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[ladymuckbeth]

Here we go. More unexpurgated chat about our darling angels, all of whom are gifted and have exceptionally calm and admirably-coping parents.

Manly hug to you Cerubina. As you can imagine I'm already familiar with this scenario. Don't forget though, they might be on top form for Daddy's arrival thus making you feel like shit but it doesn't last. He'll have them for two whole days, he'll see what it's like and hopefully know what a sterling job you are doing managing on your own. And S&R will be themselves, ie. they will be both good and bad, fractious and adorable. It sounds to me as though you're right about what was causing their behaviour with you this weekend - in my experience there is ALWAYS an external cause for the worst bits, especially if they're both acting up at the same time. Tiredness is the worst, and if they were overtired and suffering with teething... well, you have it right there. My girls have been horrendous recently, to the extent that my mother (who has been here for some 6 weeks now) is clearly NOT convinced that my daily excuse of "they're SO tired!" is sufficient explanation for the demon behaviour. It's such a lot to deal with, plus having house guests as you did, over your weekend. Were your parents and friend helpful? I say this because personally I find it more stressful having to deal with things like this with extra eyes watching, even if those people are trying to be helpful. I start to wonder if they are judging my parenting, my coping ability, and don't feel as relaxed as otherwise. Let me know if you fancy meeting up sometime btw.

Things have been frantic here but are calming down somewhat. My mother leaves late this week, finally, and ex moved into his new house at the weekend. Which should have been cause for celebration but as ever was fraught with irritation as he changed arrangements, tried to get out of having the girls on Monday (apparently building flatpacks takes priority) and generally wound me up no end. He is refusing to answer questions about giving his keys back, and is still leaving the door to our spare bedroom locked, which has become a HUGE bone of contention. I DETEST having a locked room in the house, particularly when the girls know that sometimes he is in there. So when we have a bout of him taking the piss staying here, they start to go up and try the door in the mornings, etc. I often have to retrieve a sobbing child crying outside the door, not understanding why it's locked, where Daddy is, etc. He is so bizarrely self-obsessed that he maintains that them crying in this situation is primarily because they miss him so much and nothing whatsoever to do with the locked door. I have to call my lawyer today because despite having almost no money at the moment I am bloody determined to get the locks changed and need to check my rights on this score before going ahead. He is so pig-headed that if there was any way he could do anything about it, if he can he will. And I do not need any more aggravation. I think he thinks we sit here playing tiny violins when he's not here, whereas actually in my head it's more of a mariachi band

Apologies yet again for being so absent on here, I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel now. It's been a bleak few months, but I feel grateful that I DO feel glad that the relationship is over, which is a good thing. And I seem to be looking into retraining to be a shit hot divorce lawyer specialising in dealing with controlling arsehole husbands (did I say that out loud? )... so who knows, maybe it was all meant to be?

Massive hugs to you Cerub. Mine are so awful sometimes (both directly towards me - I don't love you any more, punch in face etc etc... and also just generally uncouth and out of control when we're out and about) that I just despair and am often to be found biting back tears, having to really work hard to hold myself back from smacking them or answering them back in a most unedifying display. I simply cannot imagine how impossible it becomes to deal with the onslaught of that kind of behaviour when you throw into the mix all the emotional fallout you are having to deal with - both the impact on you of your break up, the impact on them, and the impact on you caused by the impact on them (still with me anyone?). Suffice to say I think you have superhuman strength and am full of awe. You will look back on this time and wonder how the hell you got through it, but get through it you will.
I have to say although their behaviour can be appalling, the practicalities of day to day stuff continue to get easier as they get that bit older. HANG IN THERE!

Same to you really Mucky. (Great to see you back btw). Really hope you've had some kind of result re. changing locks etc today. I love the image of you wiping the floor with future errant/dickhead ex husbands in court in a few years' time, it has the makings of a gripping but trashy ITV mini-series possibly starring that hot Irish woman out of mistresses

Keep fighting Mucky - sounds like the Ex is doing this on purpose to generally piss you off, and he won't win. What a knob to lock himself in a room in your house and let his DC's cry outside!
In regards to your mum staying - I bet DC's behaviour will improve once she's gone. Sometimes it all just gets a bit much for little ones, and it just all comes out in bad behaviour and being silly. People think that having people to stay here must be lovely, but it turns out being a nightmare because DD's just get too over-excited and play up constantly . Once you start getting back into your 'normal' routine, they'll start realising what is going on and what they are doing each day etc - I think little things effect little people more than we realise, and I'm sure they're just picking up on your stress over the ex etc.

