I'm dying to grass up the benefit cheats living next to me but..

[ssd]

..dh won't let me as they have 3 kids and he feels its unfair on the kids

they are the laziest young couple I've ever met, she told me she can't afford to work as she is getting so much paid for her by claiming to be a single mum, but her partner (kids dad) work on the side so they have that money coming in too

they seem to spend all their money on takeaway deliveries, about 3 a week, but sod all on their kids who come chapping my door every day trying to get in to play with our toys, and probably for a feed as they get their takeaways about half nine at night

we both work here, I'm part time on minimum wage and she actually told me what she "clears" a month and with income support, job seekers and rent paid she's better off than us bith working

I'm heartily sick of seeing them swanning about, she always seems to have new clothes and their car is much better than ours, her mu mtakes the kids at weekends so they can go out and party, she told me they can afford to go out every Sat and they lie in bed all Sunday till the kids are delivered back to them

I'm so bitter, I'm sick of the injustice

should I go ahead and tell social services and let dh go mad or just let them live their dishonest life and shut up? I really don't know what to do

I'm not telling you what to do at all daftpunk!
In the situation you describe, the woman might well be better off getting a job to show her children the positives of having a stake in society. To show that there is an alternative to living on benefits while your children run wild doing drugs....

But I am not telling you what to do at all! I simply pointed out that there are dangers in each of us subjectively deciding which laws we choose to ignore.

I've noticed that with some of the recent high profile stabbings, and that shooting of that poor young boy a year ago, the police can often be very close to charging someone but are blocked by witnesses closing ranks and refusing to cooperate. I'm sure these people feel justified in their misplaced loyalty - they probably hate the police and have all sorts of reasons to not shop people.
And yes, I know murder is not the same crime as fraud, but it's all a spectrum isnt it? Once we begin deciding who we will and won't shop, it's a slippery slope.

Actually, findtheriver, I don't feel any sympathy for the fat cats, but I am sorry for MNers whose husbands have lost their jobs and for the ordinary people in the City, as I said earlier - receptionists, secretaries, post room workers. People in IT weren't earning huge bonuses, either.

It's a coherent policy - wouldn't dob in someone I suspected was claiming benefits they weren't entitled to, wouldn't start a thread attacking City workers because a. it would be insensitive to some fellow MNers and b. there are some honest people who weren't making millions and have lost their jobs.

I'm not into being spiteful, full stop. And that applies to rich and poor alike. Can't help a bit of private schadenfreude over the rich who are being brought down to earth, but wouldn't start a thread about it.

Let he who is without blame cast the first stone.

Fair enough then edam - I was just a little confused about why you complained that there weren't any threads on something you aren't prepared to start a thread about yourself.

I feel no sympathy for the fatcats either. They have spent years living lives of quite grotesque excess through milking other people. I do agree that I feel sorry for those losing their jobs, particularly the ones who were never highly paid, the admin, support staff etc.

But I also feel no sympathy for people who claim benefits fraudulently. Just because they may be at the other end of the spectrum does not make cheating ok. They are taking money away from the things that it should be spent on - education, health service, benefit for genuine claimants etc

findtheriver..i'm from brixton originally, iv'e lived near these estates where crime and benefit fraud are a normal way of life.
these people have nothing. in most cases the father is absent.the mum is struggling on her own and probably on drugs herself. they have a shit life. i coundn't grass them up. i feel sorry for them. it's a complete myth that people on benefits have an easy life (ok..maybe a few do) but for the majority it's a daily struggle.

'You only get stuck at the bottom of the pile if you are happy to stay there. And actually job hopping is the best way to get a better paid job and I believe this applies from minimum wage job upwards to senior levels...

if you're working hard and not getting anywhere then you need to be proactive about that...assuming you want to progress that is. I think if you are stuck at the bottom of the pile you either don't want to progress or it hadn;t crossed your mind that you could! '

I could respond to this, but I won't because it won't be pleasant.

All I can say, cd, is that your words may well and very soon come back to bite you in the arse, especially if your plans to avoid repossession fall through.

also, FYI, if you think the rich pay the same porportion of tax the working poor and middle earners do you really are so far beyond clueless it's almost a lost cause.

by daftpunk on Sun 21-Sep-08 09:47:54

"so true edam...it all boils down to resentment that the poor are getting a few extra pounds their probably not entitled to."

this must be the most condescending, frustrating post I've ever seen on MN and I've been here 5 yrs

daftpunk, I am the poor you are refering too, but we are the working poor ANGRY that the non working but able poor are living a fanancially better off life than mine

you can stick your lofty attitude where the sun don't shine

I don't agree with everything cd says, but in fairness, it is true that some people are happy with the level they are at and don't want to go any further, and there shouldnt be any shame in admitting that.

