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Multiple births

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Original poster

Zygosity testing - Identical or non-identical?

62 replies

twinsnikki · 26/02/2007 03:42

Hiya everyone,

I just wanted to post something that I thought may be of interest to other multiple mothers.

I have two twin girls. They both had their own plancentas and sacks. I was told that they were fraternal by the medical professional. I am a member of TAMBA, and they ran an article in their magazine about some fraternal twins actually being identical.

The article suggested that it is interesting and also useful to have your twins tested, as in later life, they want to know how 'close' they are and gave details of the multiple birth association as a place of contact.

We contacted them and it was a simple dna marker test, taken by 10 swabs per child.

The results were staggering! Our children were actually 100% Monozygotic (identical).

They provided a breakdown of the dna markers on a certificate, which will we keep for the girls when they are older.

The impact of this information is immense.

One of our girls had an illness and we were referred to hospital. When they asked are the girls identical and we replied yes, they said they would need to automatically check the second twin. The doctor informed us, had they been non-identical they would have only checked one....

It has turned out to be very useful.

Anyone out there had their multiples tested and the outcome was unexpected?

Nic

OP posts:
frumpygrumpy · 26/02/2007 17:39

Wow, interesting stuff! A bit of this was covered on the programme on Ch4 last week and was astounding.

I'm not sure I'd have my b/g twins tested though - apart from the obvious they are completely different in every way Do your girls have similar temperaments? Similar tastes in food? Physically similar? etc......

largeginandtonic · 26/02/2007 18:43

Wow indeed, how amazing! I have id boy twins but they couldnt tell when they were born if they were id or not as they looked like they had seperate placentas. I snt off for the DNA swab test and it came back they were 99.9% id. They are very similar and people do get them mixed up but as babies (born at 29 weeks) we would never have known. Amazing stuff!!

Hope your girls are ok

Overrun · 26/02/2007 19:31

Thats fascinating. My non identical boys, had their own sacs, own placentas, and look different. Do your girls look very similar?

throckenholt · 26/02/2007 19:34

I have heard a lot of people on twinsclub talk about getting this test done and most of the came back as id. I am guessing only those who think they may be id bother to pay to get the test done. I mean if you have two boys - one with blond curly hair and blue eyes, the other with brown hair and green eyes - you know they are not id.

I think a lot of "fraternal" twins are actually id that split early and had their own placentas. If they have similar colouring and people confuse them on a regular basis then they are likely to be id.

Overrun · 26/02/2007 19:36

Throkenholt, loads of people confuse mine, but they really don't look similar, apart from both being blond with blue eyes. It is fascinating though, I have heard that they have their own placenta if they split early enough too

zephyrcat · 26/02/2007 20:41

I'm confused now!! I had a scan at 5 weeks and was told there were 2 sacs (only one yolk so still need to find out if both have developed) So from looking up info, I was certain that meant that they would be non-id. Is that not correct then?

Overrun · 27/02/2007 21:56

If the egg splits in the first few days, then id dts can still have their own sacs and placentas

throckenholt · 28/02/2007 09:20

2 eggs have 2 placentas - but they can fuse which can make them look like id with one placenta.

1 eggs - splits in first few days - 2 placentas (can later fuse as above !)

  • splits a bit later - one placenta two amniotic sacs
  • splits a bit later - one placenta one amniotic sac
  • splits very late (after 8 days I think) conjoined twins (siamese).

so if you have same sex twins the only way you can be sure they are non-id is if they look very different - eg different hair and eye colour.

Original poster
twinsnikki · 02/03/2007 07:24

Hiya All,

I pleased you all found this interesting

My girls have the same colouring, eyes, hair, features...etc. They are the same height but the weight has always been around one being half a pound heavier.

Personalities are chalk and cheese, one very outgoing and one very shy.

It was interesting to me being as first time mother of twins, that being classified as the twins being non-idents to finding out the opposite, made me wonder just how much is really known about twins and their development.

If anyone is interested information for the tests can be obtained from the Multiple Birth Foundation.

Nik

OP posts:
theslownorris · 02/03/2007 07:48

Thanks for this. I'm fed up with people automatically assuming my twins are id. I've decided to send off and find out for definite .

Original poster
twinsnikki · 02/03/2007 08:16

Hello Zephyrcat

I would wait until the twins are born, really before being concerned.