Completely un-mumsnetty hug Cerub - sounds like shitty shitsville, but of course you'll get through this. You've got this far, and like I said to mucky, children really do play off your behaviour. As soon as one gets slightly anxious or stressed over something, 9 times out of 10, DC will play up because in a way it makes them anxious and they don't really know what to do or what to think. Don't fret over the car incident - it happens, you're a parent. Taking yourself away from the situation is 10000X times better than trying to fight with a 2YO and get cross about everything.
Like mucky said - I'm sure they'll delight him with their behaviour too, so I wouldn't worry about that!
I can also pretty much guarantee that they will be screaming and slapping at him too, but asking for you! It's the classic thing that annoys us all the most - you do everything for them, and they want the other parent - but for no other reason than that they haven't seen them for a while. In the same way that if we spent all week with 1 friend, and then saw another we'd be wanting to see them. So please don't let that get to you Cerub

Here here. Also Cerub I had this exact moan to my mother the other day re. the girls always asking for exH and she said yes, but you're never there to see when they do the same thing asking for YOU, are you? I do know that they are always overjoyed to see me when they come back, even tripping over themselves at the doorstep to give me some bluebells they'd picked for me on the way home yesterday... :)

P.s mucky we definitely do need to hear all about this lawyer too... for legal reasons, of course!

I think mucky is saying she's going to do legal training to become a shit hot lawyer Kate rather than having pulled one!

Thanks everyone for your reassurance and words of support, which are very much appreciated. It is interesting that you think I'm strong, because I'm learning how weak I actually am (or if not weak, fragile). The first couple of months seem to have been lived on adrenaline or auto pilot or something, just to get through the shock of it all. Since my holiday I'm definitely in a loss/depression/anger phase and being floored by the various feelings so much more than I have been so far. This is what makes it hard to keep plodding along even on a good day, and when you have contrary and difficult toddlers to wrestle on every damn task during a bad day, I am really struggling to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm sure it's there somewhere, but it's a pinprick at the moment.

Yes, mucky I agree that house guests don't always help as much as you think in advance and you do feel as though your parenting style is up for inspection. After the weekend from hell I texted my mum and she replied that S will need "some firm handling...he can be quite feisty". I don't know if I'm being over-sensitive, but that reads like a comment that I am currently giving way to him too much. I don't really need people critiquing my parenting when I feel it's enough of an achievement that they are clean, fed and alive at the end of every day for now.

The children are now back and Ex is heading off to Spain with his OW for a few days, what fun. Hope it pisses down. He seems quite cowed every time he sees me recently but he doesn't give the impression that they play up for him all that much. However he rarely has them to himself and generally opts to take them to his mum's so he very much gets the childcare-lite version of events.

Another weekend is hoving into view and I'm dreading it! Because he's away I'll have them from Friday until Sunday non-stop. At least I have the car, so I can actually leave the parish...but it is saddening that I sit here on a Wednesday dreading the weekend that will bring me time with my own children.

Cerub I can honestly say I often feel like that about weekends even when DH is around

Not weak at all, fragile is a much better word. I think if you are generally a fairly robust person, you think you can/should handle these kind of crises well, even when everyone tells you it's serious and hard to cope with. I remember always hearing that divorce, death, moving house... were all these unbelievably stressful events. Well, put it this way - after moving/buying a house, or moving country - I thought... "pah, it wasn't that bad". Divorce on the other hand... a very different beast. It deserves its bad reputation!

I don't blame you for wishing the rain gods to be less than kind for your H's trip away with the OW, Cerub. In the circumstances I'd be thinking more plague of locusts...

I hear you re. the weekend. I think the best way I find to cope is to plan little 'things' for them for part of the day, then plan times at home for chilling out/recovering. Don't aim to do too much, but get out for sufficient time that you're not feeling hemmed in. I don't know when H is having the girls (I think it's Sunday) but if you want to meet up and do something low-key with the children I'm happy to do that. Have you been to the Horniman yet?

And yes Kate - talking about retraining to possibly become a legal executive lawyer. Although I do get a bit swoony around barristers...

Oooh mucky I'm so sorry! I just read that last bit of your previous message so completely wrong

So much sense being spoken! Just nodding along in agreement. Agree that with two parents we still get the 'I want daddy' as soon as he's not there / someone is in trouble. That hurts, but probably easier not to take it personally than if you're doing all the hard graft on your own for the majority of the time.

Good to see you posting LAdyM! I hope you are heading swiftly towards that light, and an unlocked spare room what an eejit. Go you with your lawyer retraining! How cool would that be!?!

