. Nothing achieved.

I recommend the Information Commissioner’s Office here http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints.aspx dealt with a complaint I had about a debt collection agency that kept ringing up about someone who had never lived here and wouldn't stop. I complained as they weren't using the information about my phone number correctly, phone calls stopped almost immediately - and I'd suffered literally hundreds of calls for nearly a year prior to that.

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 14:41:49

and since when do newborns need wipes or wash?, it's cotton wool and water - their skin is v sensitive! stop makng out like you're as important as the phleb etc angry

AliceWChild Sat 22-Dec-12 14:42:02

You are fucking kidding me that bounty salespeople are allowed in SCIBU angry People I wanted to come into SCIBU to help me and my sick baby weren't allowed in due to infection control. But they're letting salespeople in?! angry

cabbagewhite Sat 22-Dec-12 14:42:14
Lovecat Sat 22-Dec-12 14:42:18

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Rindercella Sat 22-Dec-12 14:42:45

Marceline! Thank you - was just about to post the exact thing myself. The whole reason for this thread is because this happened to State just yesterday! And her Bounty rep pulled the 'can't get CB' line on her.

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 14:43:15

the reason wipes and baby wash are distributed to new babies is to build brand familiarity and make mums think they need it, they don't! they need cotton wool!

Gosh yes, selks, the description of us does show v blurred boundaries.

Hec is right, there is finance involved, when I can get on my laptop I will find links. Or folk can google bounty freedom of information you can see for yourself the £££ involved.

Back later

MarcelineTheVampireQueen Sat 22-Dec-12 14:43:46

This is from an ad for a Bounty rep...

*Are you looking for part time work? Do you have spare time to fill? Are you a parent of older children? Are you semi retired or retired? Are you looking for a part time income?

If so, this could be the part time role for you. It may suit candidates who have spare time to fill. This may include parents with older children and/or those who are retired/semi retired and looking for part time income.

You will be required to visit The Salisbury District Hospital (Salisbury, Wiltshire) maternity wards to distribute our Bounty packs of information & product samples, and offer our photographic service.*

No contract there to provide nappies etc wholesale, just samples to people on the ward.

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 14:45:45

Alice not just a sales person, a sales person that traipses around the main wards going bed to bed, and a sales person who is advised to store their stock in a garage or outhouse (see recruitment link again!) - nice! just who you want in SCBU! especially when extended family are staying away so as not to bring germs in!

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 14:47:46
Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Sat 22-Dec-12 14:47:57

.Goodness me, by "us" not that I am a nurse for crying out loud but people the other side of the door also cleaners, receptionists and the bloody tv people too.

AliceWChild Sat 22-Dec-12 14:49:06

I smell quite a rat. We supplied our own nappies after the first few. Washing was done with super sterile hospital looking equipment. Included cotton wool and water type stuff, but it was no run of the mill stuff. Was proper hospital style stuff. And there was certainly no cream going on.

AliceWChild Sat 22-Dec-12 14:51:33

Jingle, exactly. angry

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 14:52:14

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Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Sat 22-Dec-12 14:52:47

Maybe it varies from hospital but nursery nurses in our hospital keep it all stocked in postnatal in case anyone runs out and has to stay in longer, or didn't have her bag packed in time.

Rindercella Sat 22-Dec-12 14:53:50

Dontbeatmeup, all of those people you mention - cleaners, receptionists, bloke to fix the tv - are employed by the hospital to provide a service to the patients. Bounty on the other hand pays the hospital for you to be there. Not quite the same thing at all angry

3rd time of asking. How do you get paid? Do you have sales incentives?

AliceWChild Sat 22-Dec-12 14:54:36

As an example, cotton wool tipped wipey things were in a sterile bag. Water was poured from special container into sterile bag. Anything left in sterile bag after use was thrown away. Bounty sales reps supply these from their garages now do they? hmm

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 14:55:34

(telly person at ours is an independant company, not employed by hospital, but the do not go bed to bed selling, they get called if one is broken and the patient requests they come and fix it, plus they NEVER come in the morning when doctors are doing their rounds and patients are having personal care like bed baths etc!)

Rindercella Sat 22-Dec-12 14:56:35

Ingles, yes sorry I realised my mistake when I posted about tv bloke. But it is NOT the same thing at all dontbeatmeup.

AliceWChild Sat 22-Dec-12 14:57:16

Don'tbeat if that was to me, I can believe that the delivery wards or whatnot have bounty stuff to give out in case parents forget. You also said you suppled SCBU. Very different.

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Sat 22-Dec-12 15:07:56

Yes scbu have the majority of the nappies and wipes, I am not avoiding the money question there are lots of elements that make it up, the distributing of stock, delivering bags taking photos and of course if anyone buys them. I have just tried to give another perspective, It is possible to do this job in a non pushy sales way, and yes I agree would be great if Mums could just come to me if they want a pack or photo, but that's not my call.

ChippingInLovesChristmasLights Sat 22-Dec-12 15:08:31

QUOTE All hospitals have very strict visiting rules, which is understandable as in the morning the peadiatric doctors have to do their rounds and blood tests, orthopods, breast feeding helpers there are lots of us running around. Then partners are allowed in later, stateofconfusion the same happened to me and they wouldn't let my Mum in either. But we have a job to do and that means being there every morning to stock delivery and scbu with nappies and wipes and try to see every mum before she goes home.

Jesus wept - do you honestly see yourself as part of the medical team???

Fucking hell. I thought you sounded like nice person working for a shit company to start off with - but holy crap, you are deluded if you think you are part of ANY us or we in a hospital setting.

AliceWChild Sat 22-Dec-12 15:09:04

Jingle, in that ad they describe their own packs as infamous grin

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 15:09:44

hiding now as getting so angry, receptionists and cleaners are very important, essential, and part of the team - how dare you lump them in with you!

BluelightsAndSirens Sat 22-Dec-12 15:10:57

Marking my place to sign oh dears petition.

Congratulations soc.

Very interesting thread and defiantly something new mums and the alike should be made aware of, horrible to be able to use the ctc form to bleed details from new mothers.

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas Sat 22-Dec-12 15:18:37

Chipping.. We..bounty employees. I cannot contribute anymore as you want me to be an evil bitch troll sales maniac by the sounds of it....so that you can shout at me. I am saying I love my job and am quite nice to the mums and....guess what no one likes that either?