If when they are born they are the same sex and very similiar, then I would maybe consider the test, which is not expensive.

If they arrive and there are definate differences, ie. different eye colour, hair colour etc, then it is not so much of an issue to confirm, one way or the other.

The initial questions you would need to ask yourself are probably the following:

  • Are they the same sex
  • Do they have the same hair colour
  • Do they have the same eye colour
  • Did they teeth at roughly the same time
  • Are they roughly the same height
  • Do their body weights tally

These are some of the intial questions I was asked to consider prior to have the test completed.

If your answers are yes, to the above, then it would be worth considering. Anyhow, the tests apart from the identity issue, will give you an idea of how close genetically your children are, I found that really fasinating information.

The medical profession, advice you check their earlobes and feet, as in idents these are suppose to be the same....

It's personal choice I suppose .

I hope this helps with any confusion.

Nik

OP posts:
Original poster
twinsnikki · 02/03/2007 08:18

Hiya theslownorris,

Let me know how you get on, would be interested

Nik

OP posts:
zephyrcat · 02/03/2007 19:48

Hiya twinsnikki

I'm not overly concerned about them being id or non, I just thought that there were set rules - ie if there are 2 sacs they are from two eggs which makes them non-id. I should know by now that Mother Nature is not that straightforward!!!

It will be interesting to see how these turn out and how genetically close they are - If we look at pictures of our 3 when they were babies, even we mix them up because there is hardly any differences at all between them, physically. Exact eye colour, exact hair colour, exact teething times etc etc.

It's all really fascinating!!

Leoladyofleisure · 03/03/2007 10:25

Just to add quickly to this....

We were told by our first doctor that our boys are definitely ID. The second doctor wouldn't confirm it as she said there could have been 2 placentas that merged together and she would have needed to see the early scans. When they were born the doctor that delivered them said she had no doubt that it was one placenta and not 2 merged. I asked about zygosity testing and she sent the paed to talk to me about it.

He asked in a very condescending, accusing, critical manner 'Why do you want to know if they are ID?' (why do doctors always manage to make me feel like a naughty child ). I thought it would be obvious - apart from interest, the fact that even during the pregnancy I was asked endless times and it would be easier just to say yes or no and that maybe the twins would like to know themselves it is also something that may be medically useful in the future. Anyway he could only suggest testing by taking buckets of blood and sending it to a genetics lab!

When I get around to it I will contact the MBF.

frumpygrumpy · 03/03/2007 12:18

Leo, I can't believe that doctor. Is it really his business why you want to know something about your own children? His job is to give you the information you need to make your decision. Hope you're well x.

cricket · 04/03/2007 03:43

I have been told many times during my pregnancy that that my twins will definitely NOT be identical because of the presence of 2 sacs and 2 placentas. From talking to people like Leo and reading up a bit on the subject, it turns out that it is still possible for them to be id - although rarer - although hardly anyone in the medical profession seems to know this!

For the first time last Thurs I saw a doctor who acknowledged this fact! the only one in 9 months!

I will be getting them tested if I am in any doubt once they are born!

Original poster
twinsnikki · 04/03/2007 14:26

Hiya all,

All I can say regarding some of the doctors comments is it depends on how many they have dealt with twins. Over my time of researching and finding information about this subject, it appears some doctors only acknowledge id twins if they share a placenta.

I am proof of the very rare event of two sacs and two placentas, with id twins.

I was initially informed about the process from a forum with TAMBA, Twins and Multiple Birth Association, who recognises that two sacs, two placentas does not always mean fraternal.

The tests involve no blood whatsoever. In my humble experience, I find if you ask some doctors (who are suppose to be specialists in their fields) a question, that they have no information about, to save further questions, they simply try to put you off..

There is no pain at all. Infact our twins giggled outrageously when being swabbed because it tickled!

If they are the same sex, same colouring, same blood group, roughly even weight, for interest purposes, it may be worth considering.

I get so cross at some doctors, I really do .

Let me know how you all get on if you decide to follow the process.

Nik
x

OP posts:
Twinmummyx2 · 23/03/2007 16:15

Hi!

When my first set of twins were conceived i was told during the scans they were non-id....when they were born i was told they were identical as there was 1 placenta, very thin membranes between the sacs and had had twin to twin syndrome as there was a pound weight difference and Luke was very skinny and pale...