I don't want to continually post me me me contributions to this thread, but had a horrible experience yesterday that I want to share but I hope you will not judge me too harshly.

I was staying with a friend and we took our children to the playground near her house, which is in a lovely quiet village in the countryside. When we decided to head home, my two were trotting along ahead as we crossed the playing field towards the lane, me pushing the buggy.

In an absolute trice, R motored ahead of us towards the road and ignored my shouts for her to stop which very quickly became frantic and vocal cord-shredding because I could hear (but couldn't see) a car coming along the road. I reached the edge of the field just as she ran about a foot into the road and I just thought she was going to be struck by the car. The car did avoid her, thank God thank God, and was going very slowly with a clear line of sight, and she had a fright from it. But it could so easily have gone the way my mind predicted, and I was reduced to jelly afterwards.

The really scary thing was that I was frozen to the spot when she reached the road. I knew that if I ran towards her, she would run further into the road and be in more danger. But nonetheless I didn't grab her and try to get her right out of the way. I feel like I made such a stupid mistake (not putting her in the buggy earlier, which was only for the sake of tantrum avoidance) and then maybe didn't keep her safe when she did get into danger. Talk about lucky escapes. I sometimes think my judgement is really off.

What do you do when the sound of you roaring at them to STOP and COME BACK doesn't make them do so, but they think it's a game? The conclusion is I should just keep her/them on reins or in the buggy when we're anywhere out and about, but others don't seem to and you always see toddlers running around in parks and playgrounds so I didn't really think it was so lax as it turned out to be. It shocked me that this tone of voice had so little effect, and it means I am not confident now that she would stop again in a similar situation so I suppose I have to adjust my rules for what I allow her/them to do. I can't stand how close it was to disaster yesterday.

Oh gosh how hideous, poor you

I have had a couple of similar scares in the last couple of months, usually one bolting off up the pavement/ into the road when I am strapping the other one into the car. It is TERRIFYING and like you I haven't found that bellowing/screaming has made any difference at all. I have always had to take off after them at full tilt and luckily (thus far) have always got to them in time. I have actually once smacked R's bottom right there on the pavement in full view of strangers, so desperate was I for her to take on board that she cannot do this.
The only way to guarantee it doesn't happen is reigns/buggy but I feel at 3 that they are a bit old for that... It's a difficult in-between age.

Don't have any advice, but just wanted to share cerubina just in case it makes you feel better ( cause it still makes me feel shit) that similar has happened to me. The kids often run ahead of me along the pavement, and as much as I realise it is a pain to other people to have kids tripping them up I let them do it as I don't have the energy to fight. Anyway they ran up to the car which was about 25m in front of me, and parked at the edge of a road, and I thought they would stop. But d (h and d were running, j was holding my hand) ran round the back of the car heading for his side of the car which unfortunately was the traffic side. I yelled stop at him, dropped J's hand and sprinted round the front of the car. Fortunately he had stopped between the car park behind and our car and not ran onto the road but the oncoming traffic had also slowed ( god knows how they saw him between the parked cars, maybe he did run out onto the road) but I felt SHIT. It just summed up how out of control I felt ( and feel) with the kids.

I feel like i spend so much time yelling at the kids at they actually zone it out, and don't take notice when it is actually serious. [Sad]

But on the bright side, the kids were very well behaved and cute at the children's gala today. Apart from massive meltdown of the swinging chair ride . Everyone else's kids were OK, but mine all hated it, h didn't even wait til itstarted til she demanded off, the other 2 started crying immediately the ride started, but unfornatelt there was no way to stop, so we have a great video of the kids going rough in circles wailing! On for when they are 18!

Also posting a story in solidarity Cerubina. When the girls were about 18m - 2yr we went walking near our flat in Switzerland, up and along a very steep ridge to a restaurant. I had E out of the buggy and she was pushing it, something she really enjoyed doing. Rather typically, H was bickering at me about something and I turned round to answer him - by the time I'd turned back the buggy had turned at a 90 degree angle and was headed off the side of the ridge - almost a cliff edge but luckily it was summer and was thick with bushes. Basically the buggy - and E - both fell off the side, to my absolute horror, and it was only the vegetation about 15ft down that stopped her plummeting to the bottom

That wasn't really an anecdote demonstrating the exact same thing - but just shows how easy it is to come close to a disastrous situation. I was in a state for days about it. So no judgement from me on the subject!

Regarding them just not listening even in dangerous situations - my experience has been that they DO get much better at that as they get older. I have been very reticent to ever go out with them on their scooters for that exact same reason (a whole other subject) but they really do listen to me now and are very well behaved - mostly. Rewind a year however and I had one in particular (E) who would take anyone shouting or calling after her as a prompt to just go faster and faster without turning back. It does get better!

