Campaign to end Bounty sales reps' access to maternity wards - please read and share

[JustineMumsnet]

Evening all,

Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to fill in our survey on Bounty and share your stories - from the initial idea onwards, this really is a campaign that has been prompted by your concerns, as posted on Mumsnet.

The survey showed that a very large majority (82%) felt it was unacceptable for Bounty sales reps to be on hospital wards, as well as highlighting a number of other concerns about Bounty reps' selling practices, so we're calling on government to end this kind of direct selling/data collecting on NHS wards. See more here.

It's clear, from the survey results, that, even after Bounty updated its code of conduct (these results only include users who gave birth from May 2012 - the full results containing prior data are here) its practices leave a lot to be desired, and that Mumsnet users feel very strongly that the maternity ward is no place for a hard sell, so we're really hoping that government will listen to us.

Here's how you can help...

Please sign the petition

If you're on Twitter please tweet your support for the campaign with the hashtag #bountymutiny and the following link:

tiny.mn/1bsnpNw

If you're on Facebook then please like campaign page our campaign page (there's a FB link to click at the top on the left).

If you're on Google+, well, you'll know what to do.

We'll, of course, keep you posted here about the campaign and any developments. Thanks to everyone for their stories, honesty and input. Here's hoping we can make a difference!

I would like to see them removed. Some of the hospitals make quite a bit of money, say £100,000 a year (??) from their exclusive contracts with Bounty though and others refuse ever to let them in on moral grounds. So it all depends if the particular hospital is tempted by the filthy lucre and commercialism.

I was really happy to read in the paper that Mumsnet was campaigning about this. When I had my first baby I had no idea who the Bounty people were and thought it was something to do with the hospital. I remember feeling really resentful when I left hospital as I'm normally really careful about who I give personal info to. I was only in hospital for one night and when they came round I was in no fit state to understand what was happening.

Xenia Most hospitals seem to be tempted by the filthy lucre and commercialism. Well, certainly the filthy lucre anyway. Anyone been to an NHS hospital recently with a free or even reasonably priced car park or a bedside phone/tv package for under £3 a day with calls costing less than 50 p a minute - in or out?

Thought not.

I had a bag of Bounty stuff left at the end of my bed after DS was born. I didn't see anyone so didn't give any details out. Am I being very naive? Did they use the clipboard at the end of the bed to get info?

I love the idea of the bounty pack

I love a few freebies.
better freebies and more of them.would begreat.

I don't love the bounty rep idea.
I wasn't even supposed tobe in hospital, so there I was all iron-lacking and weak.
she came inn without asking. luckily because of mn, I knew who she was, so was prepared.
ish.
I let her take pictures of dd, but couldn't order any because the only one she looked good in was a shit one with a random rabbit and I hate it. I even told her not to put the rabbit in the shot.

yes she was nice, but there's no place for them on the Ward.
let them have appointments or an open slot in the dayroom or even in aspecial office but not visiting each bed.

they could quite easily put a bounty pack on each bed in preparation for the mum's arrival on the ward.

Up thread somebody mentioned that the NHS gets £2.3 million from Bounty.

How much does it cost the NHS to treat the gastric infections and allergies in children who are discouraged from breast feeding by the freebie powdered milk and marketing bumph in the post natal ward.

DD is 15 but I found it offensive even then.

Post natal wards are NO place for sales reps.

I haven't read every comment so I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but has anyone looked at whether it is actually a breach of the Data Protection Act to allow Bounty reps onto the ward? They are not medical staff, but they are allowed to walk around the ward and see women who have just given birth: surely this is 'sensitive personal data' that the hospital should be protecting???

