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[ladymuckbeth]

Here we go. More unexpurgated chat about our darling angels, all of whom are gifted and have exceptionally calm and admirably-coping parents.

Cerub I'm not really sure what kind of places are around you, but find a wide open space (big field?), take some hot chocolate and off you go!
Either find a long walk that is buggy friendly so that you can stick them in there, (maybe put some music on quietly) and just walk, or a place that you don't have to take buggy so that they can have a super long walk and really tire themselves out.
We have a zoo near us and have an annual pass every year - we probably go more than once a week just for a walk. My girls barely even look at the animals any more, just run along - stop off at the parks and keep going.
The beach is another place that I let mine roam free - they take their scooters and there aren't any roads near so it's all pretty safe.

I think they all go through the stage where they want you to play with them - I find it helps to set something up for them (i.e. get all their cars/puzzles/train track out) play for a minute to start up a game, and then say that you just need to go and get something and that you'll be back in a minute. Leave it a few minutes and then go back and play, then say that you're just going to put some washing on - be a little bit longer. A little bit like CC I guess, leaving it longer each time so that they get used to playing on their own. I often play with mine, and really love it, but at the same time sometimes I need them to play on their own. Is good for their imagination too :)

Sorry they've been poorly again :( Do they often get poorly over winter? Mine have done quite well this year, but touching wood as sods law they will come down with something tomorrow!
Have you tried Minadex with your 2? You can get it from boots etc, and is just a multivitamin that they can take after they've been poorly (to give them appetite etc) or over winter periods to make sure their immune system is still high. My DNephew was always getting ear/chest/throat infections over winter and she swears by it.

Sorry Kate, dp & I often lament our lack of any 'useful' skills despite being supposedly well educated. I know nothing about / of legal stuff. I hope E's consultant can improve things for her - do you see them soon?

Cerub. Hmm. We still have (lots) of time like you describe. It has got easier with time though. Can't really say when because I didn't realise it had until we took the step backwards into the super-clingy phase with c. I'm lucky in that the boys are happy to hold my hand when out - bit too much at times - so walking is generally ok! We also have zoo & safari park annual passes & it's fab to just pop there for a quick lap of safari on a tough day, or a walk round the zoo knowing there's no traffic to worry about. Our museums have activity areas for the little ones too so we can pop there, tho i'd use the bus then. Or just a wander around the supermarket.

Still settling c into nursery. Her turn to be under weather a bit this week so they've had a bit of a time with her. She's not eating while there. she prefers to feed herself but sounds like they keep trying to spoon feed her. Yesterday she was ok til they tried doing activities.... Then she 'flipped out'. So I think they let her sleep lots cos she was hyper last night & didn't really settle til we went to bed. She also had a meltdown when all the other babies had bottles of milk - she's never had a bottle but even at home gets annoyed if she can't be the same as the boys. Certainly knows what she wants! Think they were glad to see the back of our lot yesterday cos j bit w too so they ended up separating them. Tho today I've been told w has moved to the pre-school room permanently cos he's ready. Not sure how I feel about that. I suspect it's cos they need to make room further down the age range...

Hello girls - sorry for being so AWOL. I've not quite known what to say..

SO I've decided not to talk about me, but to talk about everyone else

Cerub - I feel (felt) your pain! It does get better I promise. We too did lots of zoo trips etc about a year ago. I have to say that about 6 months ago, the girls almost overnight got into the magical "imaginative play". Which means give them a couple of props and each other, and they're good to go for half an hour at least. Even now though, I have to own up to having very low standards being pretty crap - I try to play with them for a bit and then plug them into the TV when I want to get something done. Even now, I don't think it's "fair" for me to expect not to be disturbed if they are playing and not want me to be involved at all. Our daily routine (I know we're a year ahead so may not be relevant!) is to go out in the morning/lunch time and then come back at about 3pm and let them watch a Winnie the Pooh /etc for an hour - that is the only chance I get to get things done. Thinking about it - S&R are still having a lunchtime nap? - I do remember this being particularly hard because although - yes, you get that break - you feel as though your mornings and afternoons are 'tight' and no sooner do they start if you want to get out of the house, than it's game over because they start to get grumpy/tired.

tarti - how did your test weekend go?? We demand a full breakdown!

Kate - lovely to hear from you. And have I read correctly on other threads about you TTC!? You are an inspiration.

Hello to everyone else. To everyone who has messaged me on FB or here, thank you so much. I really appreciate it, and wish I were on better form...