TheCrackFox Sat 22-Dec-12 15:19:51

I've worked in sales and a sure fire way to get someone to buy any ole crap is to pretend to be their best mate. Holding their baby whilst they have a shower would pretty much guarantee a sale (especially a shell shocked, hormonal new mother).

You are being disingenuous by saying being nice, friendly and helpful isn't an aggressive sales technique.

Selks Sat 22-Dec-12 15:25:37

NO I don't like that either Dontbeatmeup.....tough. You have no place on a medical ward. I don't care if you are 'quite nice'. Take your quite niceness and apply it to a job that has some ethics. angry

Wigeon Sat 22-Dec-12 15:26:06

I am properly shocked by some of the stories here. Please please complain to both your local hospital and to Bounty. Even if it's a while after the fact. I thought charity chuggers were (sometimes) bad, but this is far far worse.

I managed to avoid the Bounty rep twice somehow - I think because I was only in hospital for 6 hours in total with DD1 and 4 hours in total with DD2!

I will wholeheartedly back any campaign that gets these salespeople removed from the wards. It is clear from the trading standards stuff people have posted that Bounty are breaking the law. It's appalling that the NHS is so short of cash they are prepared to compromise patients' wellbeing and legal rights for the sake of a few extra quid.

Congratulations, OP thanks

TapirAroundTheChristmasTree Sat 22-Dec-12 15:35:04

There is NO place for a salesperson on a hospital ward whatsoever.

I had an awful time with a bounty rep after the stillbirth of my dd1.

A petition and action to stop this, and any other vultures company can't come soon enough IMO.

bealos Sat 22-Dec-12 15:37:06

Has someone set up a petition? (scrolling through threads and can't see one)

bealos Yes, someone has but it takes a while to be processed on the No 10 site. There will be a link soon.

TapirAroundTheChristmasTree Sat 22-Dec-12 15:38:28

Bealos one of the PP ^^ has set one up on the Downing St website, but it can take up to seven days to become active.

AliceWChild Sat 22-Dec-12 15:38:31

It takes 7 days to go live but there will be one

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 22-Dec-12 15:40:07

You will be required to visit The Salisbury District Hospital (Salisbury, Wiltshire) maternity wards to distribute our Bounty packs of information & product samples, and offer our photographic service.

This particular hospital currently has a room outside of the maternity wards but in the same corridor. People are expected to request there photographic services as opposed to be asked by the reps if they want them, and the midwives are brilliant, they do chase them out if they hassle new mums.

MrsReiver Sat 22-Dec-12 15:42:23

Just going to post this again in case it gets lost in the 407 other posts grin

You can check if there is a Bounty Rep in your hospital here

NotSpartacus Sat 22-Dec-12 15:57:06

To be fair to Dontbeatmeup, at least she has come on here to discuss the issue, and clearly she tries to be pleasant in her job.
The higher ups at Bounty who no doubt use google alerts to spot these sorts of internet discussions are nowhere to be seen. Why is that I wonder? Perhaps because we are not sufficiently "robust and relevant" (!!) for them to engage and explain why they believe their organisation has a place on hospital wards selling to vulnerable people and taking their data for sale to third parties (possibly without their informed consent?).

Not robust enough my arse, it's because what we think is not important- as long as they get the details to sell on then job done.

EmpressOfTheNorthPole Sat 22-Dec-12 16:01:05

Why bother with feedback from MN when you can get it from your own forums? Who will be robust and relevant and a completely random cross-section of mums. Yes.

RedToothbrush Sat 22-Dec-12 16:10:57

Ok. I might have another one to throw in the mix here.

European Convention of Human Rights.
Article 8 – Right to respect for private and family life

1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.

2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

Note: The notion of private life in the Article 8 is also interpreted as including some duty of environmental protection. (eg would include someone in hospital or prison if I am correct).

Definition of privacy according to wiki:
Privacy is the ability of an individual or group to seclude themselves or information about themselves and thereby reveal themselves selectively. The boundaries and content of what is considered private differ among cultures and individuals, but share basic common themes. Privacy is sometimes related to anonymity, the wish to remain unnoticed or unidentified in the public realm. When something is private to a person, it usually means there is something within them that is considered inherently special or personally sensitive. The degree to which private information is exposed therefore depends on how the public will receive this information, which differs between places and over time. Privacy partially intersects security, including for instance the concepts of appropriate use, as well as protection of information. Privacy may also take the form of bodily integrity.

The right not to be subjected to unsanctioned invasion of privacy by the government, corporations or individuals is part of many countries' privacy laws, and in some cases, constitutions. Almost all countries have laws which in some way limit privacy; an example of this would be law concerning taxation, which normally require the sharing of information about personal income or earnings. In some countries individual privacy may conflict with freedom of speech laws and some laws may require public disclosure of information which would be considered private in other countries and cultures. Privacy may be voluntarily sacrificed, normally in exchange for perceived benefits and very often with specific dangers and losses, although this is a very strategic view of human relationships. Academics who are economists, evolutionary theorists, and research psychologists describe revealing privacy as a 'voluntary sacrifice', for instance by willing participants in sweepstakes or competitions. In the business world, a person may volunteer personal details (often for advertising purposes) in order to gamble on winning a prize. Personal information which is voluntarily shared but subsequently stolen or misused can lead to identity theft.

Privacy, as the term is generally understood in the West, is not a universal concept and remained virtually unknown in some cultures until recent times. Most cultures, however, recognize the ability of individuals to withhold certain parts of their personal information from wider society - a figleaf over the genitals being an ancient example.

I'm NOT a lawyer, but I'd be really interested to know if there is the possibility that theres a conflict here, and whether the hospitals concerned have a duty of care to patients to protect their privacy from corporations (eg bed to bed sellers) in a vulnerable position like this.

So there's definitely Trading Standard issues here. There's definitely data protection issues here. And there is a possibility that this could be thrown in there too.

Anyone know anyone with any decent knowledge of the EUCHR?!

HyvaPaiva Sat 22-Dec-12 16:12:43

I don't have children but this issue has angered me for ages. It is exceptionally hard to gain access to the NHS as an organization in order to carry out genuine academic scientific research. Their ethics procedure is exceptionally - and rightly - tough. I do not mean accessing maternity wards, I mean LESS sensitive areas, thus maternity should be even harder to access. I'm very glad that it is so hard to access the NHS because it should be secure and confidential. That's why I'm horrified by this allowance made for Bounty. Any research I have done in relation to the NHS has been crucially led by INFORMED CONSENT. Do you know - don'tbeatmeup - how crucial ethics and informed consent are?

