Campaign to end Bounty sales reps' access to maternity wards - please read and share

[JustineMumsnet]

Evening all,

Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to fill in our survey on Bounty and share your stories - from the initial idea onwards, this really is a campaign that has been prompted by your concerns, as posted on Mumsnet.

The survey showed that a very large majority (82%) felt it was unacceptable for Bounty sales reps to be on hospital wards, as well as highlighting a number of other concerns about Bounty reps' selling practices, so we're calling on government to end this kind of direct selling/data collecting on NHS wards. See more here.

It's clear, from the survey results, that, even after Bounty updated its code of conduct (these results only include users who gave birth from May 2012 - the full results containing prior data are here) its practices leave a lot to be desired, and that Mumsnet users feel very strongly that the maternity ward is no place for a hard sell, so we're really hoping that government will listen to us.

Here's how you can help...

Please sign the petition

If you're on Twitter please tweet your support for the campaign with the hashtag #bountymutiny and the following link:

tiny.mn/1bsnpNw

If you're on Facebook then please like campaign page our campaign page (there's a FB link to click at the top on the left).

If you're on Google+, well, you'll know what to do.

We'll, of course, keep you posted here about the campaign and any developments. Thanks to everyone for their stories, honesty and input. Here's hoping we can make a difference!

did anyone see the comment on the telegraph that bounty is a thriving forum competing with MN?

Thing is mothers never have been nor never will be a completely homogeneous group. Just like women. And just like people. There's a lot of diversity. So, we don't all have the same opinion.

And, it's so much simpler for a woman and new mother to comment/complain on her way off the ward with her new baby - oh, by the way I didn't get my Bounty pack. And the MW says - oh, I'll just find the Bounty lady if you wait a mo, or even, "Oh sorry, here you are"

It's much more time consuming and stressful to complain about a pressurising, annoying, or insensitive experience with Bounty.
And even less likely that you're going to find the time (as you leave with new baby) to say you disagree with the commercial pressures on the post-natal wards and the bed to bed selling and acquisition of personal data for commercial purposes, and actually feel the whole atmosphere should be a lot more woman centred and you'd have liked more opportunity to talk about your birth experience and more support with breastfeeding and the early hours with a newborn - and a wider bed ! And some decent curtains to block out the light and give you a chance of some sleep.

No, you probably won't launch into all this - But just say thank-you and take your precious bundle home - to recover from it all in peace !

So, my point is, complaints about not seeing Bounty are very easy to make and very easily resolved - and just come down to a few folks not wanting to miss out on some passing "freebies"
Potential - often unspoken in hospital - complaints about the policy and practice of Bounty reps are a little more complex, but definitely as strongly felt.

Reply from my MP regarding signing the early day motion:

As a Parliamentary Private Secretary, I am considered to be part of the Government (though unpaid) and, by convention, am not able to sign Early Day Motions which call for action by the UK Government, so am unable to sign the EDM, although I have every sympathy with your views

My photographer emailed me today to say he will be showing his wife the mutiny pages and they'll be saying no to Bounty when when she has their first baby soon

I complained using the link.
Just received a reply from bounty.
Corporate PR speak. But interesting what the reps are supposed to do.
They did apologise.

Then another email to say that particular rep has been fired (lied about me needing the pack to claim child benefit).

However-
I still fundamentally disagree with sales people targeting hospital patients. But nice to get a reply & know their stats have 1 more complaint in their books.

I'm just looking in my Bounty pack that I got this year. It's the first one that you get at your booking appointment. There is the form to register with Bounty in it but looking at it carefully, there is no option to say that you don't give permission to sell your details. All that is provided is a range of contact details where you can change your preferences. Is that legal? I was under the impression that you had to have tick boxes

I asked DH about what you said (his job means so has to know about the legalities of mailing lists and knows a fair bit about data protection). He said that if they are doing that they need to have a tick box to say you agree, if they are selling your details on. He suggested you send a copy of the form to the ICO as he thinks if what you say is true it is illegal.

He also said (as he took a loud intake of breathe in horror) that according to the data protection act, you have to explicitly state what you are collecting data for and you are not allowed to then use it for other purposes.

Eg: They can't say you are giving your details for a parenting club and then sell it on your details. Only they (Bounty) are allowed to contact you from the information you have given which could include sending stuff on behalf of third parties. Third parties allowed to contact you directly without your permission.

