Not sure what to do

[Hotchoxolate]

Hi everyone
having seen similar threads, I have decided to pluck up the courage to post to ask for advice.
My husband supports his elderly Mum with a range of things one of those things being managing her money. He holds power attorney for her however she still has capacity but just generally struggles to manage things and gets very very stressed and flustered.
She is in quite a fortunate financial position with lots of money saved. DH managers her day-to-day banking takes her shopping helps her withdraw cash when she needs it and does all of her online banking which he is unable to do.
She has been very generous with us and other members of the family and as always said that she’s happy to help but would that be as an interest free loan or a gift. She is a worrier and get stressed if she thinks any of us are Struggling.
so my issue is that DH will sometimes borrow money from his Mums savings account which he will then later Repay without speaking to her about it first. He doesn’t build it. This is an issue. It’s not me that she touches and it’s only ever taken as a loan which He either repays when he gets paid or over a couple of months.
If he asked her, I have absolutely no doubt that she would agree to lend him the money however he says that he doesn’t want the stressy conversation and for her to be worried
I know that he Repays is it and that there is no permanent loss but how big a deal is this? I can’t help but feel uncomfortable with it and that he could lead to consequences for him.

He’s stealing.

That’s my concern. Does the fact it’s repaid make any difference?

No.

Why doesn't he just get a credit card.
What does he need the money for.

He is abusing poa. Either she has capacity to make decisions or not.

This is a serious abuse of PoA, OP. Even if he has paid it back. He needs to stop immediately. It is a breach of his fiduciary duty.

Not an issue at all from moral perspective. He just doesn't want to worry her. I'd support your DH rather than post on here.

It is an issue from a legal perspective though, he’s abusing his POA.

This is abuse of the POA which is a criminal offence under the Fraud Act 2006- fraud by abuse of position.

This is really bad, he’s robbing her and abusing her trust, I don’t know how you can be with someone stealing off their own mother ans abusing the trust she put in him, how shameful,

Morally it’s also repugnant, not wishing to worry her is no justification for theft, and we’ve only his word he repays it.

What he's doing is illegal. It needs to stop immediately. If he can't manage his own money he should not be managing that of his mother.

Disgraceful and entitled at best but ultimately its theft.

You and your husband are like my disgusting siblings.

@HotchoxolateYea it’s a breach of his fiduciaries duties as POA and also could be fraud by abuse of position or theft, even if he returns it. Are you sure he actually is returning it? It could get really messy when she passes away and there are other beneficiaries under the will. Does he have any siblings? Tell him your worried he could get into serious trouble and that if he does genuinely need to borrow money from her in future he needs to ask and have her document it in writing (to be honest that could even be challenged if she isn’t well/ is elderly and vulnerable). Direct him to that recent legal case where the woman went to jail for taking an agreed amount out of her mother’s estate in exchange for acting as her carer

How much is he stealing op? It’s obviously a lot if he’s taking a couple of months to pay it back, if indeed he does. Is he just helping himself with her card?

It's not stealing, there's no intent to permanently deprived her of the money.

It absolutely is abuse of POA, he should stop immediately.

Why are you often short of money? It sounded very temporary so surely you can both be frugal for a couple of months then not get in this position again. What is your solution that doesn't involve taking his parents money without permission?

This is the type of thing my ex mother in law was doing as POA with her own mother.

She took out thousands in interest free loans and kept it secret from her brother and sister even when she knew both were struggling financially.

A horrible horrible woman who looked down on people whilst ultimately abusing her own mother and stealing.

Taking money or anything without permission is stealing.

To me that’s theft and an abuse of his responsibility as POA. Why is he needing to take the money to begin with?

As someone said, if he can’t manage his own finances, he shouldn’t be managing those of his elderly mother.

Husband needs to stop now, before he starts taking larger amounts and taking longer to repay his mother, or worse still, not at all!

The PP was right, the legal definition of theft is
’intention to permanently deprive’, so this isn’t theft. It’s legally and morally wrong, but not theft if he’s paying the money back.

If he did it to you how would you feel?

Hes a thief.

Morning everyone, so yesterday evening we went to visit his mum to have a conversation that needed to be had.

I insisted on being present, so I pottered around in the kitchen whilst he spoke to her however I could hear every bit of the conversation very clearly.

He explained to his mum that he had borrowed money from her account a couple of times but that it had always been paid back and explained that I was unhappy with it and it made him think that he needed to have a conversation with her about it.

she wasn’t bothered at all and told him that if it hadn’t have already been paid back, he could’ve just kept it. It was the reaction I expected from her to be honest and in some ways I’d preferred her to have been a more annoyed with him.

it was agreed that it ever he needs to borrow money in the future he will speak to her about beforehand She did say that she’s happy for him to borrow as and when he needs to however that definitely isn’t going to be happening as far as I am concerned unless it’s an absolute disaster emergency.

as annoyed with him as I am, I do believe that this was an error of judgement on his part and I don’t for one minute but my husband is a bad man. I do understand people strong views though over his actions.