...i wasn't convinced as to me they looked totally different..but they said when the weight differnce caught up they would look alike.....i insisted they sent the placenta away for testing (we live off mainland England) and it came back non-id like i thought...the placentas had fused together..and Luke is still skinny and pale compared to Jake to this day (one like me/one like Daddy) so doctors get it wrong sometimes too...

my 2nd set of twins were conceived at different times..2 weeks apart...we knew from the first dating scan from the huge size difference...Cerys was always that bit smaller throughout and was born with lots of vernix on her whilst Kyran didn't have any left.

Twins are fascinating don't you think!

me.x

jellysmummy · 23/03/2007 16:22

My mum was an identical twin, her mother had no idea she was carrying twins until the placenta came out and was my aunt!
They were possitively freaky - bought identical dress in different branches of same department store and wore it on the same day when we all met up. They also had children at similar times, my cousin is 23 days older than me, my sister is a week younger than my next cousin who was born the day before my oldest brother's birthday, just to add to the freakiness my youngest cousin was born the week before my brother's 12th birthday, but was due on his birthday. When my mother died my aunt did a reading at the funeral and we had to add in the mass sheet that she was the identical twin otherwise who knows what might have happened!

quadrophenia · 23/03/2007 16:27

ohh how interesting, I gave birth to identical twins, despite there being two different placentas and sacs. I've never really felt the need to clarify though, to look at they can't be told apart, they weigh exactly the same, have the same hands feet everything. Was told they were conceived a week apart, which clearly they weren't they are as idnetical as they come!! I wouldn't get them tested though as i knwo they are identical anyway!!

SlightlyMadSpringBunny · 23/03/2007 16:36

Zeph - they may actually be able to tell you more in utero at your next scan.

From my first scan (12w) they could see 2 sacs and 1 placenta, which is actually one of hte least common combinations apparently. They wanted to know whether they were id or not cos it affected how frequently I should have subsequent scans, so I had to have an internal scan where they measured the thickness of the membrane between the sacs. If it is 2 fused placentas there will be 2 full layers of membrane (1 from each sac). If it is genuinely 1 placenta the membrane is only a single layer thick, therefore narrower. I had the latter, meaning fortnightly scans...

How much are the tests BTW? When we looked into it cos the NHS cocked up the placenta analysis (got lot!!!) it was going to cost £250. TBH I don't think it is worth paying this. It was pretty obvious by the time they are 2 that they are identical, and if they every had the medical need described in hte OP I would get them tested (for zygosity or medical need) then and get teh NHS to foot the bill.

HTH

Original poster
twinsnikki · 27/03/2007 07:55

Hiya Everybody - £250 that's outrageous!

The test is carried out at Kings College Hospital in Dulwich.

They send you the pack and you do this at home, all it involves is swabbing your childrens cheeks for cells.

The cost overall is £80.

You can obtain details from the multiple birth society. You need to contact them first and then they send you the form. You send your cheque and form, directly to the hospital.

The hospital then send you the pack with all the information.

I wouldn't have paid that amount of cash..

As I have mentioned before, it is really preference for parents to have this done, but for me it was worth every penny, because when one got sick, it made a big difference to how they handed my DD's.

TwinMummy, two sets, Arhh how lovely, bet yours is a busy household.

Nic
x

OP posts:
Original poster
twinsnikki · 27/03/2007 07:59

www.multiplebirths.org.uk

E-mail: [email protected]

Telephone: 0208 383 3519

If anyone requires the information.

Nic
x

OP posts:
Original poster
twinsnikki · 27/03/2007 08:04

Hiya All,

Knowing we are keen readers, and fanscinated by our multiples, here is the information regarding Zygosity tests and why you may want them done...

www.multiplebirths.org.uk/identical.asp

Happy reading

Nic
x

OP posts:
charleymouse · 17/04/2007 12:55

Can I ask if any of you know whether the placenta analysis will give us enough information for determining whether Ben and George are identical. As some of you may know Ben died 9 hours after birth and I was asked by the sonographer if I thought they were identical as they looked so alike.

All the way through this pregnancy I was told they were not identical as they had two sacks and two placentas. I have been told the placenta analysis will take 4 weeks and Ben is due to be buried next week so not sure if I should try the DNA route. Do you think it is important for Georges benefit to find out if they were identical or not? I'm not sure how to proceed so any advice would be gratefully received.
Cheers CM