Ha! You caught me out there mucky! We are not officially 'trying to conceive' - but I have come off the pill, so if something is meant to happen then it will.
To be quite honest, I don't have the time to TTC - I cannot be bothered with having sex on the right days, dreading my period coming, taking ovulation tests etc etc etc. I know that with DD1 we tried for ages and stressed out about it all etc, then went on holiday for 2/3 weeks and promised to not think about it and just relax - low and behold, I was pregnant! Haven't really told many people as I also cannot be bothered with the 'are you pregnant yet?' comments! Sorry, I'm so boring!

FWIW, I'm with mucky on the daytime routine - we either do mornings and lunch out (whether is out or just picnic) or lunch and afternoons out, and then just chilling out for the day that is left. If they've been outdoors running around for hours, then I don't blame them for wanting to vegetate in front of the TV!

Kate!

Just a quickie as I once again lost a long post last night and cba with same again tonight... But Cerub, god that could have been me writing your lament, although it is marginally better now I think (mine are 6m older I think). I do exactly what Kate described, setting them up with an activity and making them think I'm playing too but sneaking off for increasing stretches.
It is very very trying for someone exceptionally selfish like myself. I genuinely feel I am entitled as a basic human right, to have half an hour minimum to get ready in peace in the morning and to have at least some bloody time to myself during the day. DH thinks I'm a monster.

Mucky

Weekend was good apart from getting snowed in. Final decision to be made by Tuesday... X

Oh did I mention mine have had chicken pox this week... Happy days!

Apologies for being AWOL too, I've been completely distracted this week organising H's 5th birthday party. 34 x 4-5 year olds. Was great at the party and all the kids had a fab time, but the preparations and clear up has been a massive amount of work!

Good to have you back mucky

Cheating that sounds seriously exhausting! How on earth did you entertain them all?! Bet she loved it.

Well I think DH is going to accept the job in Derby, which means a move to Sheffield, hopefully in the Spring. Haven't told anyone irl yet .
Bit unsure as to what we could get mortgage wise as we would initially be down to one salary (and a new job too which I know they don't like) so we might have to rent for a while and get better terms in a year or so... God it's all so complicated

Cheating!?!? CHESTI!

Congrats Tarti , come on then, budget and area search, let us loose on right move , do you have to tell the mortgage company the truth can't you say you are staying with relatives/commuting until you find a new job?

I have my dad up this week which is fun, he is a giant kid himself, spent half an hour earlier pretending to be a monkey
We have booked a family visit to Italy over Valentines, think it's about time we organised getting married! Just wish we'd done it years ago pre children, all seems like a lot of work now am tempted to run off on a family holiday to Hawaii and do it there and not invite anyone

Chesti 34 small children sounds brilliant!

Kate what if you get Dtrips again??? I am convinced if we ever try again I'll have triplet boys. You have a big house though don't you? And you always sound a lot more calm, patient and organised than me exciting!
I did the come off the pill and see what happens, 6 weeks later I was pregnant with twins!

Mucky How are things? The girls are looking so cute on FB! What happened with your thoughts on becoming an estate agent? Is the route back into TV, too inflexible. Difficult hours etc?

Last question - how do you wash paint out of children's clothes? The girls have only been at nursery 3 weeks blissful 6hours and their smocks are super stained

Hello everyone.

LVB - re. paint out of clothes, I have to say the stuff they used at the girls' first nursery was a nightmare and basically it got to the point where I'd send them in wearing stuff I really really really didn't care about. They looked like complete urchins. At the new place we've never had an issue with anything staining, so maybe it's all about what they're using? It used to drive me MAD that their clothes would be ruined like that...

tarti - that is indeed great news! You must be in shock :)

As for me, well, things are a bit calmer and the anger (on both sides) seems to have eased into sadness at what feels like an inevitable separation. We were meant to go to mediation this morning for our first appointment but we've postponed it and H is having a couple of days away to give us all some space. It is very hard work keeping things going, while dealing with all the emotions, and not letting it spill over with the girls. When I stop and think about it all in relation to them I get unbelievably depressed and sad . Both H and I are co-dependent extremely bad at ending relationships and find it all very painful, even if it's for the best. Obviously a lot is at stake, and the issue of what happens to the house (I want to stay living in it; he wants to sell) and the children (I want them to live with me with flexible and frequent contact with him; he wants 50 50 residency) are the main issues which could flare up and cause animosity between us. To say the least.

