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[ladymuckbeth]

Here we go. More unexpurgated chat about our darling angels, all of whom are gifted and have exceptionally calm and admirably-coping parents.

Hello Cerub :)

LVB I meant to say that the girls' previous nursery wanted to do a home visit, although didn't in the end because we were away on holiday and only finalised their start date just before they actually started. They also did one at the Montessori place they attended in Switzerland. I think it's just to see the children in their home environment, and get the chance to chat to you about their likes/dislikes/personalities, etc etc.

Cerub - that's great news about S&R's glowing reports! Start as they mean to carry on :)

We're just back from the girls' eye appointments, yet more check ups because they both have tendencies to close one eye a lot. Another excellent NHS appointment which I left feeling very thankful for. A fantastic doctor with amazing rapport with children - always makes such appointments so much easier to handle. I tend to dread appointments at the GP because very few of the doctors seem to have a clue how to get children to "perform" for them. It doesn't take much - just a squeaky toy or two... :)

Both girls are thick with colds, so it's not much fun at home this week. I also lost it with Eve last night and smacked her :( - the first time I've done that, and it left me deep in thought about what I think about smacking. I've never resorted to it yet, but didn't have a firm idea about how I felt about it one way or the other. It was quite measured, but a firm tap on the bum, and she started crying and left her room to sit at the top of the stairs (I had been trying to undress her for bed; both girls were in the room). The weird thing was that she sat there for one or two minutes while I started to read to Juliet, then came back into the room and said very clearly "Mummy I've come back in to tell you that I'm very sorry. Sorry Mummy"

Hi Cerub !
Huge welldone to S and R on their school reports - thats brilliant :)

I'm just going straight to the Christmas topic because I am far too excited!! Do not avoid toy kitchens - they give my DD's hours of fun!
DD1 is 6 and still happily plays with it. Its one of those 'toys' that whenever we have friends over, it is always the first thing they play with. Mine play 'restaurants' 'ice cream parlour' 'shops' - (put toy til on work top!) and sometimes they pull it out and get the Cosy coupes out and play 'Drive thru' McDonalds' - they pretend to open and close the little windows etc.
We are finding Xmas sooo hard this year - Dtriplets got scooters for their birthday, DD1 and 2 already have scooters - DD1 could do with a bike but isn't really bothered so not too keen on that. You've reminded me about maybe dolls pushchairs for DTrips - but not sure if we really need 3 of them?! Thinking about Innotab or similar for DD1/DD2
Do you all do xmas lists? We've never ever done them in our family and don't want to start now - my own mother didn't like the thought of us just writing down everything we wanted and asking for it, and I'm not keen on the idea either. Obviously, there are always things that DD's go on and on about, but I just say 'You'll have to wait and see what you get for Xmas'. I'd rather that they were just appreciative for what they get rather than the whole 'Oh mum, this isn't the one I asked for!'

Oh mucky what happened?
After an incident with DD2 we decided that we would never smack again. I'd never smacked her before but did it once because she had wound me up over something and I was unbelievably sleep deprived (no excuse!). She wasn't phased by it at all and barely noticed, which tbh made me more angry. At the time she was obsessed with playing with teddies, and I caught her on numerous occasions 'smacking' her teddies and saying 'you make me so cross!' which made me feel terribly guilty. It was quite obvious that she had associated anger with hitting out; every time she got cross she would just hit someone as she was clearly just copying my behaviour.
Personally I would steer well clear of smacking them for smacking someone else - it is incredibly confusing. If you do, does that mean hitting someone else is right? In their eyes, if mummy can do something then it must be right.
I also think that you run the risk of having no other option - say she is hitting you and you smack her, what happens if she doesn't stop hitting you? Do you then smack her harder? What if she still doesn't stop? You've then run out of ideas and are completely mad! DYSWIM?
My J constantly refuses to get dressed, but I think she used to quite like the attention she gets with the whole 'lets make it into a fun game' crap.. which just does not work in our situation with this. The first time she refuses, I get her PJ's, take her hand and take her onto the landing and tell her that once she has got dressed then she can come back in. I go back into their room, close the door and carry on as normal. Usually within a few minutes the door slowly opens and a little forlorn face comes around!
I hope I haven't turned this into a blinkin' smacking debate - is the last thing I want to do, but this is just my opinion and totally respect any one elses.