I imagine if I rang my local maternity unit and asked if my (currently heavily pregnant) friend was there and if she'd had her baby (and if so whether it was a vaginal or caesarean delivery and if she'd had a boy or a girl etc etc) they would, quite rightly, tell me that I wasn't entitled to know that information without her consent. They would presumably (for patient confidentiality) tell me absolutely nothing, not even confirming if she was on the ward. WHY are Bounty allowed access to this information?

emsyj I've mentioned it before. When I very briefly looked into it, I think there is a case to be answered - I got the impression that hospitals have a duty of care to patients in their care to protect their privacy under law; which could include giving over personal information under certain circumstances but without having proper legal knowledge I'm not 100% sure about it, and in any case, even if that was the case it would probably require a test case to set legal precedent.

The main problem with that, is that women who have just given birth, generally have other priorities rather than set themselves up to be part of a test case. This is part of the problem of the entire situation; women who are in this situation who would have the best cases would be the most vulnerable and almost certainly simply wouldn't have the motivation to act for change. Which of course makes them the prefect prey for commercial exploitation of this type.

The whole thing is something of a catch 22. Which is why it needs/needed someone like MN to get behind a campaign to push this on behalf of women.

The most curious thing about the whole thing is the fact that Bounty still have the nerve to say they don't get many complaints - in the face of an ever increasing number of pretty outrageous anecdotes posted by various women in response to threads, news articles and this very campaign.

Do they really expect us all to believe that ALL these women are making it up?

And do they really think that any of these stories would exist if they were banned from wards?

Thank you, Mumsnet.

My first baby is due in September and I am dreading dealing with these people.

I have no idea what to expect from the experience, but the last thing I need is more anxiety about whether the f-cking Bounty woman will pop her head round the curtain while I'm an emotional wreck/ bleeding/ on strong painkillers/ trying to sleep/ etc.

Why SHOULD these people have this access?

To all those going on about bags - this isn't about the bags. The bags can be left behind, recycled, chucked etc. Nobody cares about the bloody bags!

This is about a marketing rep having access to a vulnerable NHS patient. It's about a commercial company having exclusive access to a hospital ward. It's about families not being allowed to visit, yet marketing reps, possibly dressed very much like nurses, being allowed free access whenever they want it.

Shared on FB, and thanks again.

PS. Mumof4granof1 - if your attitude is typical of Bounty reps, I'm sure the majority of criticism on this post is thoroughly justified.

when I had DD bounty rep was clearly only interested in taking pics so she could flog them to me......DH is a professional photographers so he could have done a better job. but DD had to be transferred to another hospital when 4 hrs old as she needed intensive care and surgery. DH had gone with her, so I was on my own a few hours after an emcs. bounty woman came in and asked where my baby was, told her she was poorly and had been taken to another hospital. so she chatted away then asked me 'are you sure your baby isn't here?' WTF
soooo glad to see someone has taken this up

I've had two babies, both of the Bounty Ladies that saw me were actually nice and non intrusive I have been with mumsnet for 10 years and usually go with the masses. But I know I am not in the standard Mumsnet Demo's.After I had my first baby was under no illusion that I would get offered vouchers etc, she asked me and I said that's fine. I think this campaign will really affect low income, single and young mums who are happy with money off vouchers. I had a few E mails then unsubscribed then heard nothing.

Having watched a rep sell photos totalling 45 quid to someone in the bed opposite who spent the rest of her time on the ward trying to work out if they could afford the bus fare to get home, I desperately feel these people should not be allowed onto maternity wards.

They spoke to me as I was recovering from a general anaesthetic, while I was struggling to start BFing and earlier in the morning than my husband was allowed in to help me.

Totally fucking ridiculous.

Daisy229, here's what you say if a rep does show up:

"No, thank you. Goodbye."

I too am expecting in September. It's really not worth getting worked up over.

Well nothings worth getting worked up over...

but I do think that people blundering in hassling women who might have been separated from or even lost their babies is something worth preventing.

I think this campaign will really affect low income, single and young mums who are happy with money off vouchers. I had a few E mails then unsubscribed then heard nothing.

mummyplonk oh it definitely will because right now they are being told that these (high end, over priced) products are practically NHS recommended. And they are getting hooked on the products with vouchers that will eventually stop. If right away they start on supermarket own brand realize they are not an inferior product they will save LOADS.