I hired a hall and a boucey castle for H's birthday. I wasn't mad enough to have that number of kids round to the house . Winter birthday's are the pits, more than about 5 kids (our house is tiny) you can't have round to the house cause you can't use the garden or anything. Hence the boys were born in May, got the timing right the 2nd time round

Cerubina, how are you getting on with getting out and about? When I was at home more with the kids (opposed to working every waking hour which I seem to be doing at the moment ) I used to go to tots groups. I know they can be really daunting at first, but I've now made some good friends, and they are generally safe places to take 2 toddlers.

Kate, hope everyting is going well with all your girls, but especially the two with health problems. How is your older girl (sorry can't remember her initial) getting on with her body cast? And how about E, have she any more energy? Is there anything alternative treatment apart from the stent they could try? Sorry, I know so little about her condition, but hope the consultants come up with some ideas soon. Do you have confidence in them? I got one well with the J's consultant for his cleft, but don't have so much faith in the hearing consultants.

Tarti Exciting about the move. For what it's worth it sounds like a good decision.

Mucky Sorry to hear things are stressful and upsetting. Don't really knwo what to advise. But keep giving the girls big hugs. How is DH's job hunting going? I know it's not the main problem, but if there was less financial worries it would help while you get through this transition.

LVB, No idea about the paint. When H was at nursery her clothes were always trashed with "water soluble paint" which never came out Fortunately the boys nursery seems to be more careful.

Lavita I'm not sure what the consequences of lying would be but I may look into it!
Thank you Chesti that is good to hear. I am a bit wobbly about it especially if we can't get a decent enough mortgage, although we could rent for a bit I suppose. Having our place valued at the weekend, will try and speak to our bank and a broker next week, then I should have a better idea of a budget!

Lavita re. Paint- I have given up and just send them in supermarket clothes or hand me downs. I was thinking the other day though that it seems to be getting a bit better of late, I think as they are getting a bit older they're being slightly more careful doesn't stop them shitting their pants of course

Mucky, so good to have you back. It is so awfully sad of course. I hope you manage to sort the best case scenario for living arrangements. There has to be a chance if you can keep talking. i can't possibly imagine the strain of having to hold yourself together for the girls. Was reading a thread about best advice you've ever had and one of the quotes that stayed with me was 'If you're going through hell, keep going'. Much much love to you xxx

Wow, Chesti, go you!! Imagine the fun you'll have if your boys end up in different classes & need to invite everyone!

No idea about paint Lavita. Our boys have always been freakily clean at nursery. They'd arrive there in a worse state than they come home at times . I did wonder if they ever actually did stuff with them. They do, but no idea how they keep them so clean. Other people send multiple clean sets of clothes but ours have never needed them prior to toilet training. Nursery girls were mortified last week when C covered herself in pasta sauce!

Good luck with your plans for the move Tarti! Must admit I feel slightly sick at the thought of being in your position of having to make the move. It does sound like it might be good all round though. Will have to try & see you in Feb when we're up otherwise you'll be gorn .

& in your position too of course mucky. I hope you & H are able to maintain an amiable relationship for all of you .

Things here ticking over. MInor battle in the war won tonight in getting C to sleep in her cot rather than transferriing her once asleep. Huge fuss, but a first. Had a bit of a week with her / sleeping cos she's under the weather / teething again & of course it's coincided with stressy stuff at work I've needed to plan for / work around. Still, my weekend has begun so I can forget it all for now.

W had an epic meltdown last night. Poor thing, it was funny to watch too. All because dp wouldn't let him open the car door cos he can't reach when strapped into his carseat. 90 mins of weeping & wailing then he took himself off to bed, calmed down then was totally fine & came down for cold dinner

& good luck Kate! Our `see what happens' approach had spectacular failure followed by spectacular success so hope for something in between for you! If I were a bit younger I'd be tempted too...

Thanks chesti - Isla is getting on really well and ended up having her cast off early! She's now got a Boston brace that can be taken off; it has 3 big velcro straps on the back and she even got to pick a pattern for the whole brace! It has amazing memory foam padding around her hips (which are quite prominent as she is only a diddy thing!) and also around her ribs (for the same reason). She's got to wear it for 23 hrs a day and has done brilliantly so far - no whinging at all. this is like I's brace - this shows the back of it. And I's is pink with tiny bunnies all over it!