Strangers stalking the wards. Random sales people being 'perceived' (according to the bounty sales person on here) as hospital staff, as trustworthy. Sales people making lie-filled claims about security/child benefit to scare patients into sales. Misleading, panicking, and caring not one bit about informed consent. Taking information off hospital notes, bothering bereaved parents. Receiving confidential information from midwives. I am SICKENED by this. Bounty employees should be thoroughly ASHAMED of themselves and those petitioning for their removal from wards are absolutely correct.

ChippingInLovesChristmasLights Sat 22-Dec-12 16:13:56

Dontbeatmeup I don't want you to be anything. You are what you are. Which is, most emphatically, NOT an essential part of a hospital team.

Whether you like it or not, you are at best a sales person for bounty, at worst - a detail gathering tool which is part of their machine that takes advantage of new mums and has no respect for bereaved Mums...

Maybe you shouldn't have namechanged.

D'oh. Obviously OP's post is recent. I'm gonna blame Christmas stress on missing something so obvious!

naturalbaby Sat 22-Dec-12 16:33:28

Why do they 'have' to be there, why do they 'have' to give mothers the packs?
I had all my dc's at home so never met any Bounty reps, I still got my CB forms and bounty packs.

I can't believe the stories I've read on this thread.

PurpleTinsel Sat 22-Dec-12 16:33:43

Dontbeatmeupitsxmas - not quite sure I understood this bit from your posts Sat 22-Dec-12 14:28:02 "But we have a job to do and that means being there every morning to stock delivery and scbu with nappies and wipes and try to see every mum before she goes home."

Are you talking about supplying samples of nappies, wipes etc in the Bounty packs and then delivering Bounty packs to the wards, including Bounty packs to SCBU & Delivery?
Or are you saying that the hospital you work for buys all the nappies, wipes, cream and baby wash they need for newborn babies from Bounty and you personally have to deliver them all to the SCBU / Delivery? If it's this, that seems a little bizarre.

I was in SCBU at all sorts of times of day when DS was in there, and never saw the Bounty lady in there once. And most times I had a great view of the door to the SCBU office, or the way to the office, from where DS was. Although maybe Bounty didn't provide stock to the SCBU in the hospital I was in.

Osmiornica Sat 22-Dec-12 16:38:57

These stories are awful. I shall be signing the petition when it's up.

Luckily I had homebirths so no bounty people hassling me. I agree that there is no place for sales people in hospital wards. I also don't agree with putting notices up - noone should have to for a start but wouldn't they be just another hygeine issue, more clutter and more things for the midwives to do?

As for bounty reps thinking they're part of the 'team' the mind just boggles at that.

Enigmosaurus Sat 22-Dec-12 16:48:36

Catching up on posts and seeing the 'we' and 'us' thing made me think. At our hospital, the Bounty woman pushes a trolley round with a laptop on top. It's not dissimilar to the trolley used by the hearing screening team, it doesn't help vulnerable, tired women distinguish someone who really is part of the team from someone who just wants their cold, hard cash. It really should not be allowed.

Arthurfowlersallotment Sat 22-Dec-12 16:52:09

What with the crap, cold, useless night staff, stupid cunt breastfeeding counsellor and obese sleep apnea woman in the next bed, the irritating curtain pulling Bounty rep was the least irritating aspect of my four night stay at Watford General.

enigmosaraus makes a good point

Can't even begin to comment on donts posts as I don't want a banning from mn.

maximusminimus Sat 22-Dec-12 17:32:23

CheerfulYank - what's the company called? Are they in every hospital? Need to know if I should be on my guard (#1 born in the UK - luckily no Bounty rep in sight, but #2 due to be born in a large hospital in the US)...

As I said, there was no rep when #1 was born, but I remember worrying about it during pregnancy: just really worried that they would ruin my first hours with my new baby....

I'm sure individual reps can be lovely, but that the set-up is allowed at all is despicable.

beginnings Sat 22-Dec-12 17:42:05

I was disgusted that my community notes came in a Bounty Pack at the beginning. I think pretty much all of the contents went into the recycling bin. I never bothered picking up the next one from wherever I was supposed to pick it up from. I'm not sure the last two ones even came home from hospital with us - although I did take the child benefit form out.

When I said I didn't want the photos, the lady didn't give me any grief but did take my details although ticked the "no spam" box on her system. Despite that I'm now constantly mithered by emails to "Dear Marian" (not my name) telling me what wonderful things I'm missing out on. Every time one arrives I just hit the Report Spam button and nearly 8 months on they're starting to dwindle.

I was even more shocked in another hospital, when visiting a friend, by the woman who breezed into her room in a WHITE COAT trying to sell ceramic foot prints!!

I'll sign anything to get this to stop. I think it's a horrendous way for the NHS to make money.

RowanTheRedNosedMumsnet (MNHQ) Sat 22-Dec-12 18:00:57

Hello hello

We appreciate that lots of you are (quite understandably) cross about this issue, but we still need you to stay on the right side of our Talk Guidelines and not personally attack other posters.

Thanks.

JugglingMeYorkiesAndNutRoast Sat 22-Dec-12 18:01:49

Really, what they give you is so pathetic I can't see anyone missing any of it !
The gap, such as it is, could easily be filled in so many others

JugglingMeYorkiesAndNutRoast Sat 22-Dec-12 18:02:19

by so many others

Svrider Sat 22-Dec-12 18:10:32

I feel I was totally ripped off by the bounty rep, at a very vulnerable time
I absolutely thought she was a member of staff (had v. Similar uniform and had I'd badge)

Interestingly enough I'd decided I wasn't going to be ripped off again with dc3

I was very clear I didn't want any photos
She looked into his cot and said "bloody hell, I'm surprised you don't want photos"

Dc3 has a cleft lip

JenFrankincenseAndMyrrh Sat 22-Dec-12 18:11:08

Sainsbury's freebies are so much better. We were getting a pack of nappies each week for free at one stage.

SarahWarahWoo Sat 22-Dec-12 18:11:58

I met one and she gave me a form for child benefit and for a minute I genuinely believed that she was some sort of official they shouldn't be allowed free access to the maternity wards, just wrong.