Hi!
Am so behind with all your news but must just mark my place so I can find you later when I will hopefully have a proper chance to catch up.
I had the bright idea if getting rid of their dummies tonight as they both have nasty rashes on their chins at the moment. So am now sitting at the top of the stairs listening to Maggie howl... It's like going back in time 18 months

Dunno how I feel about smacking if I'm honest. I have once done it (in absolute anger and frustration with M, not hard but they both just turned and looked at me in abject horror and then one said to me 'mummy NO HITTING' at which point I burst into hysterics). But to be honest I remember my mum smacking us on very rare occasions and I still was in no uncertain terms that me hitting other children or fighting or whatever, was wrong. I can see the apparent logic of the argument that it's confusing for them, but it wasn't my experience. It really was very rare though for us to get a smack.

God knows!

Big girls' beds getting erected tomorrow. Dreading it!

Also just to add that although our toy kitchen is an eyesore, they are now at the perfect age for it and it is our most played with item (although actually the tea set gives it a run for its money). We got a bag of plastic play food from John Lewis to go with it and they love that.

Can I just clarify I meant hysterical tears, not laughter (am not a total monster)

On the toy kitchen front, can I recommend getting one that's big enough for them to both play on at the same time? Ours is a little 'cosy' and it's led to many a dispute. Also although they liked it when they got theirs (for their 2nd birthday, I think) it's really come into its own as the imaginative play takes off (which has only been in past 4-6 months) so it could be left for a later purchase...

Cerub - your other ideas sound almost exactly what we were buying last Christmas. Table and chairs = good. Ours had lots of fun with Aquadoodle and of course it's a way of letting them draw without having to worry about mess which meant that practically it got used a lot more often. We bought something like this. Also musical stuff - we bought them a little toy keyboard which still gets used a LOT now, and they are getting more and more into music. This year they are getting a Leappad 2 each from my mother, which I'm a bit annoyed about in a way - she got them without really consulting me first. They have cameras on them though and I do think the girls are going to love using them and having something like that which is 'theirs'. Other than that I'm getting them a little doctor's kit and dress up outfit, possibly a bike, more musical instrument type stuff, poss with a little microphone... um... I'm sure there'll be more but I haven't bought one present yet - better get onto it!

Kate and tarti - thanks for your thoughts re. smacking. tarti - that's very interesting that you didn't confuse it between what you thought you should do as a child and what adults did. I also was smacked very occasionally as a child and to be honest always thought I deserved it I definitely did NOT feel good about having done it though and although I am not going to say "that'll never happen again" it's also not something I'm going to employ as a policy for the future. There are always other solutions, it's just that I'm going to accept I'm not anywhere near perfect.

We're off out today to see friends, meeting at a gastropub in Kew, so might pop into the Gardens first. We had a very drunken night out on Friday so yesterday was a total write-off - luckily both girls are getting over colds so we were all happy to have a quiet day at home.

tarti - good luck with the bed transition - have to say so far it's been a big success here but only because they're now refusing to nap in the daytime and are begging to be taken to bed at 6.45pm!

Also wanted to say we had our first trip to the local library on Thursday - what a success! Can't believe it's taken me until now to discover the delights of borrowing books for children - they can have up to 15 books EACH at any one time. We came home laden with a big pile and love the fact that in a week or two they can go and choose more - it's going to be a regular fixture, I can tell. :)

Sorry for quick thread high jack, but Cerub where did you get your front door from?
DP has decided he wants to order one tonight and I like to mull over decisions like this, help needed!!!!!

Late to it all but ha - we're lucky if our nursery communicate when we're there so home visits and parent evenings are a zillion miles away! Their new keyworker has asked that we let her know what we get up to of a weekend tho to help with her planning. I asked for similar ages ago so we could actually feel they were living one live rather than 2 seperate ones . Have bought them a little diary to record - might be nice to look at in years to come if nothing else.