Onto E - I told you all about the different consultant we saw before she was admitted? That was the 'last chance' before we took her to see someone privately because the previous consultant was the one who saw Emme deteriorating and just wasn't that bothered. He had absolutely no idea what was wrong and just suggested that we fed her more?! Anyway as it was, the new consultant was amazing and he got the real ball rolling. Only problem is that the brilliant 'new' consultant is quite old and has told us how is going to be retiring in the near future.. I am not letting E go back to the old consultant, and we cannot afford to let her fall behind again. I feel like we need to be pro-active and be on top of things before the new consultant retires and we are lumbered with this useless guy. We've been thinking about looking privately for a consultant - essentially we need to see someone more often anyway and the good consultant has already agreed that she needs to be seen more often but that he can't offer that as NHS is so busy. Have suggested it to some other mums who have just said that we are likely to get the same consultant, but we were more planning to see a few different consultants and see what we think? We are just a bit very worried with the long term side affects of hypoglycaemia; especially as she has started to go downhill again lately. Not particularly bad or anything significant, but I think I mentioned that she hasn't been 'right'.

Sorry that this has been a total 'me me me' post, we've just visited Dr Google and freaked out a bit.

Lavita re. the paint - do yours have Pre-school/nursery polo shirts? My girls do and I just put them in that (with an old long sleever underneath) and a pair of cheapy leggings. I will never ever put my girls in anything nice for pre-school - I know that ours has a huge problem with parents putting DC in designer clothes and then going mental because of stains. I have a few friends who have passed us on some hand-me-downs - often there are some very strange pieces, so mine often end up in very weird outfits!!

Ah that's really good news about I coming out of the cast early, Kate. She sounds like such a superstar for the way she deals with what must be uncomfortable things to wear so much of the time. Glad to hear you have more pro-activity from the consultant too; did you mention his colleague's lack of action and if so what did he say? Was he able to suggest any other peers in that specialism that he would recommend? Such a worry for you - I truly can't believe you have the energy for another child but you are amazing managing five, clearly made to be a mum!

Good to see you back mucky and to read that relations are a little less fraught, but like others said it really must be exhausting to process all that change and uncertainty with young children to maintain normality for as well. I echo the sentiment that I hope time is helping to make the way forward clearer and less painful to contemplate.

Planning a wedding sounds like fun to me, LVB, although when I did it it was certainly beneficial not to have toddler twins and to be doing it in the same country where we lived, so you have some challenges there. Will the in laws help research things, or would that be a mixed blessing? Which part of Italy will it be? Also no idea on paint removal, we have some splashes on clothes that don't seem to shift but I just relegate those clothes to nursery-only and try not to put them in stuff I care about. They're moving up to the toddler room soon where polo shirts are required uniform so I suppose the shirts will just get gradually grottier.

Also applauding your bravery in doing such a big party chesti. Does that mean H gets 34 reciprocal party invitations this year?! It'll cost you another fortune in birthday presents!

Exciting times tarti. It sounded to me as though this was a really good opportunity for your family, and I hope you get the finances and your own work situation clarified so you can get cracking on the lovely nosing round other people's houses...

Thanks for all chipping in with ideas about dealing with my urchins two. I feel like such a wimp for being indecisive and playing it safe on activities, I think it will probably help when the ground isn't quite so saturated so going outdoors is easier, and they get a bit more gung ho about playgrounds/soft play as they're quite timid about what they will try at the moment. But this is classic excuse-making by me, even now, and always feeling that "it'll be fine when..." means you never appreciate what they can already do! Argh.

Anyway, they're still driving me potty at times. The last two Wednesdays, there has not been a jot of lunchtime nap taken, meaning that there's more tiredness and no break which tends not to be a great combination. They are not ready to drop lunchtime naps, being 23 months, so I suppose I need to find the right time to try it and not do so before they're tired even though I'm bloody knackered by 10.30 .

And the boundary-testing..! I think my head would fall off in surprise right now if either of them put their coat on/shoes on/went upstairs/came downstairs/got into the buggy/laid down for a nappy change/bla bla the first time of asking rather than the 10th. It's so bloody wearing when every single activity all day long has to be negotiated x2 with intransigent little irrational people, especially when every individual thing is so bloody mundane but essential! (I'm well aware I'm starting to go on a bit now, and preaching to the converted, and indeed preaching to people who deal with it far more days a week than I have to...sorry).

I'm actually considering whether it would be better all round if I reverted to full time work and dropped the day off, since I do so little of value with them and find it tiring. The ideal would probably be them being full time at nursery and me still having a day off - but that might be difficult to fly financially! I haven't mentioned it to DH yet but need to figure out whether it would just be an avoidance tactic by me that I ought to front up to, as well as whether I would regret it later if they suddenly became easy to manage yeah right and whether full time work would be as enjoyable as knowing I'm never more than 2 days away from a day off as currently. Maybe I'd be swapping one draining day for another. And maybe I should STFU about essentially a pretty privileged set of problems.