Oh thanks girls, it makes me feel a lot better that we've all had these horror moments! Though what it says for us as a group of responsible parents, goodness knows . It is a valuable lesson to learn and I'll try to look at it like that I suppose, and count my lucky stars that I didn't have to learn the ultimate lesson the first time.

Just took them out to try shoe shopping for S "take 2" - a few weeks ago he wouldn't even let me take his shoes off, let alone have the man measure him. Today he was not prepared to go near the Clarks section in the shop, but was just about ok if the measurer came to him elsewhere (little dictator). Once the ordeal of measuring was over, he was making all these "ooh!" noises at the various choices she brought over so suddenly well on board with the whole thing and quite taken with how they looked on. Came away with cute Stomposaurus ones and Doodles, plus new leather ones for R. I'd breathe a sigh of relief that that's over for a while, but haircuts are looming again, argh!

How's everyone? Hope we all have sunshine today, it's nice in London.

LVB I keep meaning to ask if you've had your big clubbing weekend away yet. How was it?

mucky sorry to not get back to you on meeting up - I was away the last couple of days but would definitely be up for the Horniman or something some other time. We have been once about 6m ago and it was very good.

Well done on the better shoe shopping experience :) Dare I ask, do you try them in a kiddie hairdressers already or would that help if not? The hair cuts at the place I take them to are shockingly bad, but they do get to sit in a racing car watching Peppa Pig and being bribed with lollypops - makes the experience bearable. I once took them to a normal hairdressers and vowed never again - J turned into a complete devil child and I spent ages apologising to the other customers in there who whilst trying to relax into a head massage had to listen to her screaming GEEETTT OFFFFFFF MEEEEE!! over and over again.

Think I'm moving lawyers after a very productive meeting on Friday with someone in town. I am now dreading the change over - as I said to the new guy: I'm very bad at ending relationships, which is why I'm in this mess in the first place . I am not good at facing confrontations...

Yes, I've taken them to Trotters a few times, which is well geared up for kiddie haircuts and then a place near my parents' which was a normal salon but had a special chair etc - they just really hate it and feed off each other until the atmosphere is at fever pitch.

Another hideous afternoon here (still on the me me me vibe). I have no authority with them, clearly, and all the behavioural advice in the world doesn't seem to stop me blowing my top and screeching at them to shut up shut up shut up. I don't seem able to get through a session without a cross word being spoken. I just don't know what to do for the best.

They are overtired and have trouble dropping off (9pm last night for S, and about 90 minutes into their lunchtime nap today before they slept) and then they are such hard work subsequently. Absolute rage (theirs rather than mine) when they got up from their nap today. Arsing around after their bath refusing to lie on the mat, put on their pyjamas etc and an overall sense that I just don't have their respect because any task you care to name is only completed with numerous tweaks and revisions demanded by them and conceded by me for the sake of getting the task done. All their individual negotiations are minute in themselves (eg will have nappy put on on the bed but not on the floor) but add up to this feeling of having the piss taken out of me. And in my catastrophising mind, it's a slippery slope from a 2 year old not having a nappy put on to a 14 year old not going to school or going out at all hours because his mum has no authority.

mucky I would say that with the game change of mediation going out of the window, that's a good enough reason to change solicitors at this point and you can say you'd be very happy to stay with them if mediation was panning out, but since it's not you want to try a fresh approach. More importantly I'd say, X won't scent blood will he, if he sees you changing your representation?

Ugh, Cerub, that is all so draining. I know because I've been there, and have it here now all too regularly. Do you know what my three-nager said today when I told her what we were having for dinner? "Blah blah blah, Mummy. It's all too boring." WTF??!

I don't have much in the way of advice for you other than not to be too hard on yourself because this IS a shit time and you are under loads of pressure. It will improve. I don't think this time in their lives is a good one to judge whether or not you have authority over them - I constantly despair that mine don't listen, talk over me, are SO demanding it's exhausting, etc etc. I spend what seems like half my time asking them to ask me nicely for something, say please or thank you, to wait their turn before speaking, etc. It's exhausting and like having two shouty toddler monologues screeching into my ear all day long. No good with a hangover I can tell you

Re. the lawyer, yes I am tentatively excited about the change. The big issue I had with my existing lawyer is that I could just never get hold of her. She doesn't have an assistant, and I would often wait 2-3 days for a returned phone call, if not longer. She is very good though, and I feel treacherous for changing... The new one is a gay guy (don't know why I feel the need to mention that) who was recommended by a friend. I got the sense that there would be a strong sense of a plan if I moved over, whereas at the moment I've been waiting weeks to get even basic stuff sorted. Just desperate to get on with it now.

