How about a MN campaign to get schools to stop using BMI to determine health/obesity ?

[Tee2072]

All the so called experts more or less agree that BMI proves nothing about the health or obesity level of anyone, never mind children.

So what can we do to get schools to stop using it to judge our children?

Schools don't use it - the school nursing service does afaik. In the absence of anything better it's all they have to identify children at risk of lifelong obesity. Better than nothing.

No, its not better than nothing. Its worse than nothing as it scares mums and dads into thinking their children are fat, when they are not.

There are lots of ways to determine a child is overweight other than BMI. Percentage body fat, for example, is a much better tool than BMI.

Could you clarify?

What are you advocating for monitoring in schools? Or do you want to see an end to school-based intervention?

As TheJollyPirate said, schools don't use it.

And parents can decline having their children weighed and measured.

I would object to having my DCs' percentage body fat meausred. They are muscly, but meausred for body fat, they would probably be at risk of death.

No, body fat measures just that, body fat. Not muscle. BMI doesn't take into account body shape, muscle or anything but height and weight ratio.

And if the schools don't use it, then why are so many mums on here posting about being worried about getting 'the letter' telling them their children are obese?

My son is only 15 months, so not in school yet, BTW.

I am just on a one woman campaign to get rid of BMI for everyone.

And onimolap yes, I want to see the schools take their noses out of children's weight. And also what they put into their packed lunches (excepting nut free, etc due to allergies).

Let us parents be parents, FFS.

Tee2072 Sun 12-Sep-10 18:31:54

"And if the schools don't use it, then why are so many mums on here posting about being worried about getting 'the letter' telling them their children are obese?"

The letter isn't from the school, it's from the local health authority.

See, that I didn't know lynette, thank you for telling me.

No matter who it is from, though, it is not a good measurement tool.

But Tee unfortunately a lot of parents do not realise their children are overweight/obese.

Was a very interesting programme on r4 recently about his and how because children are generally getting bigger - people don't really see that their own children are too big.

There was a charity/govt organisation (can't remember which) that was running classes all about nutrition/exercise for overweight children and their parents and it worked very well.

Obesity in children is an issue and it does need to be tackled and unfortunately it just can't always be left to the parents to sort it out.

Then I guess what we need is better education for parents and children, without all the 'OMG his BMI is 10000 he's going to die' crap that seems to happen.

And honestly, so what if the parents don't realize? Yes, yes, overweight children become overweight adults with diabetes etc etc etc. So what? What ever happened to survival of the fittest? I myself am a Type II diabetic. Partly due to weight, partly due to genetics. I still wouldn't want the school/health agency/whomever to send my mum a letter telling her I'm fat! Granted, I'm 41...

Anyway, what I really want is for the schools to not be used as an agency for this fallacy to continue.

::dons flame proof suit::

Tee please see these links - they'll tell you a bit about the rationale behind the national child measurement programme:

here

and here

Tee - will you be okay with your taxes being raised to deal with the extra cases of Type II diabetes - because the numbers are rising and also now being seen in children. It's not a case of "so what" and "survival of the fittest" more a case of "the cost of obesity is taking up alot of money and these children will die younger".

Nowt wrong in trying to tackle that. I would agree with you about BMI by the way - it's not the most accurate way but it's the one most people agree on. Perhaps they should introduce other things alongside this to get a more accurate picture but just stop weighing our children who are fatter than they have ever been - no.

Pirate but if the children die younger, I won't have to pay higher taxes for them, will I?

But they will cost the NHS more before they die.

Sheesh.

Darn, you saw through my cunning plan.

I think we are getting off the point here.

Forget about when they are adults. What I want is for BMI to be thrown out, as its inaccurate and misleading, and for a new way to determine that a child is obese to be found. I don't know what the new way is. But I am not a doctor of any sort.

I'm just a parent with a 15 month old on the 90th percentile for height and weight worried about what will happen if one of those slip. The kid doesn't have any fat on him, he's just very tall and, therefore, heavy.

But I would bet, if BMI could be used for his age, he'd be considered obese. And he's not.

And that's my point.

Well, then you misunderstand how BMI works. If he's on the same centile for weight and height, he'd have a BMI which was completely normal.

Why would he be considered obese is he's on the 90th centile for both? Both height and weight are measured to calculate the child's BMI. If you dont want to be informed, then withdraw him from being weighed and measured when you get the letter asking if you want to withdraw him.

I think that unless there is a financially viable alternative, that the current system should remain in place. In my limited experience, the results do give parents information that they dont work out for themselves.

When DS's class had their results in the post last year 2 parents of his children in his class spoke to me about them. One mum said she was shocked to find out that her son, who at 5 has breasts and thighs which rub together, was obese. Another said she was relieved that her DD was a nnormal weight and that she would stop hassling her about eating too much, again her DD is 5 .

Some parent do need telling though and it's a good a measure as any to start that conversation. My neighbour's 8yo daughter is huge - her mum worries that she doesn't eat enough!

Why do you think BMI is inaccurate and misleading? AFAIK that only applies where adults are very muscular i.e their weight is high for their height, but they aren't "fat". Can't see that being a problem for children.

As your son is tall and heavy for his age, his BMI would be normal.

You know what? Never mind.

Sorry I brought it up.

I think it would be good if the school health service could make an assessment of the children looking also at their records from birth (I don't think they do this at present - of if they do they don't make it clear). My friend had a letter telling her daughter was underweight. If you looked at he weight and height from birth she was in exactly the same proportions when they measured her as she has always been. If you look at her mother she is exactly the same physical shape. The letter upset her a good deal and served no useful purpose - the child's weight wasn't new information iyswim.

I see A LOT of obese children rolling next to their shapeless parents. I see them stuffing their children with junk food siting in the parks, riding a bus etc ( I can imagine what is on their plates at home). Lazy overweight people who don't want to take responsibility. These kind of parents should get letters stating their children are obese in red ink.

Tee - tall and heavy is one thing. There are plenty of kids that are bigger then their peers, so what? Chubby 15 mnths baby is normal while rolls of unhealthy fat on 8 y.o. is not. Even the chubbiest toddlers by the age of 5-6 get much slimmer as their body grow vertically at high speed. When they grow horizontally is not good.
I can see without BMI when child is obese. BMI is just a polite way to say to parents about child obesity.

Tee - as a HV can I say your son sounds lovely and not a bit overweight . BMI deffo NOT accurate at this stage and should not be used.