Don't worry about moaning about it Cerub, I certainly have my moments like, every single day :)

I think the age S&R is at is hard. Last winter the girls were approaching two, so walking well but still falling over a lot and so going anywhere in winter meant massive mess. I bought them a pair of Spotty Otter fleece/waterproof suits which at least made getting ready to go outside in it a bit easier. But it just wasn't fun in the way that such things can be now, when you're not going WHOAH WHOAH WHOAH every time they go near a giant puddle which they might fall face first into, etc etc. (Or is that just me? )

I totally sympathise with wanting a day off with no kids and no work, I get some time like that and really really appreciate it. I also wonder whether knowing you have that one day means you place higher expectations on it than I would, knowing I have three of them. I'm trying to feel better about them just knocking around at home while I get things done, rather than feeling I constantly have to entertain them... which can into something of a rod for one's own back, I worry.

Right, off to bed soon. Have enjoyed some time to myself these past couple of evenings. :)

Cerub, I'd keep your day 'off' but is there a possibility of putting them in nursery just for an afternoon on that day maybe once every two or three weeks? I was talking to my mum about never getting any time to do anything in the house or just me time, and she suggested this, which had occurred to me before but her saying it made it seem more justifiable to me.

I mean justifiable in terms of cost, believe me I would have no trouble justifying to myself the idea of them being in nursery full time whilst I reclined on sofa eating peeled grapes if we could but afford it

Kate, as the others have said, I'm in awe of your talents (and, frankly, your enthusiasm) as a mother. And your lovely girls I and E with all life has thrown at them recently. I was telling someone about you the other day, realised halfway through I was not going to be able to explain where I knew you from... I think I got away with it!

Sadly our nursery is a bit inflexible on that score tarti and it has to be a regular, unwavering commitment each week so I don't think we could do that...my other thought has been to switch my day off from a frankly desert-like Wednesday to one when more people are around (subject to the nursery having room for them on Weds). It's really the lack of many things on or friends who are also off work on Weds that means I get a bit lonely/stuck in a rut. Shame though as actually Weds off is nice in terms of breaking up the working week.

It is a dilemma Cerub. They do change so much at the moment though so you might find them easier in the not too distant future, even if it does seem highly unlikely at the moment, but a bit of a risk if you're not going to enjoy it in the meantime.

I was its thinking today about how true it was when people say 'this too shall pass' but it doesn't feel that way. All of the sleep probs we had with the boys seem a lifetime away now & there were times I thought they would never sleep through. Yet we've had a year now where they've done just that. We've made the giant leap of getting c off to sleep in her cot this week & it seriously feels life changing. It was never an issue that she didn't as we accepted we would get to that point at some time, but lovely to know she's going over quickly in her bed 3 nights in, fingers crossed

Sorry, that was vaguely relevant in my head, but not really v helpful to you....

cerub What about having an afternoon commitment for just one twin each week? It would be a break in itself just having one and being able to go swimming or on a bike ride? I know someone with twins who does this to get some solo time with each twin

I still find my two hard work at 2.3 months, mine are gregarious, bossy, and both run in different directions, climb large objects etc within seconds of getting anywhere! I am grateful they have started nursery as I hate taking them anywhere on my own as I just can't keep on top of them
All my friends come here, which I feel guilty about. G only works 4 main days though so we just try to do things as a family on weekends and Wednesdays, I am looking forward to passing my driving test and Summer to try and get out more. Am maybe thinking I should properly give reins a go but they have humongous meltdowns and it is so tough with 2.
In our local paper there was a story of a lifeboat saving a woman and her daughter near us as the 2 year old had fallen in and she jumped in after. Another of my fears living so close to the river and the added worry that if you jumped in after one, and no one was about would the other be ok???. over active imagination/fears

Although we ha a hilarious morning again in Richmond park, we got about 5 meters in, giant puddle a la Peppa pig appears which they refuse to get out of. Lots of mud, splashing, dirty clothes, then F fell over, thankfully not face first. But I hadn't brought spare clothes and they were just in Wellies and normal clothes. Straight home, meltdown and bath, and breath!

Wine here hope that's a coherent post!

Lavita my absolute favourite thing is going round to friends' houses with the girls - none of the stress of trying to keep them calm in a cafe or whatever and you can actually have a proper chat - so I wouldn't feel guilty about having people over, I bet they all love you for it! I'm finding outings are suddenly, FINALLY, getting easier, so there is light at the end of the tunnel (providing they're not tired/hungry/don't poo their pants etc etc...). But being able to drive will solve a lot of your probs by the sound of it; if nothing else you will have the option of just strapping them in and driving round in circles until they fall asleep or you regain composure, whichever happens first!