(I declined pictures as wasn't feeling my best and a bit shocked at the suggestion tbh)

FrillyMilly Sat 22-Dec-12 18:13:24

I am shocked that in these times of high security and fear of infection that any unnecessary people are allowed on maternity wards. With DC1 the bounty lady came round when I was on my own. After a long and exhausting labour I really didn't know what was going on. I assumed she was a member of staff. The photos were shit and so was the pack. With DC2 I was discharged straight from delivery so didn't see the bounty lady at all.

I don't understand why bounty supply nappies and wipes to SCBU. Where do bounty source these nappies as they are owned by a media company not a baby product manufacturer. Do they supply these for free? Why wouldn't Nhs source these straight from the manufacturer.

5madthings Sat 22-Dec-12 18:17:09

bounty is a load of shite!

i do have the pics from ds1 and tbf its an ok picture, but with ds2 the lady stuck a dummy in his mouth as he was fussing, the same dummy i had seen her stick in another babies mouth just two mins before, not washed or sterilsed inbetween uses. she got really huffy with me when i complained and said she didnt know why mothers where 'so precious about their babies' all hers had dummies blah blah blah!! angry

with ds3 i was discharged straight from delivery and never saw a bounty lady, a midwife gave me a bounty pack, actually i think it was in a cupboard in the delivery room waiting for me.

with ds4 i had to stay in as he had breathing issues and the lady was realy pushy despite me saying i wasnt interested and no i didnt want his picture taking as he was struggling to breath (chest recessing etc and needing blood tests to check he was ok)

with dd i was just very abrupt and told them to go away, she said about the child benefit forms and i told her i had already downloaded the forms, she walked off leaving the bounty pack on my bed.

each time i went through the bounty pack, took out the little pot of sudocream and any other useful freebie, i think there was some washing powder? and wipes and threw the rest of it in the bin at the hospital.

these sales operatives have NO place in a hospital, end of, it would never be allowed in any other situation and its wrong.

and as for the supplying wipes etc to the hospital, my hospital always just provided cotton wool, we were told to bring our own nappies, tho they had a few for emergencies. there was no wipes or cream or baby wash, and why should their be baby wash its not necessary and is actually harsh on babies newborn skin!

5madthings Sat 22-Dec-12 18:17:58

and state congratulations, having seen your new dd on fb she is a cutie pie! i hope you are resting up now you are at home and all is going well xxx

MrsReiver Sat 22-Dec-12 18:18:09

Really Jen? I'm off to investigate Sainsbury's.....

FrameyMcFrame Sat 22-Dec-12 18:19:15

I don't know if it is different now but 12 years ago I definitely did not understand what I was agreeing to and signing. Money was tight, I wouldn't have agreed to it because I knew Icouldn't afford it but I really think the woman took advantage of my mental/physical/emotional state.,

5madthings Sat 22-Dec-12 18:20:13

svrider please tell me you complained? that vile woman should have been fired!

There was a similar thread last year with some awful stories including people who had really poorly babies and therefore didn't have baby with her and Bounty woman popped her head round the door and moaned "oh YOUR still here!"

I had issues with dd and Bounty, not as bad as some of the stories but dd was on a billy bed for jaundice. I was pretty poorly and drugged up on Morphine and she woke me up and demanded I take dd off the jaundice bed to photograph her, I refused and told her doctor had told me to leave her on, she came back and woke me up again (serious complications and still on morphine) and tried the security reason until I told her my mum was a nurse there and I knew that was not true.

I think there is no place at all for Bounty to tour the wards. A room you can access by choice yes.

On no other ward can you sell to VULNERABLE (SP?) people, and new mums are vulnerable.

Cannot imagine someone on a normal surgical ward being subjected to be cold selling after surgery!

5madthings Sat 22-Dec-12 18:22:45

i had ds1 at 20, was preg at 19 and i didnt have a clue about the bounty people i am sure i htought it was someone officially attached to the hospital etc.

oh i remember another thing about the bounty woman with ds2, he was a bit phlegmy when he was newborn, just the usual newborn mucus, which he possetted up in the first few days, but she told me i shouldnt be bfeeding him and that he would choke and new mums today dont know what htey are doing, apparently i shouldnt have fed him till he coughed it up... ermm he never coughed it up, it all wnet into his tummy and he then vomitted it up, very common in newborns i think as they dont have much of a cough reflex!

Longtallsally Sat 22-Dec-12 18:24:26

Have just read this thread end to end and am shock and angry for you all. There are so many similarities between the bad stories that it suggests that these salespeople are trained in the awful techniques you describe.

Will definitely sign the petition. So sad for some of you having to have put up with treatment like this.

FrillyMilly Sat 22-Dec-12 18:27:07

Looks like one PCT has grown wise to bounty. Sorry if this has been linked to already.

www.lancashirechildrenstrust.org.uk/enewsviewer/frmDcDnLd.asp?id=9321

Apparently in blackpool they are trialling mama packs as an alternative. Looks much better than the mini sudocrem

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Sat 22-Dec-12 18:29:49

I am not surprised that the top brass at Bounty gave MNHQ the brush off.

The know that the hospitals are not going to stop them coming and harassing new mothers, because they pay them for access to us.

So we don't matter to them. They don't even have to pretend that we do. They clearly think the NHS isn't going to stop them, regardless how we feel.

Sad thing is - I suspect they're right.

It will take a LOT to change things.

RedToothbrush Sat 22-Dec-12 18:32:08

Frilly I'm going to post the text on that document as its important and I'm not sure everyone will read otherwise:

Issues with Bounty, Infant Feeding Information and wider Public Health concerns

What is Bounty?
Bounty is a company whose primary purpose is to promote commercial products at a time when new parents are undergoing a transition in spending patterns. It uses the NHS to deliver advertising from a range of companies to target pregnant women, newly delivered women and parents for up to a year after birth and beyond. It appears to sell on the database it develops to third parties.

