Campaign to end Bounty sales reps' access to maternity wards - please read and share

[JustineMumsnet]

Evening all,

Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to fill in our survey on Bounty and share your stories - from the initial idea onwards, this really is a campaign that has been prompted by your concerns, as posted on Mumsnet.

The survey showed that a very large majority (82%) felt it was unacceptable for Bounty sales reps to be on hospital wards, as well as highlighting a number of other concerns about Bounty reps' selling practices, so we're calling on government to end this kind of direct selling/data collecting on NHS wards. See more here.

It's clear, from the survey results, that, even after Bounty updated its code of conduct (these results only include users who gave birth from May 2012 - the full results containing prior data are here) its practices leave a lot to be desired, and that Mumsnet users feel very strongly that the maternity ward is no place for a hard sell, so we're really hoping that government will listen to us.

Here's how you can help...

Please sign the petition

If you're on Twitter please tweet your support for the campaign with the hashtag #bountymutiny and the following link:

tiny.mn/1bsnpNw

If you're on Facebook then please like campaign page our campaign page (there's a FB link to click at the top on the left).

If you're on Google+, well, you'll know what to do.

We'll, of course, keep you posted here about the campaign and any developments. Thanks to everyone for their stories, honesty and input. Here's hoping we can make a difference!

Interesting to see that it is mostly Labour MPs that have signed the Early Day Motion. Nice to see that 1 local MP has signed it even though we don't have Bounty reps down here. Just a shame that my MP is unable to sign them

A reply from my MP to me asking her to sign the early day motion-

"Many MPs, including me, do not sign EDMs as they do not lead to any action being taken and raise expectations unrealistically. They are simply statements of opinion which form a list and which is deleted at the end of every parliamentary session. I find it much more effective to make direct contact"

So that's a no then.

Sounds like there's some potential to follow up there though milktray - ie. you could ask them if they'll be making "direct contact" to raise these issues and concerns - presumably with Bounty themselves ?

... or with the Trusts ?

Rowan, how m many have you head back from?

Does anyone know if there's a list or know the list of trusts who've have out?

milktray, you're not the first to get that response, sounds positive to me.

Hairyworm that's the thing that ticked me off - I wasn't asked to fill in a form, she put it all onto a computer and I KNOW (because I always do) that I said don't pass my details on. I was being bombarded daily with emails addressed to "marian" (similar to but not my name!) which I dutifully unsubscribe from and report as spam. They've almost stopped now.

Have written to Chief Administrator of my Trust and to my MP about the EDM.

Yes MP is going to talk to the trust chief exec instead.

I think a major problem is everyone's too exhausted & busy to actually complain to the pals service post natally.

Right I'm going to get a slating on here but I think this campaign is completely one sided and I'm thinking that this smear campaign against the country's best parenting club is a way for mums net to raise their profile! I saw the bounty rep she was lovely took some beautiful pictures which I still have on my wall and every person I heard her speak to was happy. If you don't want the services just say no because there are many women like myself who like the service and are happy they are there.

Have you actually read the thread at all? Or the one about this on the Bounty forum Bethrubytoby?

It's not about Bounty vs Mumsnet - MN don't need to do that with so many members. Bounty is not really competition to them (if it were Netmums however you may have had a point?)

Not everyone has themselves had a personal bad experience, I haven't but I support those who have, I still support this petition though because as nice as an individual Bounty Sales Rep is, they should have no place direct selling on a bloody hospital ward!

I've not had a reply from my MP yet.

sigh

shall we start with RTFT?

Bounty are not competition for Mumsnet, personally I think MN is a better parenting club so I think that statement is rather subjective. I'm also a fan of Boots and got far more out of that than Bounty! I'm not sure what qualifies Bounty as the best anyway

This isn't anti-Bounty, anti-Bounty bags or a vendetta against bad reps, it's anti-DSM on wards.

Also, are you a. incapable of using a camera or b. unable to go elsewhere? There are much cheaper, even free ways to get a picture of your baby. You make it sound like they're the only people capable of taking a picture of a baby!

btw, my youngest daughter's picture won photo of the week, the rep told everyone next time she saw me how beautiful and photogenic my girls are, my involvement (before I knew MN were involved I'd written about the BMJ article - btw, what's their excuse? our NCT?) is not a vendetta.

Still got to send my letter to south manchester... I will try and do tonight. Have been up the wall for last few days.