Sorry you're giving yourself a hard time over the smacking thing Mucky. Similar to Tarti in that we were smacked but understood that it was the natural order of things and accepted it without question. Grown-ups can do things that kids can't. I don't agree now though & would like to think I won't do it. But accept the possibility that I might snap one day and will hate myself for it. I certainly feel murderous towards anyone my mum suggesting the boys might need a smack . Well done on the library - def a firm favourite here. Even if we do often come home with the same books we've just returned because they just can't see past the tractor / Winnie Pooh etc...

I keep changing my mind about what to get for Xmas. I originally thought bikes & then decided we'd save that for their birthday since it'll be spring / better weather & get them learning tablet type thing for xmas. But now erring towards getting bikes anyway as we will use them before it gets warm & they certainly have loads of energy to run off!

I had mentioned a wendy house thing from my parents but now unsure if I want another big thing hanging around. Kitchen would be good alternative though and would be entertaining to see reactions from GPs who only like reinforcing gender stereotypes. Dd was 1 yesterday and we bought Happyland which has gone down well all round. We missed that with the boys so we'll prob ask others to get some more of that. They are really just getting into imaginative play now so anything like that that isn't just another car or train would be good. & crafty stuff. & expand our DVD repertoire. Hopefully that will be it but I can see MIL embarking on a sea of pinkness for dd. I hope think my reaction to the first pink handbag suggestion was suitably negative to dissuade her from that..

Sounds silly but I'm really glad I've had a good old think about the smacking issue - as I say I'd not ever really thought about it before, but do now feel as though I've got a vague "approach".

Good to talk about the presents thing too. ALL will you be getting any individual presents for the boys? I think this year I might venture into getting them a few different things eg. am going to get Juliet a pair of binoculars (kiddy ones!) because she loves a throwaway pair we got in a magazine one time, but won't be getting one for Eve. Am quite nervous about it but also feeling good about 'validating' their individual personalities, if that makes sense. I MUST start doing some shopping, I keep having ideas for little gifts for them but not acting on it. Also think I'm going to get them a few more bits for the kitchen - eg. their own oven gloves (they love playing with mine) and aprons with their names embroidered on, etc etc.

Happy Birthday to C btw! I hear you re. the pink handbag situation - my mother has brought the girls princess dress up outfits and Minnie Mouse handbags for Christmas - I'm feeling a bit more relaxed about such things now but it must be 'interesting' for you having seen how pronounced the gender stereotyping is comparing your boys to what they want to buy for C.

Loving all the present chat. I'm not getting them much as feel I am drowning in toys already and with wanting to move in the new year I'm trying to minimise clutter but they will be well catered for by gps - my mum is getting them a lovely JL doll's house (actually I will have to furnish that...) and dh's parents, well god knows, but no doubt it will be plentiful and I will not be given right of veto

I've got them each a magnetic dress up doll which I bought in France in the summer, a book each and a DVD to share. Will do stockings with small tat in. I like your idea of different presents mucky, will ponder that one.

Oh and pjs

I don't think it's silly at all Mucky. & much better than using it as the discipline method because the thought of other strategies isn't considered. Another example of me being the odd bod in our family .

Yes, I'm definitely planning to get the boys their own things this year. Saying that, if we do go for bikes then they will probably be more `same' then ever before. We've always just bought 1 of things & made them share. But even if they are the same / similar they will each have ownership of a particular bike and that is new for us. I thought about getting one bike and a scooter or something but we decided 2 the same would be better. I'm doing seperate lists for each for the family. They do have different interests and really undestand ownership / taking turns & sharing so I think it's time!

Did you see the xmas pressie thread (chat??) a few weeks ago? Someone mentioned something to eat, wear, read, play'. We decided that was a good way to go. We don't want to buy lots of stuff either <span class="line-through">am determined they will be got a sack of ash & was grateful' brigade & I think that gives a good `structure' to buying. I am doing stockings too though & have bought choc money, Ice Age mug and a friendship bracelet thing each so far.

Funny about the right of veto Tarti. That was what MIL was seeking over the handbag thing. Was funny how she started so enthusiastic but by the time she'd finished telling me aaaaalllllllll about it, it was more of `who would buy such tat' . Then she said she'd just give us money & we could buy. Felt a bit bad at that point. Thing is, the children do love the tat pressies she buys them but I do wish she wasn't so fixed in her gender stereotypes. & though she clearly adores the boys, she is v v v excited at being able to buy for a girl.