Contact occurs at several points
•Pregnant women receive a Bounty pack at the booking visit with the midwife
•On admission to hospital women in labour receive the overnight essentials pack
•Whilst on the postnatal ward newly delivered women receive the new mother pack
•On discharge from the ward specifically for first baby
•On discharge from the ward for subsequent babies
•Packs issued via the NHS then provide access for parents to collect a Bounty Weaning Pack through local shops and stores

What are the issues with Bounty and Infant Feeding marketing?
Baby Friendly UNICEF (UK) Accreditation requires us to ensure that all materials given to pregnant women and mothers are accurate and effective and adhere to the World Health Organisation Code of Marketing of Breastmilk Substitutes and subsequent resolutions. Considerable time and effort would be required to monitor the ever-changing contents of these packs to ensure that BFI status is not compromised.

Bounty’s statement (October 09) that it will no longer promote weaning foods or toddler milks from early 2010 does not make clear whether or not it intends to comply with the WHO Code of marketing and subsequent resolutions which also cover bottles, teats and dummies. So, although this move is welcome the packs will still need to be monitored.

Bounty has included booklets for new parents which have contained misinformation about infant feeding.

Bounty has made no statement on how it uses information provided to them by parents who sign up for further information. Bounty uses the promotional strap line: “Discover Bounty, your one-stop pregnancy, baby and parenting club”

Key points
Infant Feeding
•Even though Bounty has undertaken to remove advertising of baby milks and foods from 2010, all materials still need to be regularly monitored for inclusion of advertising of bottles, teats and dummies and to check the information in any booklets that are produced.

Wider Public Health Concerns and Governance Issues
•Endorsement by association is significant

•There is concern that parents can conclude that products advertised by Bounty via the NHS are endorsed by the NHS and health professionals.

•Permission has not been sought or obtained from individual health professionals for their professional registration status to be used as endorsement in this way and this could potentially undermine or break codes of conduct and professional standards

•The overload of advertising information in the packs could easily mean that important and key documents (e.g. birth registration & process) which are currently included in Bounty packs amongst the leaflets, will get overlooked. DH advises that this method should not be used to distribute DH/NHS information.

•Bounty Representatives speak to all new mothers on the postnatal ward or take contact details of mothers who have delivered in the hospital and who then take early discharge. This targeting of mothers for marketing purposes provides a ‘captive, no choice audience’ via the NHS and takes place at a vulnerable and impressionable time for new mothers and parents.

•Other issues include
othe cost of the storage of the packs on NHS premises
othe heavy impact of the plastic, paper and transport used in this form of marketing via the NHS.

Bounty and NHS North Lancashire
The issue of Bounty commercial pack distribution has been discussed at several Infant Feeding Information Team meetings after concerns about their contents were raised by staff and users. Bounty representatives were invited to meet with this team to further explore the issue. The Infant Feeding Project Board discussed Bounty in April 08 and ‘concurred there is strong support for discontinuing the arrangement with Bounty’ and sent information about the concerns to the Heads of Midwifery for their consideration.

Commissioners at NHS North Lancashire provided additional funding for designated Infant Feeding Coordinator posts at both hospitals on several conditions including specifically that Bounty was withdrawn by the end of March 09.

Bounty and Blackpool Fylde and Wyre NHS Foundation Hospital Trust
The Head of Midwifery has agreed to withdraw Bounty packs and is developing alternative process for distribution of the legitimate NHS information that was previously included within the packs.

Bounty and Royal Lancaster Infirmary
Feedback is still awaited as to the date when Bounty packs will be withdrawn.

In conclusion
The risks to further delays in the withdrawing of Bounty packs via the NHS would necessitate a rigorous interim process to be established whereby the contents of the packs are regularly checked, and items withdrawn by hand in cases where
•breaches of the WHO Code and subsequent regulations occur
•incorrect Infant Feeding Information is included
•marketing information conflicts with the full range of current Public Health messages
•risks highlighted to the potential challenges of choice; inappropriate use of NHS resources conflicting with NICE Guidance and potential breaches to professional standards and codes of conduct

This paper has been prepared by:
Infant Feeding Consultants; Senior Public Health Improvement Specialist and Assistant Director of Public Health in consultation with members of IFIT and the Infant Feeding Project Board for NHS North Lancashire. November 2009

Appendix 1 – Recent concerns with Bounty

•Booklets contained in the packs distributed by hospitals earlier this year contained adverts from Cow and Gate, Hipp Organic, Muller and Petits Filous. These included inaccurate information of the timing of the introduction of solid foods. They also included prominent logos for companies predominantly associated in the UK with breastmilk substitutes which constitutes a violation of the Code under Article 6.2 and sought indirect contact with parents via their websites, which constitutes a violate of Article 5.5

Unicef (UK) Baby Friendly therefore advised these books were not acceptable in Baby Friendly accredited hospitals and should be removed.

•The Bounty antenatal pack currently distributed at local hospitals contains a leaflet by HiPP organic, manufacturers of formula milk and weaning products. This breaches the WHO Code.

•The current Bounty Weaning Pack contains samples of baby foods inappropriately labelled for use from 4 months.
oCow and Gate Cheesy Sauce sachet labelled for use from 4 – 6 months
oA box of Cow and Gate "Open up to a healthy start to weaning" containing a pot of puree (4 - 36 months), a fruity cereal sachet (4 months onwards) and a pot of "baby balance" (4+months)

Issue with other products
•Previous concerns about items included in the hospital distributed packs have been products such as cartons of Red Bull and toothpastes without fluoride; inappropriate marketing of toothpaste which conflicts with oral health strategies

Appendix 2 – Statement from DH

The DH position on Bounty
In an email sent to regional Infant Feeding Coordinators September 09, Amy Lim from DH said:

‘It has recently come to our attention that some individual NHS trusts have been coming to independent agreement with Bounty to distribute NHS leaflets (namely Off to the Best Start) through the Bounty packs. We have recently reconsidered whether or not Bounty packs are an appropriate medium for distribution of DH/NHS literature and decided against for a number of reasons. If local NHS trusts come to separate agreements regarding the use of Bounty packs this potentially undermines our stance on the use of Bounty packs. Please find below a statement regarding DH's position towards Bounty, which you can share with local Heads of Midwifery, Children's Services etc as necessary.

Kind regards

Amy

Amy Lim
Maternal & Infant Nutrition
Department of Health
020 7972 1373

* Bounty's public-facing website makes it clear that their primary purpose is to promote commercial products at a time of transition in spending patterns. Many infant feeding leads and health professionals believe that the use of the health care system as a vehicle to promote goods to vulnerable new parents is unethical.