Hello

We have had quite a few rather, um, stonewalling responses from Trusts - we'll have a think about a way to publish them so you can see what they're saying (some of their responses are curiously... uniform )

But that's all the more reason for people to keep contacting their Trusts. One of the main excuses we're seeing is 'people don't complain about them, therefore there can't be a problem'. As others have said, post-natal women tend to have a few other things on their minds and thus rarely complain - but retrospective complaints can be just as powerful.

And yes, anyone whose MP has said they don't sign EDMs: this is true of a lot of MPs. Do please follow up to ask them to write to whichever trust is in their constituency and let you know the outcome - again, getting a letter from the local MP probably concentrates a trust chief exec's mind a little bit.

I've just checked, and it doesn't look as though we've had a response from South Manchester yet.

If there are any other trusts you want me to check, post here and I'll have a look

I am getting my (hb) mw on board, btw. She is NHS but HB team so doesn't do wards, but still has Bounty packs to give to women at home.

She showed great interest in the campaign and is very concerned with women's autonomy in L&D and recovery in general so I hope she can get involved.

hi Rowan, have you heard from York NHS trust? I emailed the head a week or so ago but no response yet. Also no response yet from my MP except to acknowledge the email, hmph.
Actually I haven't had any Bounty stuff this pregnancy (am 40+weeks now!) but I think York still have a contract with them.

We have indeed heard from the York Chief Exec: here's what he says

'Dear Ms Roberts

Thank you for your e-mail sent 24th June 2013 regarding York Teaching Hospital NHS Foundation Trust and Bounty.

I asked the Head of Midwifery, Mrs Liz Ross to investigate the concerns you have highlighted.

York Teaching Hospital NHS Foundation Trust do have a contract with Bounty and have done so for many years. The current contract is for a period of 3 years dated 17th June 2013. As a newly merged Trust with Scarborough, this contract is for both York and Scarborough sites.

The contract agreement clearly states that Bounty are registered with the Criminal Records Bureau and disclosures are obtained for employees (now called the Disclosure Baring Service).

Bounty do request permission from women on the postnatal ward to record their name and address. They may use this information in strict accordance with the Data Protection Act to mail product information and offers to mothers who express a wish to receive such mailings from Bounty and other reputable companies. Giving this permission is not a condition for receiving the free Bounty packs.

Bounty have fed back to the Trust that in a recently conducted survey of 3,000 mums in January 2013, 91% rated the communications they receive about brands and products from Bounty as acceptable.

Mrs Ross is obviously concerned to hear that you have raised concerns regarding aggressive commercial practices, quoting 2008 Unfair Trading Regulations. There have been no such issues raised by mothers at YTHFT that Mrs Ross is aware of, however, she has asked the Matrons on each site to enquire during their regular ward rounds, if there are any concerns regarding the practice of Bounty sales representatives. Any concerns raised will be taken seriously and followed up by Matron and the Bounty Manager.

I trust this answers the questions you have raised.'

MNHQ, I think you should double check on what some of these trusts are really doing with some FOI requests. See if they really are safeguarding properly and do understand what sales practices etc are...

...I personally think if you word it right, it will make for some interesting reading.

In short, I think that all hospitals really should have done some sort of formal review about the potential for financial, emotional and institutional abuse.

I seriously doubt most have.

The NHS has an obligation to take steps to protect against the potential risk if a risk is flagged. Nothing needs to have happened. No cases of complaint need to have been reported. They just have to be aware that this is a legitimate concern and that it represents a potential problem.

I think your little survey does that much...

Thanks Rowan, not the most satisfying response! I'll make sure I flag up any concerns I have if I end up on the PN ward in the next week or 2 (hoping for homebirth though).

Rowan, have you got any responses from trusts in Birmingham and surrounding?

I'm unmoved by the 3,000 tbh. firstly it doesn't match the numbers we're looking at and secondly was the question "is DSM acceptable on a postnatal ward?" included? No one is questioning if the packs are informative (although I think many of us are skeptical) it's a totally different subject.

I was talking to my photographer (from the magazine I'm editor of) and he was saying he and his wife have included Bounty on her birth plan, I joked they need a poster in case she goes to the ward. So I've made one up, or more precisely, four! they have different text on for different scenarios. my husband's going to pdf it tomorrow for me, if MNHQ are interested in it?

I'll have a look Suffolk, I'm sure out could be put 4 to a page then shared with bay-mates.

I'm not sure who made the Bounty inside a stop sign logo, but I pinched it for my posters, if it's anyone in particular's, do let me know if it's ok.