I'm going to have to swot up on Hello Kitty & try to overcome my hatred of it. C got a couple of things with it on for her bday - including the emergency bday cake dp bought .

Did you eventually get the all clear after your pneumonia Tarti? Keep meaning to ask...

Aw thanks ALL yes finally, after 5 months, had last ray two weeks ago which was all clear thank god.
Am with you on the gender stereotyping hatred, although my two increasingly do gravitate more towards dolls, babies, kitchen, dressing up etc rather than the trains, cars type stuff which we have also always had for them. Not that they don't enjoy playing cars etc but slightly more so the girly stuff as time goes by. And as I was doing Rose's hair the other day and was trying to steer her towards turquoise hair bobbles to match her top she said 'no, my having pink cos my a GIRL' with a daft grin which suggested she was parroting something she had heard at nursery somewhere

Tried a new soft play place today with some friends. I like to mix it up y'know - crazy, me

Wow, that is good news then tarti.

I get a bit stuck on softplay when we find a good one but tried a new one last week too. Was really fab, not least cos I was allowed on too. Unfortunate a fair distance away but we're going to go again & make a day of it.

Dec train preference here & without prompting from us. C is already a pro at scooting along pushing cars & trains too - far earlier than the boys. We have teasets & shopping stuff they like but nothing really overtly pink and girly. Do both like the pink beakers & bowls we have. MIL doing a good.job of.teaching them. Nail varnish /,pink / dolls are for girls. Aargh. I sometimes object but never going to change her mind...

Poorly ds2 in with us:-( All been loaded with cold again but he woke earlier wailing & his neck / ear seemed.sore.to tje touch. He's had max meds so hope he's asleep for a while yet. Just waiting for C to wake - cosy night ahead

Great news tarti. Am also loving the present talk. I must must must get on with it, great little ideas for stocking fillers ALL. I also don't want to get them much (and if possible want to sneak out some of their old toys while they're asleep). My Ebay mission continues unabated - currently selling a big old sofa which we have in storage at the moment and I am GLUED - 45 watchers after just one day and already 9 bids. It's an old Heals sofa (which I actually bought 2nd hand on Ebay to take to Switzerland) so it was worth quite a lot new not that I'd ever pay it and I'm actually nervous it's going to go for too much money because it's a bit tatty and I live in eternal fear of someone having a go at me for misrepresenting the condition of the item. Phew, me nervous much?

tarti - how did Operation Big Beds go? :)

I'm in the throes of planning a party for the girls birthday. I've bought them party dresses, very excitingly for them, and I'm just hoping a few people will be kicking around as it's the weekend before Christmas and full-on party season (for those who have an actual social life). So far a lot of people can't make it.... hopefully as long as there are a few people here and we have balloons and cake, the girls will think it's the best thing in the world EVAH. They are already telling everyone they're going to have 'the biggest party in the WHOLE WORLD' and inviting all and sundry at nursery.

ALL - what was the thing on the chat thread about something to eat/wear/play (re. Christmas pressies)? I did look occasionally on that thread but it was all a bit fast-moving and overwhelming for a Chrimbo-phobe like myself.

Anyone into interiors, I'm thinking of asking for this Abigail Ahern interiors 1 day course as my Christmas present from DH... just thought I'd mention it in case anyone else would be interested... am desperately trying to up my game and bring our house into the vague realms of Grown-up-ness.

I think it's

Something they want
Something they need
Something to wear (or might be eat?!)
Something to read

Hope ds2 ok ALL?

That Abigail Ahern day looks fantastic mucky. I would be very tempted although should really wait until we've saved up to buy an actual half decent fucking house before indulging...

How's the house hunt going?? Are you decided on the area, have you been scouring those Ofsted reports yet? God it made my head explode when I was trying to think about schools + possibly thinking ahead to big schools + being near a station or on a good commuting line and did the station have a car park if it was too far to walk and could you park your car and get a seat on the train + houses being good value when we were looking in Kent that time... getting palpitations just remembering back...

And what about the beds tarti - come on!! I've just been upstairs to retrieve Eve who has fallen out of her bed twice in one evening (first time she's ever done that). Methinks illness approacheth...