Speaking of which H was over with the girls today and it was actually - dare I say it - fairly friendly. I even invited him to stay for dinner with the girls and it was quite civil. If only he'd stop thinking he was some dastardly film-character and being so cloak and dagger about our finances and the divorce, we might actually be able to salvage a vague friendship-for-the-kids-sake.

Was looking up Little Kickers today. Anyone send their kids to this? The girls love playing with footballs and I really think they'd love it. £98 per 12 week course though - so that would be £200 for the two of them. A lot of money I think!!

Poor you Cerub, it sounds terrifying but so easily done. & it's easy to think what you should do when not in the situation, but reality is v different. We were out with friends last week & J ran towards the road (only 30mph, but v busy main route) to drop a little stick in the gutter. A woman at the bust stop screamed cos she thought he was going to run out & that shocked me more than J running. He's not a bolter tho & fairly sensible (well, as 3 yr olds go....) & tho obviously wouldn't bank on it, we didn't really think he was about to run out.

There's definitely a big difference over the last year though. I let our 2 run a little way ahead more recently. Will is more unpredictable (J is a top class dawdler) and likes to run / pretend not to listen so I worry more about him. He knows that if he doesn't listen then he has to hold onto Cora's trike so we have that to rein him in a bit.

I'm starting to let C walk a little more when we're somewhere pretty safe like the safari park. She's a bolter & finds it hilarious to run off. It's funny tho because the boys worry so much about her. I try waving bye bye & 'leaving' her &

( doh, waving finger posted.....)

J tells me off 'mummy, go get her NOW'. He usually seems fairly indifferent to her presence so good to know he does care! Trying to teach them not to run after her to try to bring her back as it just makes her run faster in the opposite direction. Not sure I like explaining child psychology to a pair of 3 yr olds.... I can see them using it against me quite soon

We've just signed the boys up to swimming classes - our first 'activity'. Trying to hold off football. I figure there's possibly little chance of escape given they're boys & football is a religion up here so we'll let it find us. Dp did some windsurfing yesterday & we'd love them to try something like that but we need another 2/3 yrs before they can.

It's been a quiet week on here! Hope everyone's ok. I had a meet up with mucky on Wednesday and it was lovely to catch up in a bit more detail on our respective memberships of the ex-wives' club. LVB no pressure but perhaps when you pass your test it would be nice to have a London get together (divorce is not a pre-condition of attendance)!

I went to visit my folks this weekend and left R with them while I took S to have his hair cut - or not, as it turned out. Absolute screaming fit when we got there, not a thing could be done with him, so we had to leave it. He looks like captain caveman and really needs a cut but what can I do, short of anaesthetising him?!

What's new with all of you? X

Hey Cerub, sorry for my lack of posting!

I am on yet another diet exercise plan as we have 5 weeks until we have a lovely 3 week Italian holiday, I can't wait but really would like to tone up and lose a few pounds!

Marbella was gorgeous, amazing weather and the food great and sooo cheap in comparison to Italy so we'll definitely be back, we didn't entirely follow the clubbing schedule but had a great time regardless

I would love a catch up, maybe we should take opportunity of any child free nights you may have and do dinner and copious amounts of wine it must be nice finally meeting up, I feel like we all know so much about each other after all these years!! of internet chatting

ALL How is the swimming going? I think we're going to do the same this winter as the girls only get to go when we are on holiday, and it's such an important skill

Cerub in regards to tantrums etc my two take the biscuit but I think 2 and a half is where some things do start to improve, they can communicate so much better and imaginative play starts, so far age 1-2 was the worst bit. You are doing a great job x

Agree that 1-2 was worst for tantrums, we have far less of it now (just 3). Hang in there Cerub, what about getting a mobile hairdresser to come to you and roping a friend in to come round for moral support/restraining duties?

Bought a lovely Stella & D bracelet the other week Lavita, can't remember name but thin strap with tiny rainbow or different colour beads, love it.
I too have embarked on diet and exercise, feel quite motivated (although that may be because today is day 1...). It's much needed.

We are just going to Devon in August so nothing exotic but I'd still rather not look like a whale. Off to France with school next week too and have very little which will fit. Then moving two weeks later!!

Tarti thanks you so much, I didn't recognise the surname on the order! Sorry glad you like it, it's called the spirit bracelet

It's gorgeous! Will buy more bits if I ever get a bloody job sorted