I employ among my dept two people who are as well qualified as I am, but they have chosen to stay at a much lower status because they don't want the pressures that go with my job.

It's not a problem for them, because it's a proactive choice. In contrast, a girl who has now left my dept was also highly qualified and during the time she worked for me, became increasingly negative and whiney about her low pay and feelings of being 'underemployed'. At her review, I was quite upfront with her that she had a choice - either stay at this level or make the decision to take more pressure and move up.

we're a working poor family, too.

and i'm just as angry at fat cats who rip people off as i am with benefits cheats. benefits cheats make legitimate claimants targets for misplaced anger, take the piss out of the welfare system and ultimately are going to make it very hard for people who actually need to claim.

that's really where i'm coming from at the end of the day when it comes to having no qualms grassing cheats.

but there are never going to be enough senior posts to fit the desires of those on the bottom rung of the ladder who do want to move up

daftpunk...so if you were aware of someone claiming benefits, when they could work, and they were well off and able to afford all the luxuries the rest of us can't afford...you still wouldn't report them?

FAQ - no there aren't. Which is why there is an element of competition for them. That's the way life is. If I want to move up from where I am now, then I will have to prove myself - get myself the best prepared I can be through hard work, additional training etc - and even then there's no guarantee I'd get it - there might be other people who are the best fit for that job.

At the end of the day, the world doesnt owe us the exact kind of living we'd like. I'd love to sit at home writing novels - unfortunately that doesnt pay the bills. All you can do is take your education seriously, make the most of the opportunities that come your way and work your hardest to get the life you want. And if that means doing a job you don't particularly like for a while then that's the way it is - I've certainly done my share of shite jobs!!

In response to why am I on benefits - because I split with my husband earlier this year.

I have 2 in school (one just started - so part time atm) and a 15 month old at home.

I intend to stay on benefits until DS3 starts nursery or school. Even then it's going to be hard finding a job that I can get childcare to fit around - we have just 2 school holiday clubs in our town - which are over subscribed and extremely difficult to get places in. Other than there's nothing for DS1's age. I don't drive - so won't be able to drive half way across town picking-up/dropping at at 2/3 different childcare places.

The majority of work round here is shift work, again incredibly difficult to fit childcare around, or night shift (impossible when you're on your own) - or you need a driving license and your own car.

Hopefully by the time DS3 starts school there may be more holiday childcare options for older children - but I@m not holding my breath.

ftr...you talk a lot of sense. I just hope I will be able to find the confidence that I have lost by being at home for so many years, being 'Mum', in order to get back on the career ladder again. I gave up a job I absolutely adored to stay at home and bring up my daughters. I made the decision to stay at home and I'm glad I did but now is the time when I must get back to where I was before - pre-kids...daunting thought, yes I'm scared but I've got another 25years worth of work left to go yet and I want to put it to good use. And, in any case, our mortgage is due to go up, everything is going up and I'm sure the bank manager would like it that I go back to work!

of course there's an element of competition - but if (and the other 100's of applicants for the same "better" job) don't get it - you're stuck in a dead end job with no real prospects of climbing the ladder.

You can be as determined as you want - but if you're fighting against 100's of other people with the same experience/qualifications as you for a limited number of jobs there will ALWAYS be people that get left at the bottom - not through lack of trying.

FAQ...it is people like you that, imo, without doubt, deserve every penny you can get. It's the likes of those who can work (kids at school) and choose not to that give those who are in genuine need a bit of a bad name!

I agree with you FAQ - and it can be really tough if you are doing all the right things and still not seeming to get anywhere. But at the end of the day, I think a lot of it does come down to having a 'glass half full' attitude. Now that I am in the position of employing people, I really try to look beyond the paper qualifications etc - i am more impressed by life skills and determination and a positive outlook than someone who has jumped through the right hoops. I take my responsibility of appointing people really seriously - I know how much getting the job will mean to each candidate.

whispy - I'm sure that with your determination to get back into the working world, you will get there - it may take time, but you clearly have the drive.