Oh and if anyone has missed the latest MN update (its linked on twitter).
Here is a lovely letter from Adam Holloway MP

He then said...

You can do a "Subject Access Request" to businesses. They have to provide you with all the information they hold on you (including who they sent your details on you). They can charge £10 at most for this request. They have to reply within 40 days. It has to be sent to the Compliance Manager who should be publicly noted. Only looky whats this linky here Sarah Wragg

You would need to send recorded delivery to prove they had received your request.

If they don't respond you would then contact the ICO as non compliance is a breach of the data protection act.

He also said that because of the nature of the business they are doing, and how they are collecting data, all their reps should be signed off as having data protection training as part of their compliance. Its something his business has had to legally do.

Full info from the ICO about this here

Bounty itself will be exempt from FOI which only covers private sector, but to the extent they are providing health sercices, they are covered by the Environmental Info Regs which have fewer get-out clauses than FOI.
So if they argue they are providing useful health info for the NHS...

Argh - FOI is public sector not private...

You could ask the NHS whether they had checked whether Bounty and any staff operating on its premises had, had Data Protection training I guess. The chances are they would say they didn't know. Which if that is the case, you then have the open goal of why don't you know if you have given authorisation for these people to operate on your premises as part of their tender. Could in all in theory be done in a single FOI request if you really wanted.

Plus I hope they are all crb checked.

And what about NHS hygiene rules?
I didn't see the bounty lady use alcohol gel between the other 2 women on my post natal ward.
Yuk!

The whole thing gives me the hebie geebies.

Don't think you are letting the side down cos you need a break from it. I confess I haven't been on twitter tonight, but I know the type of stuff you mean. Its really not worth getting involved in that type of stuff. It will blow over. Just focus on what you have been doing thats about promoting stuff. In all honesty, its wasted trying to argue with people who have already made up their minds. Focus on the people who are open to debate or interested in the story.

Don't be daft Suffolk you look after yourself

Redbush- yes. It's the NHS trusts chief execs we need to get the ear of.
Via our MPs is a good route.
Plus PALS complaints. I am guessing there are regular meetings where they look at the pals complaints stats.
So if we all send in a pals complaint (as well as to bounty) then it's going to hit the NHS management radar.

Either they will listen to us and agree having sales people waiting like vultures for drugged up & exhausted patients to hit the post natal beds is a bad thing.

Or stanna stairlifts will be seen on an orthopaedic ward near you soon

Just catching up on whats going on. Sigh.

Just ignore the immature attention seeking. I think its clear whats going on and how some are really trying to bully others to stop this campaign and denying their part in how events have kicked off.

Its very sad, but not unexpected. I pmed someone last weekend saying I fully expected stuff like that to materialise come monday as Poole ended its Bounty contract.

Sadly I wasn't to be disappointed. I know how things work on issues like this most unfortunately. What happens is someone want you to shut up and because they can't debate the point effectively they do other stuff to try and achieve that. Really I wish it wasn't like this, but nevermind. 'Tis the interwebs for you. Anyone with half a brain cell knows whats going on, regardless of whether you support or don't support this campaign. The childishness is appalling and distracts from real issues (either this, or beyond the remit of the campaign and into other maternity issues). It doesn't make anyone involved in it look good.

Keep your chin up and look after yourself. Take a break as long as you need, and seriously don't let it get to you. You've been admirable in keeping your calm and that just winds some people even more. You are a credit to yourself.

Best to just not get involved in the games and personal attacks in the first place if you can help it. Don't take the bait. Easier said than done though.

There is a very good reason I'm inadept with twitter. Because I rarely use it, because it attracts far too many people who can't cope with more than 140 characters and use far too many 4 letter words or the like. Its great for reading and find out stuff from other news sources, but I don't care for it beyond that much. And its situations like this that make me feel its with good reason.

Hope you are Ok.

Woah this needs to be read

Data Protection Registration for Bounty

Thats quite sobering to see in black and white what they are interested in collecting data about.

Even though it's 10 years ago, I well remember the Bounty Rep standing in the doorway, as I lay totally shocked and ill with my baby only just out of the NICU! They could at least wait until you're fit to go home!!

Blimmin' heck Suffolk - hope you're OK