I think my dh had told a Bounty rep to F* off! I was recovering from a cs at the time. But I got my bounty bag later from Boots. Most of it was put in the recycling bin.

They shouldn't be allowed to force you to hand over your details, and certainly not force you to have photos done. Its taking advantage of women last their most vulnerable.

"No, thank you. Goodbye."

If only that was enough to get rid of them! Oh no, they'll be back again, they'll swoosh that curtain back and roll their eyes when you decline again.

no, the nhs gets 2.2 million from bounty and £90k from the govt. and in, that's how much the govt pay bounty to distribute benefit forms. me no cynic

I think this campaign will really affect low income, single and young mums who are happy with money off vouchers.

Do you know how much your personal information is worth to companies and how much Bounty make off them. There is no reason why they could not continue to have Bounty pack and reps - the thing is they need to be kept off post natal wards - in theory they could have a place elsewhere within a hospital environment which meant low income mothers could still enjoy the benefits. The key to this is removing the aggressive sales practises which include collecting personal information as this is a commercial practice and making Bounty comply fully with Trading Standards, which I do not believe they do, if they operate by selling bed to bed.

Be under no illusions, if the real strength of Bounty is the fact they go bed to bed and they would loose money if they couldn't do this, then that tells you all you need to know about aggressive sales practices.

Personally, I actually believe that the market is lucrative enough for Bounty for them to continue off ward. The NHS should actually wake up and realise that they are in control of this situation and they can dictate the terms on which Bounty operate and Bounty still would probably cough up exactly the same money to still offer packs and a book in service. I do not believe that the NHS and patient need loose out on money from this campaign. They just need to smarten up and realise just how much money is being made by commercial companies.

"No, thank you. Goodbye."

It's not as easy as that. I have tried that and that when the trouble has begun. They were rude, had to be persuaded to actually leave and the midwife present rolled her eyes but didn't actually say anything, making me feel even worse.

It's not exactly like you can walk away is it. And it is the principle that is all wrong. Marketing on the wards = wrong. They can always set up a stand in the foyer and new mums who want it can pick up their pack on their way out.

Could MN produce some sort of "No thank you, goodbye" badges to affix to the curtains to make it clear that if they approach you they are 1) wasting their time and 2) doing so against your wishes?

If there are some people who value this 'service', surely it would be easy enough for this preference to be stated on birth plans and visits allowed or not accordingly? I'm suspecting if anyone else I didn't want to visit showed up expecting access to me in the hours after birth, I'd be able to ask that they be removed?

This story has been picked up by The Wright Stuff this morning.

Mumsnet - you might want to contact the information commissioner (regulator of data protection matters) to discuss whether they feel there are steps they should take. Would include:

(a) Bounty being given access to personal data and in some cases sensitive personal data (a class that gets higher protection) due to their access to the wards
(b) collection of data from women not always in a position to give informed consent
(c) not following requirements eg saying how data collected will be used and shared
(d) inappropriate behaviour eg where reps have said can't get the child benefit forms without giving the your data

The statement is correct that each hospital takes a decision about whether it will have (a) exclusive contracts with Bounty and not let its competitors in(b) if it will let all of them in ( c) if it will let none in. The hospitals are paid by the companies like Bounty for the access. Some allow them in. Some don't.

My view is that none of them should be allowed in as women are vulnerable after they have given birth and I would rather the hospital had worse provision and funding and be shorter staffed than have the money and allow the Bounty etc people in. Not everyone would be of the same view.

I never encountered a rep. personally as each birth was either at home or a "six hour transfer" even for the first birth so I was never in long enough to see any reps.

I like the idea of stickers. If a ban is not possible. Mothers could put them on their hospital bed saying they want no photos or commercial gifts or visits.

I think there is or was a list out there of which hospitals allow reps in and which don't. It is certainly not all hospitals by any means. Plenty have taken the view many do on mumsnet that they can manage without the money and keep representatives off wards.