Zygosity testing - Identical or non-identical?

[twinsnikki]

Hiya everyone,

I just wanted to post something that I thought may be of interest to other multiple mothers.

I have two twin girls. They both had their own plancentas and sacks. I was told that they were fraternal by the medical professional. I am a member of TAMBA, and they ran an article in their magazine about some fraternal twins actually being identical.

The article suggested that it is interesting and also useful to have your twins tested, as in later life, they want to know how 'close' they are and gave details of the multiple birth association as a place of contact.

We contacted them and it was a simple dna marker test, taken by 10 swabs per child.

The results were staggering! Our children were actually 100% Monozygotic (identical).

They provided a breakdown of the dna markers on a certificate, which will we keep for the girls when they are older.

The impact of this information is immense.

One of our girls had an illness and we were referred to hospital. When they asked are the girls identical and we replied yes, they said they would need to automatically check the second twin. The doctor informed us, had they been non-identical they would have only checked one....

It has turned out to be very useful.

Anyone out there had their multiples tested and the outcome was unexpected?

Nic

Hi Charleymouse - I'm not sure for definite how I'd feel if I lost one of my DTs, but I think I'd want to know if they were identical or not, and I think I'd want to be able to answer the question if my other boy wanted to know later.

I don't know if placenta analysis will give you that information or not, but when I was pregnant with my boys I looked at lots of info about zygosity and I found that di-chorionic and di-amniotic twins can be identical - in that situation the egg will have split within the first 3 days and made two implantations in different parts of the uterus, which is where you get two sacks and two placentas. I also read somewhere that 'they' can check cord blood and see if the blood factors are the same - if they're 95% (or higher) the same then the twins are more than likely to be identical.

If you contact the Multiple Birth Foundation they may be able to give you some indication. They've got a website (you probably know that already) which has phone numbers on it. They also have counselling things to help greiving twin parents. Not sure if that's useful to you. Hate to presume as I can't begin to imagine what losing Ben is like.

((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))) Doris

sorry - grieving.

Hello Charleymouse,

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Massive Hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I can't imagine what you must be going through. Bless you.

I agree, the multiple birth foundation may be able to advise.

My link will take you to their main site.

Nic
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Thanks Devondoris and twinsnikki
I contacted the MBF and they were very helpful. They couriered a test kit direct to the funeral directors so I could do it before it the burial. I should get the results in a couple of weeks, they have said it might not work as it is not usual to do it on a baby that has been dead for a while. I also sent them a hair clipping as well as the swabs to try and help.
Many thanks for your advice and support.
Cheers CM

This is something I've thought about doing for years with the boys. They do look very alike, similar height, same weight, same hair, same eyes, even the same shape ears. They are starting to look a little different as they get older, although the majority of people still get them confused. I'll do it when I've a spare £80.

CM, my condolences to you and your family. xxxx

charleymouse

Let us know of your outcome. I am pleased for you that they were able to perform this for you.

Couldn't have been easy, and hopefully, you will have the answer you would like.

Thinking of you from the bottom of my heart.

Best wishes
Nic
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Thanks menageriekeeper and twinsnikki, whilst I was posting the last message the results must have been typed up as we got them in the post yesterday. The MBF have been brilliant and even rang up to chat through the results with me and answer any questions I had.
The boys are identical. I had always been told they were not identical as they had two sacks and two placentas so thank you for the advice about getting them tested. If we had not done this we would never have known.
If possible this makes me feel the loss of Benjamin even more. I will have a constant reminder of what he would have looked like, this makes me feel worse and better all at the same time.
I am now concerned that George is going to be ok and whether there is any risk to him as they are from the same stock as it were.
Thank you for all your help.
Cheers CM

Hi charleymouse, I've been following your story along the way and just wanted to say I've been thinking of you. We had complications with our twins and nearly lost one of our girls on day 2. Looking back it was such a strange scary time - coupled with the fact you are so hormonal which doesn't help put a rational slant on things.

I'm so pleased you found out the boys were ID, otherwise it's something you would always have wondered. I can only imagine what you're going through but do try and stay strong for George, focusing your energy on him will help you stay positive and move forward. x

Hello Charleymouse,

Reading you mail, was like taking a bittersweet pill. I was so happy that you got the result, and it just goes to prove yet again that the medical fraternity are not as wise as they appear.

The bitter part was how it affected you. It is true that you will look at George and see Benjamin, but, in time, hopefully, the pain will pass and you will take comfort in that fact.

Perhaps this test has to be included in part of your greiving process, you will never forget Benjamin, but as the years pass, the pain will get less. That old saying 'time is a great healer' is very true, but so distant from you now, as your loss is so new.

If there is ever a positive from this (in my humble opinion), it will be for George. You will have answered the many questions he may have in the future....was he like me, did he look like me, you have the proof in your hand.

For a parent, this was possibly the second hardest thing to do. First was the loss of a son and dealing with Benjamin's funeral, but the second having the test done, and collecting the dna. I can't think of a more loving and heart felt thing to do, at a time when your world was/is falling apart. You are stronger than you may believe.

I take my hat off to you. I respect you so much. An amazing thing to do.

It will probably be one of the most cerished things you could ever give George, proof that he had a brother, who was not just a brother, but an indentical twin, a real chance in a million especially from two sacks and two plancentas. The report you have been provided, will probably be the most important peices of paper he will ever own.

Had you not had the test done, you would have still had questions, and would have remained unanswered.

I wish you were here, I would give you the biggest hug I could find..

My heartfelt thoughts are with you all.