Hmm it certainly makes bedtime a little more interesting doesn't it! The first couple of nights they were ok but yesterday and today they had had lunchtime naps and it was impossible to get them to stay in their beds - 9pm I think it was before they finally fell asleep.
To be honest I'm so busy at work I've not been focusing on any of it too much, we've got a mini ofsted inspection tomorrow and Friday, after which I will calm down and focus on being a mother again!

Hmm ofsted reports - I haven't looked in as much detail as I would like but the four or five possible ones in the area we like are all fine and have what I would rather shamefacedly call a 'nice' intake - I don't give much credence to ofsted ratings ( good/outstanding etc) but the small print can be very revealing so I must have a more detailed look. House hunt is on pause really until after Christmas. Am being good with money until then. To quote J & E, it's BOOOOOOORIN!!

Forgot - also bought a (toy) Henry Hoover a couple of weeks ago too. Maybe our real vacuum cleaner will be given a break... Sure the boys would love an iron too. We do v little ironing here but, from the little J has seen, he's determined there must be wheels on the bottom of the iron and won't be convinced otherwise . Then again, a wheel-less toy iron will, no doubt, be `broken'.

Yes - that could be it Tarti. I thought it was supposed to be some Victorian tradition but, after a quick google, maybe not. Vaguely French perhaps? I know at the time my head read it as: PJs, book, chocolate, toy = sorted.

& yes - BEDS??! We were going to do it weekend before last but didn't get round to it. Should be this weekend providing dp gets the wardrobes fixed to the walls & I get the second duvet cover finished. I was told recently that the cotbed will hold my weight OK for sitting reading / lying if nec so that is a big positive for me. Then if we have a night like last night I can just lie with ds.

Good luck with Ofsted. So much stress for such a pile of poo..... Think we're safe for a little while longer unless I've missed something in my absence. I'm going in next week to get info so I can start planning for my return. I feel unclean already....

Ds2 seems OK today if we ignore the ever-present cold / cough. He slept in with us last night (that'll be me, dd and ds2 alonf top of bed and dp along the bottom of bed ). He woke a couple of times through the night and was really quiet / tearful this morning. I really did not expect him to be at nursery today but he perked up after calpol first thing and was fine thereafter - phew! Touching his ear / neck area caused him to wail so I was expecting a full-on ear infection thing

Ha, it is boring. I am having to be good with money too

The more I ask and read around, the more I realise that Ofsteds are to be taken with a pinch of salt. The school nearby which only has a 'satisfactory' stamp on it is the one all the parents rave about, whereas the one at the bottom of the road is marked as outstanding and yet people would rather eat their own heads than send their kids there.

That sounds good re. the beds. Unlike me, you didn't turn it into a massive mountain of a problem before you even started.

Speaking of those kinds of issues, we are still nowhere near achieving potty training. I have developed a phobia of it, and we are further away from success now than we were 6 months ago. Neither girl will go on the toilet, Juliet who used to delight in showing us her skills in that department, refuses to even go on the potty. I appear to have missed the window. If I didn't have to be careful with money I'd be tempted to hire a nanny for a week and go on a yoga retreat while she tackles the problem on my behalf. I'm such a twit.

Mwahahahah - tis the thread killer here!

Eek. I have just listed our sofa to sell on Ebay. I am addicted. Soon we will have no furniture and will be sitting on boxes of an evening...

Went on the London cable cars today. Have to say the girls continue to drive me utterly potty at the moment - they are ill, not eating, and are the grumpiest children known to man.

Have also had half a bottle of wine a chat with my SIL about Christmas, which is bringing me out in hives already. She is OBSESSED with it, and delighted in telling me that my DN has "written a letter to Father Christmas" (she is 2 weeks younger than the girls, why oh why does she need to show off - and it is showing off because she spends every waking moment hothousing her child) asking for X,Y, and Z. I am already dreading getting the card from them which has perfectly looping child's writing signing off DN's name. Grrr...

ALL - I now want to know exactly what you wrote about Ofsted in your lost post...

Lol at your sil mucky

I am sooooo tired. Endless day today with not even the reprieve of a nap time (doesn't seem to work now they're in beds) )