* Recent experience shows that, despite strict guidelines, items that breach the Baby Friendly Initiative-compatible agreements do slip through. It is costly, in terms of time, people and expertise, to set up a process to police and prevent such breaches. Such actions are always after the event: it is not possible to recall any packs that have already gone to mothers, and it is not practical to recall packs which have not yet been given out but are already in the system.

* Errors like this put hospitals' BFI accreditation at risk. It could potentially be extremely embarrassing for DH, while devoting large sums of money to supporting the implementation of BFI to also be placing literature in the Bounty pack which causes a hospital to fail BFI accreditation.

* Bounty's business website showcases (on the front page) a case-study of how HiPP used Bounty to market their products to pregnant women and new mothers. As manufacturers of infant formula milk and weaning products, promotion of HiPP and similar brands also promote awareness by association of infant formula to exactly the target audience we would most wish to protect from such advertising.

* The 2008 NICE guidelines on Maternal and Child Nutrition state, with regards to breastfeeding education 'Do not provide written materials in isolation but use them to reinforce face-to-face advice about breastfeeding', which indicates that including leaflets such as 'Off to the Best Start' in Bounty packs will be at best ineffective, and at worst may actually replace face-to-face advice.

Appendix 3 – NICE Guidance

NICE postnatal care guidelines
‘The distribution of commercial packs, for example those given to women when they are discharged from hospital, which contain formula milk or advertisements for formula should not be used’.

NICE PH11 Mother and Child Nutrition
Recommendation 10
Do not provide written materials in isolation but use them to reinforce face-to-face advice about breastfeeding.

Infant formula, Recommendation 14
Avoid promoting or advertising infant or follow-on formula. Do not display, distribute or use product samples, leaflets, posters, charts, educational or other materials and equipment produced or donated by infant formula, bottle and teat manufacturers.

RedToothbrush Sat 22-Dec-12 18:33:01

So in summary ONE PCT has kicked them out FOR HEALTH REASONS!!!!!

EwanHoHoHozami Sat 22-Dec-12 18:38:18

Marking place - I had a horrible experience with one of these women and will happily sign anything that gets them out of the wards.

Although Shiny Dave is such a fan of private funding initiatives I think we'll have a job...

orangeberries Sat 22-Dec-12 18:47:00

I just wanted to add that I had a similar encounter with a Bounty rep for all my children and when with my fourth child we said we weren't interested (DH Happened to be there) we were faced with very rude comments. I felt very vulnerable and was happy DH was there to tell her to go away. Midwives were present when she treated us so badly and didn't utter a word, they seemed to be more on her side than ours tbh. That surprised me even more.

Horrified this is allowed to continue - what next? People selling drinks after you gave birth, maternity bras and babygros? grrrrrrr

I'm afraid I'm not as nice as you lot. I got the 'you can't get child benefit without this' <while waving pack> - snatched the pack, took the forms, pointed out they belong to the govt not her, told her to feck off.

Unsurprisingly she didn't offer to photograph DS after that grin

But you can also get it here www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/ch2-online.pdf

Narked Sat 22-Dec-12 19:04:45

[Grin] WMMC

LillethTheCat Sat 22-Dec-12 19:24:14

Remarking place.

Luckily for me I didn't have it too bad, in fact its only since reading this thread that I realise who exactly they are and I dont like it. My best experience was with DD1 as I went into labour 4:30AM, she was born 7:32AM and I left the hospital at 11:30AM. The photos of DS were nice and we did get them. The photos of DD2 were not very good so we didn't buy, but we weren't pushed into it. Feel really sad for those with the horror stories. They are just horrible.

All sales people annoy me and a lot of them say that they are not sales people. In fact I think a great many of the sales people genuinely dont think they are sales people at all as that it the spiel they've been fed by the company that they work for.

Looking forward to signing this petition when it gets up and running. I agree with those above that we should also be trying to get the NHS to do something about it too. I feel that they are also to blame for bounty.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sat 22-Dec-12 19:29:49

I was asked if I wanted a photo, said no and off she went.
Seems I was lucky.
I am horrified at some of the stories on here and I'd be happy to sign the petition.

Xenia Sat 22-Dec-12 19:31:12

They should not be allowed. I have managed to avoid maternity wards as either had the baby at home or had a 6 hour transfer home, but I think they are very intrusive. The hospitals probably like the money they make from it all but they ought to manage without it.

Perhaps those against them should try photographing the bounty photographers and record what they say and how they intrude and then we can make via people's contributions a composite video on youtube of how negative their effect it.

Saccrofolium Sat 22-Dec-12 19:39:41

I just googled "maternity liason bounty" and omg Bounty packs are THE way of communicating anything! That's going to be the hurdle - replacing that function, which obviously has a cost attached.

The people whom this affects the most (new mothers) are essentially one off service users who aren't paying the bill.

Nothing will change, I predict with some confidence. sad

tsetohje Sat 22-Dec-12 19:40:16

Eagerly awaiting petition! I vaguely remember the one I saw after my first being an arsey cow when I refused her wares and no idea about last time.

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 20:09:19

what function Saccrofolium?
the only function I can think of is that the unit's budget is based on having it's commission from Bounty. My community notes were in the bounty folder but the rest was all unnecessary junk! And I'm pretty confident that I'll be able to claim CB for no2 without the post natal pack - what else is in there that you need? there's no info about biological nurturing or anything useful like that!

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 20:13:44

also they have Bounty in one of the hospitals near me, and not the other. The women in the one without obviously cope just fine so there can't be anything vital in them

nipersvest Sat 22-Dec-12 20:15:53

we got, or rather dh got sucked in by bounty when we had dd. i didn't know who the lady was or what she was doing, the photo's were taken while i'd gone for a bath. was furious when i came back, with both her and dh for agreeing to it. £25 for some crap photo's, which look nothing like dd.

thankfully, with ds i was in and out so quick we didn't see the bounty lady that time.

Saccrofolium Sat 22-Dec-12 20:16:31

You'd think so, but put the same google search in and turn read the resulting meeting minutes: Bounty is perceived to be a part of the way in which info is disseminated. To replace that at its most basic level you need to supply folders, relevant forms, proprietary info and then someone to coordinate and distribute it. That has a cost impact, which I'll wager isn't worth the tears of vulnerable women, in the service commissioners' views.
To affect change you need a viable and ultimately easier/cheaper alternative. Supply that and Bounty will be gone.