My personal situation could easily have gone in another direction. We hit the low point when I fell pg with dc3 unexpectedly, and suddenly found ourselves paying nearly all my income on nursery fees. I was very tempted to give up work as it was soul destrying at times to work so hard and then hand over most of my salary to the nursery. The other HUGE issue as others have pointed out, was when dc1 started school and suddenly the childcare got harder - cheaper, but far more complicated, as we suddenly needed childcare from 8 am til start of school and from 3.15 onwards. We lived in a village with no CMs. There was no after school club either. DH and I decided to get together a committee and set one up. I have mentioned this on other threads - so apologies if I am repeating. It was a HUGE amount of work and I would not recommend it to anyone except as a last resort. We had to apply for grants, employ play leaders (god, the legislation involved there....) fundraise etc - and we did all this alongside both of us working and having 3 young children. But there was no alternative - we had no family nearby, no other options other than one of us give up work.

I just want to point this out, because DH and I come from very ordinary backgrounds - state schools etc - and at times it has been a real struggle. But I do believe that some people create the biggest barriers themselves. If you don't want to work, you will always find a reason why shouldnt. I could easily have packed it in when my eldest started school and there was no childcare available. A lot of it comes down to having a 'can do' attitude.

Can I just echo what FAQ has just said about how difficult it is to find a suitable job when you're on your own.
I've just gone back to work after 7 years on benefits. I went to college for 8 months when DD was just 4 but it didn't work out at all. DD wasn't happy, I wasn't happy and I realised the course I was doing was training me for a lifetime of working in Thomas Cook. It's not the sort of travel I'm remotely interested in so I gave up.
I started looking for a job this time last year, when DD started P2 and it's taken until 3 weeks ago to find something that will leave me better off, and that fits in with CM hours.
It's part time in a coffee shop so no chance of climbing the ladder.
The ladder doesn't exist!
I am enjoying it, although I found out something on Friday that's made me nervous but that's probably for another time.

I don't regret my years on benefits, I wanted to be there for DD, I have no family or friends to help out so it really is just the two of us.
The big cars, nights out and holidays are a myth though, I struggled to keep a warm home (well, I failed at that) and to keep enough food in our tummies.
Everything we have is either a gift or second hand, new things just don't happen in this house!

now - there are many things I'll try my hand at (taking "advantage" of my benefits status to start a degree with the OU next February) - and I'll get involved with lots of stuff - but setting up something like that is not something I can do. I'm not being a glass half empty person - I simply do not have the skills/organisation required to do that

I don't have a car (can't drive so would be an utter waste of money) - I have had nights out (but I didn't pay ), and I did go on holiday this year (paid for from money left to me ).

My DS's have new stuff - I go without to facilitate this (although may have to buy some more boots as the heels on them have become so badly worn that I've nearly slipped badly twice in 2 days ) - but that's down to hang-ups I have from my childhood when my parents did have the money - but didn't spend it on things that would even make us partly fit in - and I was bullied terribly all the way through school until I was 16 - left me with self esteem issues which still frequently rear their ugly head - something I'm doing my best to avoid for the DS's.

Yesterday I felt ok about my choices, DS1 had 5 friends over for his birthday "party" - it was PS2 marathon basically. Yes he friends talked about their Wii's, PS3's, Xbox360's and commented that he "only" had a PS2 etc - but they were all very [ impressed with how many games DS1 has. (the fact that they've been accumulated over a long period of time - and are the £3.99 ones that aren't the latest releases was irrelevant to them)

And now I must get on with ironing - or my DS's will be going ot school tomorrow in their PJ's lol

thanks for your words of encouragement expat

if we do get repossessed then we'll pick ourselves up and get on with it. I won't be moaning about not being able to find a job around the children because you create your own opportunities.

agree with what findtheriver says....

and i'm not saying that everyone should be in senior positions at all but that a shit dead end job can lead to better things if you look for the opportunity and what your options are.

its the difference between making excuses and making plans

LOL.

I heard so much of that in America, a place whose economy has gone completely tits up.

so what are the other options for the working poor??

going on benefits and lying about your circumstances?

staying in shit job forever and getting bitter abiut those who have done the above?

or try to make your way onto better things?

ssd - is she quite open about the fact she claims benefits for being a single mum when she isn't? if you do it anonymously could it be anyone who has grassed her up or would she know it was you? if the latter i might be a bit less likely to do it.