Nic
xxxx

Hi twinsnikki, we were told throughout our pregnancy and after the birth that our boys were non - identical, found out 3 months ago after reading info on the multiple births foundation and doing a dna test that they are actually identical 99.9%. i got really annoyed that the medical staff gps midwives etc all told us the wrong information. nothing i can do about, i know, but felt they should know. glad i had the test done cause i feel as a mother i should really know for definate.

Hiya Twinniemummie,

Well another point scored for us twin mums I would say.

It did annoy me that I was misinformed also. It wouldn't have been half as bad if they offered advice about the tests in the hospital, if only to say that the babies may still be indents but you have the option of paying for the test...

It should be added in your pack when you leave the hospital. Then you have the option as a parent.

Makes no difference to how much you love your new babies, but makes a huge difference if they are ill and it is something that could seriously effect both!

Nic
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Anyone else had the test done and found out your twins were actually identical?

Nic
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I hope this thread has been useful to all you mums out there.

nik

Its v interesting reading this. I have 'identical twins' who obviously look different to me. There is a lot of confusion around this issue that identical twins must be exactly the same in every way. Mine are not. They have always been diff weights and height etc. Identical twins have the same features ie same eyes, nose, hands, hair type and colour chin etc but they may be assmebled in slightly diff way. i.e mine have diff head shape (which i think might be due to position in the womb). I have a friend with twin boys, she thinks they are fraternal (by being told that by the medics) (they look identical to me) so i suggested they might be. Seems i could be right that the doctors often do make mistakes. Makes me feel a bit better about it. I think she thought i was crazy when i said it. But i do think that correctly defining zygosity is important for the twins if not for the parent. For medical reasons if nothing else.

has anyone done this recently?

I was led to understand that the placentas of dichorionic twins were sent off for testing as a matter of course to test for monozygotic thingumy (that's a technical term btw).

This was at the RVI in Newcastle. But I never heard any results back so I'm not sure if that's the case.

Following up from Ashten's post, I have a small sneaking suspicion that ours might be identical - when they're both wearing hats in their pram I really can't tell them apart but they have quite different head shapes etc.

Is it 80 quid a pop - or 80 quid in total? IYSWIM?

hiya manfrom

My two were born and tagged as non-identical, not tests were sent off at the time.

They were so identical I questioned this via kings hospital and I was right, their results came back completely matched!

£80 in total. but the fees may have changed but the certificate shows the DNA markers used for confirmation and the chances of it happening.

You get a little report and it tells you, ours was something like 1 in 1 million and something. The egg would have split so early that I had two of everything - plancentas etc.

Nic
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check out twinniemums mail above..

Hi twinsnikki

I was also told by the consultant that my twin girls are non-identical because they had separate sacs & placentas. They do, however, have the same hair colour & eye colour, same height and look very much alike, although 1 is heavier than the other. This was due to Olivia having an intolerance to formula milk so I had to exclusively bf her for a while & supplement Elinor with formula milk. I've read somewhere that identical twins can have different allergies though.

They did teeth at roughly the same time and both of them got their 2 side top teeth (canines?) before the top two front ones so that they looked like little vampires for a while (I've never seen other babies with that). Most people get them confused (even their Daddy!!) and they're now 18 months old. I think I'll probably get the test done to ease my curiosity. Would you be interested in the results?

I'm sure I read somewhere that a third of identical twins have separate sacs & placentas... I find it all very fascinating!!

I think most doctors are aware that identical twins can have separate placentas and sacks. I think the difficulty is lazy obstetricians who call completely separate twins fraternal rather than having to explain aboutt the possibility of them being identical twins. Only the pregnancy and birth is relevant to an obstetrician they don't care about anything beyond that. It is relevant medically if twins share a placenta as the pregnancy will need to be managed differently so I think they just lazily designate all twins with separate placentas as fraternal cos they go on the fraternal twins protocol. I'd go with laziness over stupidity.

hiya BenandSue,

I have different allergies for mine.

One of my girls is intolerant to milk, the other intolerant to nuts. They are under a allergy Proff as Kings - Gideon Lack, and he said in idents this is very common.

Therefore one of mine is always a little heavier. I would be interested to know your outcome

Nic

Hiya curiosity,

Whats interesting due to laziness, is that it is not important or relevant when born, with the exception of managing the pregancy, however, when it comes to sickness it becomes really relevant as identical twins are checked more closely, I have noticed with mine.

Doctors have actually said, if they were fraternal, we wouldn't bother about the second child but with idents we have to take the second child into consideration.

My two have a rare metobolic illness and if it were not for the test at kings, they would not have checked my second child - who does was confirmed with this life threatening condition.

We are so grateful to have had the test done and for the money it has been invaluable!!

Nic
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Keep trying to convince dp to get our twins tested.
They look very similar some days i think they are identical and some days not.
Dp totally convinced they're not and doesn't want to waste the £80

Just to throw a spanner in the works, there's a set of boy/girl twins on TAMBA messageboard at the mo who have been tested and turned out to be identical!!! It's extremely rare apparently, something to do with the original foetus (before it splits) having 3 chromosones. Amazing stuff.

Our two boys are identical, though never had the test. They had 1 placenta and separate sacks. One is far more asthmatic than the other. Both similar build/height etc. Very different head shapes, again due to position in womb I think, but features very similar. Easy to tell them apart bfore they had hair but poeple having much more difficulty now they're 4 1/2.

I have now had the results of the test back and the girls are identical. For me, it is the best Xmas pressie ever to know for sure & to stop people saying, 'well I don't think they're identical'. I'm glad I'll be able to give them a definite answer when they're old enough to ask questions about it.

What you say is very interesting Kathryn. I think there's probably still an awful lot that scientists still don't understand about multiples.