OhDearNigel Sat 22-Dec-12 20:22:49

We supply scbu, birth centre and delivery with nappies, wipes, cream and baby wash

Why ? NHS guidance to parents is that no chemical products (ie. wipes and baby wash) should be used on a newborn baby.

Lovecat Sat 22-Dec-12 20:23:06

I got deleted? Wow, I didn't think I'd said anything more than ChippingIn did a few posts down...

Someone's a bit touchy...hmm

Nigglenaggle Sat 22-Dec-12 20:24:31

Wow. And to think I was pissed off that I couldn't get their e-mails classified as junk (a true description if ever there was one). I had no idea of their true evil.

FrillyMilly Sat 22-Dec-12 20:25:03

The only thing I can think of that is important in a bounty pack is the CB form which could be given with the birth certificate instead or handed to you with your discharge notes or brought to you by the community midwife post natal or given to you by the HV. No one needs a folder for their notes. Mine never went in one and the leaflets I was given by my midwife where in a plastic wallet.

Hmm - my notes weren't in a Bounty folder. Which, now I think of it, annoys me even more because I didn't sign up to Bounty at any point so why the hell was she allowed in my room?

One good thing: my local hospital trust has sent me a leaflet about becoming a trustee. I think I shall be taking them up on that.

OhDearNigel Sat 22-Dec-12 20:27:02

once the petition is up I will send links to it round all the blogs/journalists mentioned on the thread

owl13 Sat 22-Dec-12 20:28:46

After giving birth to DC2, the Bounty lady popped her head round the curtains which were closed around my bed for a very good reason. Was so flabbergasted I didn't complain about the invasion of privacy. They're not medical staff, so why would they think this is OK?

ArkadyRose Sat 22-Dec-12 20:29:54

Frilly, our registrar gives you the CB form when you register the birth. So the Bounty pack isn't needed at all.

DD3 was a home birth and it was so nice not to have to face all the harassment from the Bounty Bitches. I actually refused the Bounty folder when I went for my booking-in appointment this time round, which rather surprised the midwife - in fact she was a bit pushy trying to get me to take it, which makes me wonder if the community midwife teams are also getting payoffs from Bounty and they have a certain minimum target they have to reach with them? Either way, Bounty can fuck off as far as I'm concerned - I'm not going to walk around giving them free advertising.

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 20:30:07

I'm obv not getting the same search results as you because I still don't see what you're talking about?

there honestly was nothing other than advertising in the folder my community notes came in, and they didn't need a folder as they're stapled, so no cost whatsoever in printing or supplying of folders if they got rid of them!

and there was nothing in the bounty pack the bounty bitch gave me in the post natal ward that I needed! (already had a CB form)

JugglingMeYorkiesAndNutRoast Sat 22-Dec-12 20:40:18

YY, Well done Nigel! - Will look out for the petition and an update from you soon. And well done to Confusion for raising this issue from your maternity bed. Huge congrats to you too thanks

QuickQuickSleigh Sat 22-Dec-12 20:41:38

I was in a side room after giving birth to my son. I had a hard time and sustained awful tears. I was in a really quite poorly state and came out of the shower with lochia running down my legs to find the bounty lady standing over my precious sleeping baby.

I didn't actually breathe fire but the GET OUT that I roared at her was primal!

She should not have been anyway where near us, the door was closed for a reason!

QuickQuickSleigh Sat 22-Dec-12 20:42:27

Ps massive congratulations and merry Christmas OP x

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 20:43:25

how come when the mods first read the thread my posts were allowed to stand, but now they're deleted???

how is pointing to evidence (the recruitment link) that proves a rep of a company is lying about what they do in the presence of a vulnerable captive audience a "personal attack"???

The persons misleading posts are still up there, why can't I point mums to be in the direction of proof that what they have said Bounty do on the wards is not true?

Is that really what the talk guidelines consider a personal attack? I though it was giving people the oportunity to see the truth before they get bombarded on the wards with more of it!

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 20:45:07

(wasn't even my opinion, was proof from Bounty's own recruitment ad??)

OhDearNigel Sat 22-Dec-12 20:47:23

My suggestions for how Bounty's activities on wards should be curtailed:

1) Reps should be based in the day room to allow families to approach the rep, not the other way round
2) Child benefit forms should be removed from the Bounty pack. The government should not be seen to be endorsing a business in this way
3) Bounty should be forced to introduce a staff uniform which is very different from an NHS uniform and have the Bounty logo clearly displayed
4) There should be a cooling-off period for people that order photos
5) Any member of Bounty staff that does not comply by their code of conduct should immediately be removed from their post
6) Bounty rep must be obliged to explain very clearly what will happen with the personal data they collect before it is given

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sat 22-Dec-12 20:50:52

Jingle MNHQ don't necessarily read the whole thread to begin with - they look at a reported post to see if it's a PA and delete if so.

If they then get multiple reports about different posts on a thread, they may give the whole thread a once over.

OhDearNigel Sat 22-Dec-12 20:51:41

* Bounty is perceived to be a part of the way in which info is disseminated. To replace that at its most basic level you need to supply folders, relevant forms, proprietary info and then someone to coordinate and distribute it.*

- Nobody needs a folder for their handheld notes. If you really do, supply your own
- the only form supplied is Child Benefit, presumably that is printed by the government. Make it available at post offices like every other form or the registrar when you register the child's birth.
- the only thing any parent needs is the CB form. Everything else is advertising so there is no need for someone to coordinate and distribute it

PurpleTinsel Sat 22-Dec-12 20:51:59

Possible stupid question here - what are these community notes that are supposed to be in the first Bounty folder you get?

Is this the same as the handheld maternity record that has all your pregnancy health details written up in?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sat 22-Dec-12 20:52:07

Nigel they sound like great suggestions. I never understood the CB form being in the pack - are HMRC getting a cut as well as the NHS?

Leverette Sat 22-Dec-12 20:52:48

Adding my support and looking forward to signing the petition.

Absolutely horrified and disgusted at some of the accounts posted here angry

What on earth are these people doing intruding into curtained bedspaces, commenting on extremely sensitive medical and psychological situations and peddling their disingenuous crap in a frankly predatory manner.

I'd really like to know if they are CRB checked, does anyone know?

OhDearNigel Sat 22-Dec-12 20:55:26

essentially Bounty are a data collection agency. The bounty packs/friendly bounty ladies are simply window dressing to try and make it less immoral

FrameyMcFrame Sat 22-Dec-12 20:55:59

very good OhDearNigel

emsyj Sat 22-Dec-12 20:56:14

<Marking place to get petition details>

I've just emailed my local maternity ward to enquire whether Bounty reps are allowed on there - it's all private rooms on post-natal so they would have to knock on the door and be let in anyway, and I plan to put it in my birth plan that I do NOT consent to them having access to me. I don't remember having a major issue last time, she couldn't take a photo as DD was having her hearing test done and she didn't bother to return (thank goodness) - but I don't want to be approached this time if it's avoidable.

PurpleTinsel Sat 22-Dec-12 20:57:34

Leverette - upthread, the Bounty lady posting on here, Dontbeatmeupitsxmas, said that she was CRB checked.

HongKongPooey Sat 22-Dec-12 20:59:35

latecomer, marking place. had similar awful experience to some of those mentioned above.

Leverette Sat 22-Dec-12 21:03:49

Thanks purple I missed that

jinglebellyalltheway Sat 22-Dec-12 21:04:58

"Possible stupid question here - what are these community notes that are supposed to be in the first Bounty folder you get?

Is this the same as the handheld maternity record that has all your pregnancy health details written up in?"

its the notes you have with you throughout the pregnancy, and take home with you and then in to any appointments or hospital visits, as opposed to the hospital notes that stay in the hospital IYKWIM

Mine are a stapled A4 booklet that gets written in every time I see a midwife, there are pages for sticking on other things like letters from consultant and blood results etc.

it does not need a folder. It's pretty self contained. It was inside a bounty folder and all the other stuff in the folder was junk sponsored by top priced brands

I have put mine in a folder of my own, but it doesn't need one!

OhDearNigel Sat 22-Dec-12 21:11:36

well, Bounty's current "offer" is £44.99:

one 10 x 8" photograph
one 7 x 5" photograph
two 6 x 4" photograph (standard snapshot size)
one keyring
one wallet card
four thankyou cards

Using Boots and my own photo I could get that lot for £6.76 (only thing I couldn't find on there was a wallet card)

PurpleTinsel Sat 22-Dec-12 21:12:07

Thanks jingle.

I got given those notes by the receptionist at my GP surgery - loose and in no kind of folder at all - when I went in to make my booking in appointment. And then I put them in a folder of my own when I got home.

Got a separate Bounty pack later from the midwife without an extra set of blank notes inside!

emsyj Sat 22-Dec-12 21:12:17

My maternity notes are in an A4 plastic clip file this time. I put the Bounty plastic folder in the bin last time and left my yellow card and paper note folder out on its own. Nobody "needs" the Bounty folder or the Bounty pack.

OhDearNigel Sat 22-Dec-12 21:21:58

can anyone confirm whether their bounty packs have included anything from a formula company ? I can't remember (it was 3 years ago now) and the Analytical Armadillo blog says about sending off for Aptamil stuffed toys.

If this is the case surely this is a clear breach of the WHO guidelines and the NHS' own breastfeeding policies ?

OhDearNigel Sat 22-Dec-12 21:26:05
OhWhatAPalaver Sat 22-Dec-12 21:32:17

is there a link to the petition? i searched for it on the website but can't find it.

thankfully i can't really remember much about the bounty lady who left me a pack. she may or may not have asked if we wanted photos but i was so zonked from all the painkillers and severe anaemia that i can not recall much about my time on the postnatal ward!!

they sound like a right bunch of twats though. can't believe the harassment some people have had sad

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 22-Dec-12 21:34:08

I think a big issue is also the fact that the "Bounty lady" is paid on a commission basis. Like any other commission paid sales person they will generally be pushy, often obnoxious.

There is no need for them to follow the Bounty code of Conduct, how many new mums/dads real feel up to/remember to complain.

And hospital staff are already woefully overstretched, they do not have the time to monitor Bounty and see if they are breaking all the rules.

MrsReiver Sat 22-Dec-12 21:34:19

The petition could take up to 7 days to appear on the website Palaver, but when a link is available it will be posted here.

FivesGoldNorks Sat 22-Dec-12 21:36:34

State, congratulations btw grin

DontmindifIdo Sat 22-Dec-12 21:38:30

I just threw the folder anyway, and put mine in a clear plastic clip folder. I only wanted a folder incase anything gets loose from the bits they stick in. Otherwise, it doesn't really need a folder.

OhWhatAPalaver Sat 22-Dec-12 21:39:42

thanks MrsReiver i will be signing!!

hopefully i'll be more with it when we have our next DC and i can tell them in no uncertain terms to bugger off. even more hopefully they won't be allowed on wards by then!

MrsReiver Sat 22-Dec-12 21:41:28

I wish I had community notes like you all seem to have, mine are in a plastic folder and yet bits still keep falling out. I live in terror of losing my appointment cards or the sheet with my name and address stickies on.

SuffolkNWhat Sat 22-Dec-12 22:04:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SuffolkNWhat Sat 22-Dec-12 22:05:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

skandi1 Sat 22-Dec-12 22:12:36

Dontbeatmeup. You are enraging me!! Seriously??!! "I check every morning for mums who have had c sections and need to rest"

Really??!! Then why the fuck did I have 6 "visit" from two separate Bounty folk, the first less then 3 hours after an emcs and a 52 hour labour. This followed by a further 5 visits in the next 3 hours.

And no I didn't buy and of your shit and no I did not believe your less than charming colleague who told me she needed my details or I would not be able to claim CB.

That was at UCH. Had DS at the Portland and no Bounty fecker there. Which was nice.

Can't wait to sign that petition.

Catree55 Sat 22-Dec-12 22:20:27

Marking place to sign the petition when it arrives!

emsyj Sat 22-Dec-12 22:34:27

As far as they key issue of Bounty's presence on the maternity wards goes, I don't personally think it matters a whole lot whether the Bounty rep is 'nice', 'polite' or checks if you've had a section. To me, it is just 101% inappropriate and wrong for a sales rep from a private company to (a) be permitted to wander a publicly funded hospital ward in order to make sales and collect data and (b) for this to be presented as a compulsory part of labour and delivery in an NHS hospital.

The Bounty rep I met last time wasn't rude to me - but she did collect my personal details from somewhere (not from me or with my consent) and they were sold on judging by the amount of junk mail I received for a full year after DD wa